Diana DeGarmo joins Case and Sam to cuddle some teddy bears… I mean, go on a D&D adventure with some Ewoks!

Find Diana at her Website, Twitter, or Instagram!

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Transcription

(AI Generated. Subject to Error)

00:02
Case
This podcast is in the blue. This podcast is in the blue. Don't worry about.

00:04
Sam
No, I know. I curse all the time on this. I am constantly dropping f bombs.

00:09
Case
No, I know you know this. I'm saying it to Diana, right? No, you referred to Bill Murray as a twat last time.

00:17
Sam
Yes.

00:19
Case
Welcome to certain point of views. Another pass podcast. Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review on iTunes. Just go to certainpov.com dot. Welcome to another past podcast. I am case Aiken, and as always, I am joined by Sam Alicea.

00:35
Diana Degarmo
Hello.

00:36
Case
And today we are journeying into a weird space of Internet fandom. It's gonna be quite the conversation, because today we are talking about Caravan of courage and Ewok adventure, the made for tv movie that has a lot of infamy, especially on a network that has a lot of Star wars conversations going on. But to do that conversation about a weird Star wars property, we are joined by Diana Degarmo.

01:03
Diana Degarmo
Hello.

01:03
Sam
Hello.

01:06
Diana Degarmo
Ewok Teddy Bear fan in the house.

01:10
Sam
Agreed. I don't like the Ewok slander.

01:14
Case
Diana, thank you so much for coming on. Now, this is, I think, the first time I'm actually chatting with you directly, as opposed to just sort of like, social media posting since we worked together on the Toxic Avenger musical.

01:25
Diana Degarmo
I know that was just a couple years ago, right? Just a few. It feels like yesterday and also eons ago, but, yeah, it's been so long.

01:33
Case
Yeah, yeah. A long time. However, since the toxic avenger musical, which is now a goddamn decade out, you have done a lot of stuff. So do you want to give some quick plugs?

01:44
Diana Degarmo
Oh, golly. Well, things are going swimmingly until, you know, the spring of 2020. But lots of tv shows and other Broadway shows. I got married. I now live in Nashville, Tennessee, with my husband, and we love living here. We've been here a little more than we would have expected over the last 17 months, but excited that our stages are reopening. And finally we've gotten the chance to do a lot of fantastic virtual work, ironically, through all of this, which we would never have ever expected prior to 2020. So that's been a pleasant surprise. And now I'm ready, itching and ready to get back up on stage like so many other performers.

02:24
Case
Right? It's great watching all my theater friends who, as things are sort of reopening and then kind of shifting back into gear, like, being like, oh, right, I have to go to an audition, or, oh, right. Like, we're starting to plan out, like, a production and like, oh, how's the weather going to be for this, like, outdoor, like, stage production? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, we have to think about those things again after being used to just. Yeah, we're going to do a Zoom call. It's good.

02:47
Diana Degarmo
Yeah. Planning flights, like, actually having a schedule.

02:50
Case
So it is really nice, though, that technology's gotten to the point where we can keep working even when we have these kind of, like, world reshaping kind of things. But it's also very nice that people are starting to get vaccinated and that we can kind of go back outside and, like, hang out and see people.

03:04
Diana Degarmo
Yes. I don't know.

03:06
Sam
Okay. I'm okay with not seeing people, but I'm also an introvert, so I'm like, see people? What am I going to use in this excuse now? Oh, God.

03:17
Diana Degarmo
I like to see my people and I like to pay my bills. So, like, you know, a little bit.

03:22
Sam
That's fair.

03:22
Diana Degarmo
That is fair. But I have not minded being home because, you know, the year prior to this, my husband and I were home a whopping 24 days out of the entire year of 2019.

03:32
Case
Oh, my God.

03:32
Diana Degarmo
Wow. And so to go from that to. We have not gone anywhere except just recently went on a trip for a vacation. That's the first time we've for our wedding, and that's the first time we've left our house since March of 2020. So that felt good. And hopefully the next trip will be out for a contract going to St. Louis. Woo hoo.

03:53
Case
Oh, cool.

03:53
Sam
Yeah.

03:54
Case
Is this something you can talk about or.

03:56
Diana Degarmo
Oh, yeah. Well, you know, that's funny. Cause equity had not said it. They had not cleared the contract up until about ten days ago. So, you know, we had a little bit of question of whether or not it was actually gonna go through. But I'll be doing always Patsy Klein in St. Louis at St. Louis stages.

04:14
Sam
Oh, lovely.

04:15
Diana Degarmo
So I'm excited to go out there and hang out, sing my idol's music for nine weeks, and then see where life takes me from there.

04:22
Case
That's awesome. I mean, make sure to send us the info for what the link to so we can put it in the description.

04:27
Diana Degarmo
Yeah, absolutely.

04:28
Case
Cool. Because that's fantastic. It's always nice to get back out there after being away and seeing your friends. Like old friends, like perhaps Wicked of the Ewoks.

04:37
Sam
Oh, wicked. Wicked is the best. I will take no wicked slander.

04:46
Case
So this is a weird movie to talk about in general because it's just like a little backstory for those not familiar with the podcast network it's called certain point of view as a Star wars reference. And it started off because it was a Star wars show that one of the most contentious debates between the hosts was about the virtue and value of the ewoks. And it's fun for us to have this chat now because I ended up really liking this movie.

05:08
Diana Degarmo
Yay. It is. It's so huggable and squeezable and cheery and heartfelt. And it starts off as this, you know, it feels more like a fairy tale to me than, like, really like science fiction. But jumping in and seeing they're getting to really live on indoor and be there because, you know, usually you just kind of jump in and jump out. You don't get to spend time there, but to.

05:35
Sam
But to see the Ewok world and.

05:38
Diana Degarmo
How they've come together, it just. It's so sweet. There are some choices made that were questionable. You know, our leading man, Mace, which, by the way, you know, case, my husband's name is Ace. Character's name is Mace. We were watching the show or watching the movie, laughing, just like, how many more ace? But, yeah, we'll throw in a.

06:03
Case
Chase and a brace somehow.

06:06
Sam
There we go.

06:06
Diana Degarmo
Yeah, he.

06:08
Sam
He makes some.

06:09
Diana Degarmo
I don't know if he made those choices or if their director made some choices for him, but he was coached in a very interesting way. And when you start to see, yeah.

06:17
Case
Mace made some face.

06:19
Diana Degarmo
He did all the faces.

06:21
Sam
Mace was a jerk. He was a jerk. Yes. Like, let's not, like, okay, I don't know if it was script. I don't know if it was the acting. It was a young kid. So, you know, we're not going to take that away from Eric. But I will say Mace was a jerk.

06:35
Diana Degarmo
He's so mean to the ewoks. Like, from the moment right out of the gate, he's just, you know, at first you get it. Maybe he's scared. Okay, I can go with that. But then it just never lets up. And then you start to see where they have clearly edited in some nice moments, because all of a sudden, he's like, oh, you're my best friend. You're like, wait, hold on. Where did that come from? There was no lead up to it. And then, you know, at the end of the next moment, we have. Wait. I really like you. Thank you. After he's just, you know, yelled at them for the last ten minutes. All right, editing.

07:07
Sam
He also, like, at some point, because, you know, when they have to get their caravan, they've got two other people that they've got to kind of bring on. And the second Ewok, who is going to take the crystal, which has magic powers, he, like, totally dismisses their powers because it turns it into, like, a little lizard. And he's like, this is a lizard. And I'm like, bro, you couldn't turn it into a lizard. Like, why are you judging? Like, you're such an ass.

07:34
Case
Right? Actual magic was just done in front of you.

07:38
Sam
Like, what?

07:41
Diana Degarmo
And then he takes his stone and just throws it away. But sweet little wicket.

07:45
Case
Yeah.

07:45
Diana Degarmo
Thank goodness for wicked, because wicked saves the day again and again. Again.

07:50
Sam
I. He is. I will not. I will not tolerate wicked slander of any. Anyone tolerate, like, slandering him. I will not tolerate it. Saying this to the rest of the people on our network.

08:01
Case
Yeah. I have a special fondness for Wicked. When. When I was a kid or when all of us were young and the Sci-Fi channel first came out, they were obviously thirsty for content that they could afford, and so they would air the Ewok cartoon. And being a young Star wars fan, I watched that all the time because it was like, yeah, it's more Star wars stuff. I love Star wars stuff, and it's a silly cartoon, but I have it on DVD. Yeah.

08:29
Sam
I also have this movie and the second movie on DVD.

08:36
Diana Degarmo
She's going down. She's going down with that ship no matter what.

08:40
Sam
I am dying on this hill, guys. This not about the second movie. I will say the second movie probably needs more work, but I am dying on the hill. I like this movie. I like ewoks. I'm fine with them. I am dying on this hill.

08:56
Diana Degarmo
But it's just so much their own entity, though, for me, coming from wanting it to be somewhere. What's its connection with the rest of the galaxy? I don't know. We don't get any backstory as to why the parents are on indoors, like, other than just me crashed. Oh, okay. But they could have just done script wise, like, you know, maybe I'll save that for later.

09:21
Case
But, yeah, I mean, for the pitches.

09:22
Diana Degarmo
I think it was a mistake to.

09:23
Case
Divorce it from the greater Star wars lore, I think particularly because, like, when you're bringing back Warwick Davis to be the main Ewok from the movie that you're coming off of, and, like, there's no Star wars logo in this. It's not a Star Wars Story. It's not a Star wars tale or whatever. The branding is now for, like, rogue one and solo and all those. Like, it's just an Ewok adventure, which is supposed to mean something to people who haven't seen return of the Jedi. I mean, even. Even to call it an Ewok adventure where I don't think they're ever called ewoks, actually, in the script of Jedi.

09:55
Diana Degarmo
No, we don't hear Ewok ever. And not even here. I even thought I was like. I was like, okay, come on. No. Okay.

10:02
Sam
All right. I mean, I need to guess that.

10:05
Case
That'S the power of the branding, that, like, people, like, Star wars is just so popular that, like, you could just be like, oh, yeah, here's a random thing from this world that they never actually say the word. And we all just know. Like, we all just know it's part of the Star wars canon.

10:20
Diana Degarmo
All right, I'll give credit where credit's. Dude, that's pretty cool. Pretty cool.

10:24
Sam
My favorite fact about this movie is that George Lucas was so upset about the Star wars holiday special that he decided to reassume, really, like, retake control over the properties for anything future being made for television. So this is a story that he specifically signed off on and hired someone to flesh out with his oversight because he was so upset about the Star wars holiday special. I love it. I love it. I love how you did that.

10:59
Case
Speaking of fleshed out, this is a 97 minutes movie, and apparently the original draft was, like, substantially shorter, like more like an hour. So speaking of George Lucas padding out the script originally, my understanding this piece was supposed to be closer to the ballpark of, like, 60 ish minutes in terms of its runtime. And that because it was a tv movie, for it to be distributed, they needed it to fit into a two hour block when padded with advertising. So it is ballooned to 97 minutes in terms of its actual runtime, which kind of explains a lot of my problem with it, which is that the first half of the movie is way too slow and takes forever to get started. And then once it actually gets started, it's like, okay, this is good.

11:38
Case
So it's just kind of a crazy kind of animal with this, with it all because, like, you end up kind of just sort of meandering around for a little while before we get, like, everyone to sort of meet each other and then, like, it's a little bit longer before it's like, oh, wait, we should actually go do the thing that we said we're going to do. And then eventually it's like, all right, now. Now we're going to start the quest, and then the quest starts, and then, like, everything's good. Like, you know, you fight. You fight a big, like, pig dog thing, and then you fight a giant and you do all that stuff, and it's great.

12:05
Diana Degarmo
You bond and then you move on, right?

12:07
Case
Yeah, exactly.

12:08
Diana Degarmo
Well, I have to admit, I tried watching this the first two times and fell asleep before I made it halfway through. I tried. I really did. And I was in it. I was, like, invested. I had my popcorn. I'm ready to go, you know? And then I tried it not once, but twice. I guess that shows I'm an old lady. I just can't watch movies after 09:00 p.m.. Anymore. I don't know. But I rewatched it again during daylight hours, and that's where I finally, like you said, case, I got to that hump point. I made it, and I could write out the rest of the film and still loved it. You know, I enjoyed it there. Again, I have my hang ups, but I enjoyed it.

12:47
Sam
It's fun for the whole family. No, I have to say, like, the beginning of the film is very slow. I think, like, the first. The first scene is pretty good. Like, the parents looking around, some of the lines are not amazing, but just in terms of writing and the things that the parents say in general. Although I get, you know, I did like the line that the mom was like, mace, we're not mad at you. Because I'm like, yeah, after you meet Mace, you're like, yeah, his parents are probably mad at him a lot. Cause he's a jerk. So. But I just think, like, in general, you're right.

13:24
Sam
The film takes a little too long to kind of get to the mystical Ewok's house to divine what the trip is going to be to get to Ewok Rivendell and to get their orders as the caravan instead of the order of the rings. Yes.

13:43
Case
Yeah. But once it. Once it gets going, then it becomes, like, just a classic fantasy thing. They find their healer, they find their barbarian, and the party goes on. They fight some monsters, and then they take on a giant, and it works, and then they win with a gun. But, you know, whatever. It's a good, solid, just classic fantasy trope. And I kept thinking, watching this was that. This must be, like the first draft of Willow.

14:08
Sam
Yeah, actually, the second movie, which we are not speaking about in general, but the second movie actually has lots of elements that definitely inspired Willow. In fact, the sorceress in the second movie does a thing where she, like, turns into a bird. That happens a lot in Willow. There's a lot of elements where, like, even the raid in the second movie, I know we're not talking about that movie. I'm sorry. But even the raid in the second movie, that beginning raid, is a lot like the raid of Willow's village. So a lot of ideas that were presented in these two tv films actually end up in that epic fantasy adventure of Willow.

14:47
Diana Degarmo
It all has to start somewhere.

14:51
Case
Yeah. And I think that this is, like, lucas having done, like, all right, we did Sci-Fi stuff for so long and was, like, so bound to it with. With Star wars for a while, is ready to pivot to more, like, more. I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell stuff, and I just want to talk about the fantasy tropes and all that kind of vibe that he had for the eighties, and he's starting to pivot here and he's making it work in Star wars. And then just a little bit later, it's like, all right, well, we've got Warwick Davis, who is such an amazing find as a solid actor of that type. He's so perfect for those parts.

15:24
Case
Taking advantage, I mean, taking advantage of a disability and making it, like, a thing that can be a selling point for you as an actor is cool and respectable. And, like, you know, Willow was really interesting because, like, they got lots of little people to be in this world and created a whole set for it and, you know, did a classic kind of fantasy trope of, like, a community of smaller people. And they're doing that here with the. With the Ewok pretense. But the Ewok pretense is a couple things that sort of keep it apart, and it makes it, like, a little bit weird because it's not a new setting. It's, it's not a setting of magic and so forth. It's. I mean, there is magic in Star wars, but it's like a kind of a specific type of magic.

16:00
Case
And the Ewoks can't speak makes it a bit of a difficult thing for storytelling.

16:06
Diana Degarmo
They kind of do. Every now and then you'll get, like a chug or a.

16:10
Sam
You did it possibly in between the words.

16:13
Diana Degarmo
It's like a strange kind of minion talk, but it wasn't fully fleshed out. So you start to kind of figure out, you know, what the good is and things like that. But yes, for no. No voices, no translation, really, the storytelling is a little hard to hold onto until you kind of start to figure out those little patterns that kind of help you. Oh, and then you know, burl ives jumps in to fill in. Oh, right. When you start to scratch your head, he goes, oh, guess what? That's. That's what happened.

16:44
Case
Yeah, let's talk about that one. Because so the movie opens, and I, like, I noted the narration, but, like, didn't think too much of it. And the movie starts happening, and then, like, five minutes in, like, the narrator comes in hard. And I was, like, shocked enough that I was like, wait a second. Did I. And I, like, rewound. Oh, yeah. He was at the very top. Top of the movie, and every single time he started talking, I was jarred away from it. I was like, oh, yeah. All right. There's a narrator. Okay.

17:10
Diana Degarmo
And it's, you know, he's the voice of the snowman. So it's some weird way it kept. It just didn't feel. I felt like I appreciated the narration to kind of help clarify things, but they always came either too soon or too late, like, editing wise. And you're like, wait. Oh, okay, there it is. And his voice just made me want to feel like I was watching a Christmas movie, which I don't. I mean, I guess it's aired right before Christmas because it was November, I think. Yeah, end of year. So, like, maybe that's what they were trying to go for, that family friendly, you know, Rudolph the red nosed reindeer, ewoks kind of vibe. I don't know.

17:42
Sam
Yeah, well, I think, like, in general, like, this speaks to kind of, like, some of the lazy world building of Star wars in general, because, like, ewok is actually a mixture of Kalmik, which is a mongolic language, and Tagalog, which is the Filipino language. So they actually could translate. They could have worked on an actual blend because there are times, in return of the Jedi, you actually hear words, and they are Tagalog. Like, tagalog words. They're, like words that Filipinos say all the time, and this mongolian language that, like, they're using actual words in our world, they just don't use it in any specific order, and they don't actually blend it well together. So this is, like, goes back to a little bit of, like, some of the general laziness.

18:32
Sam
Like, both of the languages were chosen just because the person who added it said that both of those languages sounded foreign to the human ear. So that's uncomfortable.

18:48
Diana Degarmo
Yeah.

18:49
Sam
So that's not cool. But the thing is that they did have kind of, like, this. There was actual language kind of used, so they could have used it a little cleaner if they wanted to. But I also will say that for the narration, like, you could say, oh, well, like, subtitles would have made it clearer, but this is for kids specifically, so they're not going to be able to read that. And they did use stuff, emotion animation in here, so maybe the snowman was a tie into that.

19:19
Diana Degarmo
Yes.

19:22
Sam
All the Rudolph and Snowmeister and heat mice are kind of a nod to them.

19:31
Diana Degarmo
And, you know, we don't give kids enough credit that they're, you know, that they can pick up on more of the emotional cues than I think most adults might even kind of pick up on in film. So it is a perfect, I think, a great film to also introduce young kids to the kind of Star wars world because it's just, you just kind of follow along this little family of ewoks. And I can totally picture, you know, young me absolutely being like, oh, no, I know exactly what's going on. I don't need a narrator. I have this. But, you know, adult me is processing it, trying to figure it out. Yeah.

20:03
Sam
I think also, like, one of the reviewers said that, like, although it worked for, like, the kids in the front row, it didn't work for their parents or for him. He had no idea what was going on most of the time.

20:14
Diana Degarmo
I really.

20:15
Sam
Kids, like, they don't really need a lot of language involved. Like, body language is enough for them. And things being, like, cute and kind of moving around and very expressive. Wicked is very expressive. I think the only thing that's kind of overall creepy now, so many years later, is how little the ewoks faces move.

20:35
Case
Yeah.

20:36
Diana Degarmo
Like, the lower half not at all.

20:39
Sam
Like, even their eyes, like, they don't really blink or anything. And so, like, that, I think that's, like, a little, as an adult watching this with nostalgic feelings, clearly, that I. That anyone listening to this is, like, Sam has gone off the deep end. This is not. This is not a review you can trust from me, guys. I love this movie, but, like, honestly, like, I feel like that, like, watching it, I was just like, oh, my God. Their faces really don't move. Like, they're just kind of staring. Like, just dead eyed, glass eyed kind of staring out. But, you know, other than that and a little bit of a slow beginning, I loved it. Just cut, like, maybe ten minutes from the beginning and I'm good.

21:21
Diana Degarmo
Yeah, just speed through some of those kind of moments where we have to slowly get our way to camp and figure out she's sick and it'll make her better. Well, we have to go get the medicine oh, Mace is putting his hand in something else again. Why does he like touch everything and then, you know, gather your folks and let's go on an adventure. Let's go.

21:38
Case
Yeah. It's certainly possible to imagine a, like, just a fan edit that just trims it down, that gets you to the good stuff faster, and then it's just like a solid move from there.

21:48
Diana Degarmo
I would love to know the 60 minutes version. Like, I would love to know what they had, the meat and potatoes.

21:55
Case
I'm curious. I have to imagine that all they did was add. So it's got to be just additional fluff points and maybe longer cuts on some of the things. But when we get to pitches, I'm going to have to take it from the standpoint of the studio wants a two hour movie, so we'll have to play with that. But I am going to check the Internet and see if there is, like, a 60 minutes cut of it somewhere because I feel like there must be, like, there are so many fan edits of the Phantom menace. Like, they're like, there has to be one for Caravan of courage. At least one. Like, not maybe Topher Grace didn't do it, but someone else did.

22:33
Case
But thinking about the narrator, and I'm going to sound like a broken record on this one for people who have been following the show, but it made me think about so way back when I used to rip all my DVD's so that I could watch them when I was commuting back and forth between New York and DC on bus rides. And one of the ones I did was dawn of the Planet of the Apes, which I love. I think it's a great movie. Andy Serkis is great in it. The first half hour of the movie has no actual spoken dialogue. It's all sign language. And the DVD rip I had of it didn't bring the subtitles.

23:06
Case
And so when I was watching it, I was just watching all the apes doing sign language with each other for the first 30 minutes, barely vocalizing anything, like barely even grunts. It's almost entirely like body language. And I was enthralled at how well I could follow what was going on. And that was kind of amazing. Now, part of that is that they were very facially expressive creatures in it. So you could kind of follow that. So I don't know if you could do that here 30 years before with completely flat faces that don't move in any way, shape, or form, but you could probably get some body language kind of going and, like, it's you know, they're a little more verbal than the apes would be. You could probably do something with that. I feel like. I feel like they didn't trust people enough.

23:50
Diana Degarmo
Yeah.

23:50
Sam
I mean, again, I think that they're making it for kids. I think that they. I mean, I know that kids pick up a lot on body language, but I think they just want to make sure that things are clear so that they get kids at the all ages. Like, this movie is definitely not made for the adult Star wars audience. This is, like, introduction to a Star wars creature. I mean, the ewoks were placed into the movies for kids anyway, so, like, this, like, literally is, like, not just, like, a money grab, although, yeah, it's probably a little bit of a money grab for more toy making, but it is, like, literally, like, okay, we've got this thing that was just for kids. Let's make more of this just for kids.

24:29
Sam
And I will argue that Star wars has no science in it at all, and it is completely a fairy tale. And it has always been a fairy tale, and people misname it Sci-Fi because they're spaceships, but there's no science. There's. There's none of it. It's. It's a fairy tale. So this fits right into the world for me, completely. This is just another type of fairy tale with creatures that are in the world. It gets a little confusing when you watch the second movie because the invaders, you don't know if they're from another planet or not. And it seems like the ewoks are pretty, like, isolated. So, like, I'm not sure if this is, like, before Jedi or even before, like, the empire gets there to kind of just, like, make a base on Endor. You know what I mean?

25:17
Sam
Like, what's the timeline of this family landing here? I don't know how that fixes fits into the universe. I assume that it's way before, because it seems like the ewoks first time ever meeting anyone not like them on this planet. So the Empire hasn't even come to build a base. That's what I'm assuming here. But even though it doesn't fit anywhere chronologically, it's just fun. It's just fun for kids. This is specifically a fairy tale for kids involving the cutest. Well, second cutest creature in the Star wars universe.

25:53
Case
Here.

25:53
Diana Degarmo
Here. Yes. Sam.

25:57
Sam
Your Star wars is a fairy tale. People live with it. Accept it. Okay? There's a prince, there's a princess, there's a dark prince, and all of the science is not explained midiquorians do not exist. That's fucking ridiculous.

26:13
Case
It's Space wizards. Come on now.

26:15
Sam
It's space wizards.

26:16
Diana Degarmo
Space wizards.

26:18
Case
Yeah. I do think that this movie, though, missed the opportunity to do what Star wars actually has going for it in terms of a uniqueness of setting in that it is a fusion of faux science fiction stuff with the sort of supernatural kind of elements, like the Star wars in general. It's like, yeah, we can have people who can shoot lightning from their fingertips and also a laser gun, and those two things can work together in kind of a fun way. It allows you to do a type of fantasy setting that is like a match attack kind of scenario where there's everyone has access to floating carts, cities where elevators are flying discs instead of physical things.

26:53
Case
Like, you can do the same kinds of stories in a Star wars setting and you can also do all the cool magic stuff because the Force is vague and ill defined and has lots of powers that we don't really understand. It would be kind of fun if they had tied some of that in. And I have a lot of. It's weird. This movie comes out one year after Return of the Jedi, and it kind of doesn't necessarily happen anywhere in relation to those canon has later. Or I shouldn't say canon because it's, who knows what's canon anymore? But novels wrote in Sindel later on and established that all this happened before Return of the Jedi. But when this movie came out, there's no reason for any audience to think it's before Return of the Jedi. It comes out one year later.

27:36
Case
It features a character who was in it. It very easily could be a sequel. We don't actually get that much. We could start speaking some words by the end, but there's no reason to think that he didn't necessarily interact with someone before. And maybe that's why they were cool when they saw human children. They're like, oh, it's a little one of those things that we saw before. Like, this all could be right after return of the Jedi. It could be kind of fun to, like, mix in some of those things.

27:58
Sam
Like, I think the other thing that throws it all off is that he is fluent in English in the second film, and it's really not that much later. Like, wicked is speaking in complete english sentences to Sindel, partly because I think they were just like, let's cut the narrator. And, like, so, like, timeline wise, it ruins things too, because as I was saying before, you know, like, you could say, like, oh, this is before. This could before anyone's actually gotten on planet and even before the empire has built their base. But then, like, Wicked would be able to just talk to Leia when she got there.

28:41
Case
Right.

28:42
Sam
So, like, this whole, like, it just. I. Again, you know, back to the mongolic Filipino language. Lazy world building in general for your fantasy fairy tale series.

28:59
Case
Yeah, I mean, when we get into pictures, I kind of like. I don't mind the impulse to be like, wicked should pick up some English and be a bit of a translator. I think that this should be a sequel to Return of the Jedi, where people are on the planet and, like, wicked can act as a go between, speaking a little bit of English. I think that would be a perfectly appropriate fantasy setting kind of trope. Like, we. We can roll with that. Like, and then we don't need the narrative. I think the narrator is a bad choice.

29:24
Diana Degarmo
Yeah. Yeah. He definitely takes you out of things real easily. Frosty the snow.

29:35
Case
I know we've harped on Mace a little bit, but I do want to bring up a couple things that I dislike about Mace that we haven't actually mentioned yet. Outside of him being a terrible human being.

29:42
Diana Degarmo
Well, he is a child.

29:43
Sam
Let's maybe.

29:44
Case
I know. I know.

29:46
Sam
I feel bad.

29:48
Case
Star wars has way too much of a history of the actors getting blamed for the things that are going on with characters that fans don't like. That kind of toxic fandom is a problem, and I'm not trying to perpetuate any of that here.

29:59
Diana Degarmo
Thank you, Case. Thank you. From an actor standpoint. Thank you.

30:04
Case
I mean, that is all patently ridiculous. If you don't like a character, don't blame the actor. The issue is not the child actor. The issue right now I have is the writing and then some casting choices going on here. But the casting choice isn't anything to do with him as a person. It's that they chose someone who looks like a dime store version of Mark Hamill.

30:22
Diana Degarmo
Yes. It's so creepy. The whole time, I'm like, do we have a secret child we don't know about?

30:27
Case
He's too close. He's too close. They cast a person who looks so.

30:30
Diana Degarmo
Goddamn similar, and I feel like he was directed probably a certain way as well, and because that is their job at the end of the day, get what you need. And he's so angry the whole time. I'm always like, why is Luke Skywalker so mad? Right?

30:45
Case
And he. Because he also. He has the same kind of wine that Luke had in the earlier movies, like, in the first two and he's wearing a flight suit that looks just like the flight suit that Luke wore. It's very clear that they're trying to be like, this is your Star wars equivalent character. And I find it frustrating from the standpoint of this is the spot, I think, that they tried to insert, like, oh, if you like Star wars, this is that type of character here. It has nothing to do with the actor. It's just like a choice for a character that is in the blank.

31:14
Sam
Yeah, yeah. I think they also, with both of the casting choice, both children were trying to evoke different things. So with him it was Luke, and with her it was Drew Barrymore from et. Ding, ding, ding.

31:29
Diana Degarmo
You can't get Drew Barrymore. Get her.

31:32
Sam
Like, they were like, oh, tiny, blond, kind of cherub looking, like little child who's going to be very trusting of, like, the creature, and she's going to connect right away. And that was very, like, an et thing, which had just come out, like, a couple years before.

31:50
Diana Degarmo
Right.

31:51
Sam
Like, 1982. And, like, so I felt like they were trying to hit all of their bases with these two choices.

32:01
Diana Degarmo
Yeah. The whole film as a whole. As much as I do love that it can stand on its own and it has its lovers out there, Samantha. But it does feel, I think if I like it's. It's all just throwing putty at, like, mud at the wall, being like, does this stick? Can we, can we make. Can we sell this? Like, what other. What other, you know, go to for film or money? Cash cow can we make out of this film? They were just, like, squeezing it because it clearly seems like it had good purpose in the beginning, and then they just. They took the 60 minutes and they had to cram in 37 more minutes, and it sort of took a life of its own.

32:41
Case
Yeah. And, like, this is early in when in the rise of, like, toys being the big push for some of this material. Like, Star wars famously is like, one of the tipping points in terms of merch becoming, like, the reason why you make the property. And the eighties is known for all the cartoons and so forth that are like, we greenlit this to sell the toys that were already going to sell. So I'm surprised, looking at it, that there aren't more toyetic components. Like, there aren't more things going on that we. That they could sell to kids. Like, you would think, like, have a few. Like, you would think you could go to, like, who was the original Star wars toys? Like Kenner, Mattel.

33:19
Sam
I think it was Kenner, yeah, I think it was Kenner.

33:20
Case
Like, go to them and be like, hey, we want to. Like, we want a big monster for this action sequence. Can we sell a toy of it and, like, just roll with those kind of things? Because, like, the. So the world that they're in is very clearly, like, they're shooting out by, like, the redwoods, and they're, like, trying to get, like, okay, here's a big forest to, like, film in. And there are moments.

33:38
Sam
It's, like, my backyard a little bit.

33:42
Case
And there are spots that are, like. They do some cool stuff with, like, where they're in that, like, patch with all the, like, the really high up root structure, but there are some spots where it's just like, okay, that's a llama and that's a pony. And there's, like, literally no change that you're making to it. Some of these don't even fit the biome that you're in. Like, some of those should be out on the plains. Like, you're not in the right spot.

33:59
Diana Degarmo
Yeah.

34:00
Case
One thing I noticed that they did that was pretty good. Or maybe not pretty good. Cause it wasn't actually, like, that effective, but I thought was at least a good effort that they did was that they put fur on all the chickens that were walking around. Like, if you look at their feet, they're, like. They're, like, in, like, fur suits walking around and, like, pecking about, and it's like, okay, well, that's at least, like, kind of cute that you're trying to make them look alien. Maybe you could have done that to the other animals that you have in the forest.

34:23
Sam
When I was looking at that, I was, like, imagining what person had to go around sticking first. Chicken feet.

34:30
Diana Degarmo
What was your job today? Chicken wrangler.

34:33
Sam
Yeah. Like, it was like, being like, okay, like, stay still. Hold it.

34:38
Case
Stop pecking me. Stop pecking me.

34:41
Sam
No, no, don't hold his neck that way. You might get. Oh, I guess that's.

34:45
Diana Degarmo
We only have six chickens now.

34:47
Sam
We only have six.

34:48
Diana Degarmo
One ran off. Sorry.

34:50
Case
All right, like, once we get into, like, some of the other things in the. In the space that are special effects stuff, it's like, okay, those. Those are all cool elements. And, like, the special effects in this movie, I was quite happy with in general, particularly the. I don't think they give it a name, but, like, the notes call it a bore wolf. This sort of, like, big, carnivorous creature that attacks him in the middle of the movie is. It's one of the last big stop motion things that ilm ever does. And, yeah, it's made for tv. So, like, the actual movement's a little bit janky in much the way that the rancor was a little bit janky in Jedi. Like, but it looks really cool. And then the gorax at the end also, like, yeah, it's a guy in a suit.

35:27
Case
But, like, the way they frame it, everything looks actually really good. Like, all the, like, here, all the new stuff that introduced. Pretty good. Yeah.

35:35
Diana Degarmo
And, like, even the little sprite, Evelina, was that. Yeah, like, I thoroughly enjoyed that. Kind of, you know, it kind of felt like a little art deco.

35:44
Sam
I forgot that Tinkerbell was in this.

35:46
Case
Right.

35:46
Diana Degarmo
You're right.

35:47
Sam
They threw everything in this because basically, Evelina is Tinkerbell. That's who she is. She's got just about as much attitude as Tinker bell and attaches to Luke Junior and, like, he's Peter Pan, so. Yeah.

36:03
Diana Degarmo
And they create this bond, and somehow she saves. Helps save the day. Like, but yet we don't really ever figure out what she is or how does he know her name? Just, you know. Okay, Evelina. Great. Let's go for it.

36:15
Case
Yeah, I'm just saying, I feel llamas and ponies. They should have at least, like, dyed them a color or something, like, just to make it, like, a little more alien.

36:23
Diana Degarmo
Yeah, that was. That was, for me, a couple parts. I was like, oh, well, all right, well, at least they. They shot it. They filmed it, and they said, great, we captured it. Moving on.

36:32
Sam
What are we doing next? Yeah, all space llamas should be pink.

36:38
Diana Degarmo
I second.

36:38
Sam
I don't know why. Just randomly. Just randomly.

36:43
Case
Just before we started recording this, I was on our friend's show, Saturday morning Confidential, where I was talking about my little pony. So this is actually kind of. Yeah, let's do my little llama and have blue llamas with pink highlights and so forth.

37:00
Sam
I love it.

37:01
Diana Degarmo
Yeah, no problem.

37:02
Sam
Little, like, tramp stamps on their butts, like you do with.

37:07
Case
They're called a cutie mark. Thank you.

37:10
Sam
Same difference. I've heard people call tramp stamps cutie marks, too. So, anyway, I've derailed the podcast.

37:24
Diana Degarmo
No, you're right, though.

37:25
Sam
Like, the llamas, the other animals, like, I was just like, oh, so this is just. This is just a horse. Okay, cool.

37:32
Case
Yeah. At one point, there's just a weasel, like, in their house, and it's like, oh, yeah. But it's like, it's just a weasel. Like, you're not doing. You're not making a space weasel somehow.

37:42
Diana Degarmo
But then there's a space weasel in the tree, and that eats maces. That becomes a snake and eats mace's arm, but his left hand is injured. Not his right hand, but it ate his right hand.

37:54
Sam
There's some continuity issues. Okay.

37:56
Diana Degarmo
All right. I'll go with it. But they. But they gave us a space snake, so I'll take the giant space snake.

38:01
Case
Yeah.

38:02
Sam
Yeah. Also, apparently, space spiders webs are not sticky because they're able to clearly climb across it without getting stuck to it and are just fine.

38:17
Case
I'd have to check. I vaguely remember reading that real spider webs, not all the webbing is sticky, so maybe that's the pretense there.

38:25
Diana Degarmo
Learn something every day.

38:28
Case
Don't call this learning. I'm like, when you said that, like, I was like, wait, is that. Is it, like, they have certain types of sticky and certain types that, like structural? You know, don't quote me on this one. I don't know.

38:38
Sam
Yeah. Honestly, it wasn't even that structurally sound, to be fair, because they only needed one hack to cut the whole thing down.

38:45
Case
Right.

38:45
Sam
So, to be fair, easy. Crazy spiders, very bad at spidering.

38:49
Case
Also, real spider silk. Very hard to cut if proportionally sized. Like, real spider webs are supposed to be as strong as steel. So. Yeah. You wouldn't just be able to hack through it. Barbarian. Ewok.

39:00
Sam
I'm just saying. Just saying.

39:02
Diana Degarmo
Also, why does it take the high priestess so long to use her crystal on the spider? I'm like, girl, we could have. We could have used that ten minutes ago, like, trance, that spider, and let everybody over first, and then, you know, you're taking your time.

39:15
Sam
Yeah, she did. But I think, like, she was still trying to figure out if she really wanted to be part of the group.

39:21
Case
Well, you know, it's a high level.

39:22
Sam
Spell jerk to her.

39:24
Diana Degarmo
Do I want to keep mace or do I not want to keep mace?

39:27
Sam
Unfortunately, it wasn't him, though. It was chick took who was on the actual. He was still actually on the web, and he deserved saving. He deserved it all. He deserved everything. He is the hero. He's the hero of this.

39:48
Case
Let's talk about the back half of the movie, because the first half definitely feels stretched out, and they're fighting against their budget, and there's some production issues. Not all the ewoks look that good. Some of them look like they just had some carpet samples that they stitched together because, you know, they're trying to fill out, like, a whole roster here. But when we get to the back half, it is. It is really solid. Like, how do you say it? Chook, chook chuck?

40:11
Sam
Chuk tuk.

40:12
Case
Chuk tuk, Chuk tuk. This. This barbarian who is almost as tall as mace. He's like the biggest ewok that we ever see who just is wielding an axe and just, like, fucking. We introduce him by him cutting down a tree and then, like, every time he, like, wrestles a horse down, he, like, is a bit of a bully. But then he makes a last stand against this giant thing by, like, breaking its toes to, like, keep its attention on him. Like, it's amazing.

40:37
Sam
And honestly, I think his surly attitude really fits in with Luke Junior or Mace. I should not confuse people, but with mace because, like, part of the reason he joins is that the two of them have, like, kind of an axe throwing competition and realize, oh, we're both jerks. And then there's all sorts of love and he joins their group and it's kind of great. He's, he's surly. He. He seems a little more sarcastic in his body language to a lot of things. I'm honestly, like, if he could talk, he'd have all the one liners in this film. I know he would.

41:11
Diana Degarmo
Absolutely.

41:12
Sam
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

41:15
Case
He would have the no one tosses a dwarf kind of moments all throughout.

41:19
Sam
Yeah, 1000%, you know, because he, like, probably, like, in Ewok was just like, go, laddie. I've got this one at his final stand. And that's mace actually feels bad when he dies. And Mace is like a person in.

41:37
Diana Degarmo
That moment, a changed man. And then he receives the axe that takes the final blow. We come full circle. It's really lovely, actually, but not without, you know, one more scare with the kitties because, you know, we have to have one more and we're stretching it out a little bit more.

41:53
Case
Yeah. Now, we keep on saying that this is for kids and so forth, but this is also the era. And honestly, the people who are involved with things like labyrinth and dark crystal and so forth at around this time, I feel like this movie could have gotten away with a little bit more scares because as it is, we still have one of the main characters dies, and there's plenty of terrifying monsters. The spider is pretty freaky looking. All of those things look legitimately scary. We could probably have done. You probably could have just assumed that they're cool with a little bit more if you wanted to, like, sneak in a little bit here or there.

42:29
Diana Degarmo
Yeah.

42:30
Sam
But I guess it's made for tv, so maybe that was also part of it, like, it wasn't like a theatrical release. I don't know. I think. I think it's more like what they had in the budget for their. For their practical and stop motion effects at, like, how many monsters they could afford to budget in. I really do think that, like, the bottom line came down to that.

42:53
Case
Yeah, but I'm saying that, honestly, I would not be surprised if you go to Kenner and, like, I want to do a new monster and do another sequence, like, earlier in the movie. So just to flesh, like, to flesh out that part and say, like, it's going to be cool and you're going to sell a ton of toys, you probably could have gotten a little bit of money for it. Like, I just don't think that they, like, were honestly thinking the way that studios would be thinking, like, three years later.

43:14
Diana Degarmo
I feel like it was a fast turnaround. I feel like they just wanted to get something out onto tv. They probably already had the idea, you know, somewhat solidified, and then they just threw what they could at it in, like, six months and said, great, we have a film. Here you go. And they didn't have a chance to kind of do all of that pre production or real budgeting that you. You start to see with the lower or, you know, later movies.

43:36
Case
Yeah, I mean, that's fair. It is only one year after return of the Jedi.

43:39
Diana Degarmo
Yeah, they're like, cash in now, people.

43:42
Sam
Cash in.

43:43
Diana Degarmo
Give us a tv special. Lucas is like, okay, okay.

43:49
Sam
And he was just like, you're not doing that Star wars holiday special again. I will take this over. What? I only have, like, seven months to do it. Fuck it. I'm going to do it anyway.

43:59
Case
Yeah, that's fair. And, I mean, this is like an early outing. Once, like, Skywalker Ranch had been set up and like, all that. Like, I know Lucas all of a sudden actually had a production arm that he did not previously. I mean, he had it for Jedi, too, but he's definitely trying to flex his muscles in terms of, like, look at all the things that we can create. Let's get them out there on all the things. Movies, tv, probably not radio. I don't know.

44:23
Diana Degarmo
Pew, pew, pew.

44:25
Sam
Just on.

44:25
Case
But actually, they did the Star wars.

44:27
Sam
Radio play, so, yeah, they'd be fine.

44:31
Case
Dominating everything.

44:33
Sam
Good.

44:34
Case
But that said, I've got random notes about, oh, this seems like a little wonky here or there, but there's nothing. Again. Overall, I ended up. But once I got over the hump of the halfway mark being like, this is actually, like, shockingly fun once you're there. Like, once you're into the actual story, it's. That part's fun. Leading up to it was like, all right, well, it's just, like, it's kind of slow, and it's not really that exciting, but it wasn't awesome. It also wasn't particularly offensive, so it doesn't, like, ruin it for me. I don't know. Do you have any other notes that we want to talk about before we kind of get into pitches?

45:06
Sam
I just want to say really briefly that I don't. You know, I don't want to disparage the parents, but I just don't feel like they were very good parents just based on the small interactions that they had. Not because they didn't miss their children, because they did, but when it was time to escape, they kept running, and their son was left behind, so. And then they were, like, at the precipice, couldn't cross, and they're like, oh, no, where's Mace? Like, you left him in the cave with the monster and the one brave ewok that decided to take the monster. You are really terrible parents, and I want you guys to know that. So, yeah, that's my only note, just judging them in general based on what? Like, less than ten minutes of screen time so we can move on to pitches.

45:58
Case
All right, so why don't we do that? But before we do, we should drop a plug for one of the other shows on our network.

46:04
Sam
Yes, we should.

46:06
Case
Ads.

46:07
Sam
Before the wicked Witch of the west and those gals from Salem, there was Cersei, the captivating and kind of catastrophic greek witch who did more than just turn men into pigs.

46:16
Diana Degarmo
I'm Rose.

46:16
Sam
I'm Kelsey.

46:17
Diana Degarmo
And I'm Gloria. Join us this fall on Circling Cersei, the podcast where we talk about Madeleine Miller's incredible book Cersei. We go through the novel chapter by chapter. We laugh. We cry from laughing. We swoon over Daedalus and other greek hotties and talk way too much about food, life, and scented candles.

46:36
Sam
I'm hydrated. I'm ready. I'm pumped. Talk about greek gods and titans. Let's do this.

46:42
Diana Degarmo
Lasagna is not supposed to be cool. It's supposed to be eaten hot.

46:44
Sam
Stupid who just looked at the count.

46:46
Diana Degarmo
Was like, hey, sexy moo. Right over here.

46:49
Sam
It's 1145. I need to go eat my liver.

46:52
Diana Degarmo
My prometheus Potay, and Granny's like, get out. We post every Wednesday, so mark your calendars, make, like Scylla. Grab a sailor and dive in.

47:03
Sam
Find circling Circe on Spotify or wherever.

47:06
Diana Degarmo
You get your podcasts.

47:07
Sam
Do you want to do an outro? Yeah. Possess your outro.

47:16
Diana Degarmo
Yeah. That's it.

47:20
Case
All right. And we are back. So who wants to go first in terms of thoughts about what could have been done to make this movie better? I generally have a standing rule, but I'm not allowed to go before Sam. So I'm. Since Diana is shaking her head that she doesn't want to go first, I'm going to say Sam's going first on this one.

47:36
Sam
Ok. So again, I love this film. And so part of me wants to be lazy and be like, it's fine. It's fine the way it is. But it's not. There's things that can change. And I think mostly what I would change is within the first half of the film, I feel like it's fine to kind of show the Ewok family dynamic because I think that's what, like, the first scene is trying to show you where, like, father Ewok is going out to find his children that are, like, on a rock, but it doesn't really fit the rest of the film and it feels more like a documentary. Like, like if, like, it's like a different part of the movie.

48:20
Diana Degarmo
Right?

48:20
Sam
So it's just like, here you see a father Iwa looking for his children. They have gotten trapped somewhere. We're going to follow the. So it's just really weird. It's National Geographic all of a sudden, which, by the way, I would totally watch that. I would be fine with that if that was the movie and it was like an hour long of, like, watching the rural Ewoks of Endor. I would totally love that. But that's not what this film is. So I would totally change that, you know, because it's very strange. And I think instead I would still do the first moment with the parents looking for the kids. I would change some of the lines because they're really weird. Like, they're like, are you still in the cabin? Did you stay in the ship like we told you to? Why did you leave?

49:09
Sam
Like, who are you talking to? Why are. What are these lines? I don't. I don't understand. So I would just. I would kind of, maybe even for funsies, show the actual crash if I had the budget. I don't know if I have the budget, but I would show the actual crash and then show the kids get separated from their parents because I think that's more dynamic. And also that brings that space element that we're so used to in Star wars, because right now, we just have, like, a, you know, a transportation pod. Like, just on the ground. We don't have anything else. So I would show this the ship crash. I'd maybe even do an adorable shot of an Ewok seeing something through the sky because they're cute, and that's a very normal shot.

49:50
Sam
And have them, as a family go out to look through that crash and only encounter the children. They can still nurse the Sindel back to health because she's crashed and she's not feeling well. Mace can still be a little standoffish because he's on a planet, and this was not their trajectory planet, but he can come to trust them. And then when the children are better, they can set out to actually find their parents and figure out where that is. And that's how I would fix it. I would just fix that whole beginning part and make it less like ewoks of the Endor forest national geographics and more like, oh, wow, we're ewoks, and we just saw, like, a spaceship crash.

50:36
Sam
Let's go check out what that is, because something fell through our sky, and this is our planet, and have them be kind of, like adorable little rescuers. So that's what I would change.

50:48
Case
Can I tag in? Because that's almost identical to my notes.

50:50
Sam
Really?

50:51
Diana Degarmo
I know I'm right there with you. Like, I was like, well, she.

50:54
Sam
We.

50:55
Diana Degarmo
Okay, we're all clearly on the same page.

50:57
Case
Here's my actual notes. Like, so, like, the things we're working against is the budget, and we're working against the time. So, like, we know that they need to pad it. So we need to, like, if we're cutting stuff, we have to, like, fill up the space, and we have to justify anything that we're putting in there. So, assuming you're not getting money for. For merchandise stuff, which I know I was pushing that during the first half. I don't think that's, like, a foregone conclusion, so I'm not going with it. So, my thought is, open the movie with a shot of indoor, which you definitely have on file already from return of the Jedi. Pan up and insert a stock shot of a shuttle flying.

51:27
Case
And when I say a stock shot, I mean all of those ILM special effects of just, like, the back of a ship with, like, the, like, three engine lights going, like. Or, like, the three. Or rather, like, the three exhaust spots. Like, we're not talking about complicated shots. And then you have audio that indicates an alarm, and you have the parents saying, we're going down. And then you cut to the sky, and you see what looks like some sort of meteor type thing going on. Yeah, like, the ship crashing. So we're not talking about expensive shots here. We're talking about footage that they probably already have on file for both of those things. Yeah, because, like, yeah, it's different compositing to do the ship, but, like, I mean, we're gearing up to talk about Superman four and men of steel.

52:04
Case
And, like, they have the same shot of Chris Reeve flying and, like, 30.

52:08
Diana Degarmo
Times in the movie, like, reduce, reuse, recycle. If it ain't broke, why fix it, though, if it tells the story?

52:15
Case
Exactly. ILM was one of the groundbreaking studios in terms of, like, using blue screen and specifically and using it for, like, all their model work, for all the flying stuff. So they have all this footage. We're not talking about anything new.

52:29
Sam
Exactly. And you can still have at night, you can still do the shot with the original monster. I mean, like, I was actually thinking you can even leave that for, like, the app and just have, like, the legs kind of coming down and, like, kind of the ominous, like, oh, no, there's a big monster above. Parents, like, not do that shot and just kind of know that they're gone the next morning when the ewoks come and just find the kids. But, like, honestly, if you shot that thing, you could leave it in, like, the parents being separated from the kids and the kids being unconscious and found by the ewoks the next day. That still works.

53:06
Case
Yeah. So, like, my thought is, like, all right, so we see the ship coming into the atmosphere, and, like I said, you can just take, like, a composite of some sort of meteor type thing or a ship. Like, I'm sure they have that all you like. It's a white line in the skyline. We're not talking about a complex animation here, maybe with some fire effects or some smoke and pan down to see that wicket is the one who sees it, and he tries to indicate to his parents, hey, there's a thing, and they ignore him, and they want to go about their business. And what my thoughts are is to tie this into return of the Jedi more just so that we can justify a few things, because I don't want to have the narrator.

53:45
Case
We set them up as, like, going about their day, and I think there should be, like, wreckage of the Death Star and, like. But I don't mean, like, big set piece kind of stuff. I mean, like, there should just be, like, a few, like, flats that are painted to look like broken shards of metal, and then, like, whatever random fucking props that they want to, like, have in, like, piles, like. Like, junk piles that the ewoks are kind of going through and, like, trying to figure out what there are, like, maybe, like, a thing that is clearly part of a computer they're using as a knife, like. Like, whatever, to sort of sell that. They're, like, salvaging things. And again, shouldn't be expensive.

54:16
Case
We're only talking about them taking all the, like, the random crap that they already have and just putting them into a pile on, like, a fake wooden table, like, for, like, people to be, like. Like, working with, like. Like, some sort of fake market. Because the other thing is, they couldn't really use the Ewok village because that was expensive to use. Like, that set was really expensive and not. I don't think they had full access to it at that point. Like, part of it had been torn down. Like, you don't see a lot of it in it. Like, there's a few shots where you, like, look up at people in tree houses which are mostly compositing. You don't have them moving around in this intricate set that was from return of the Jedi.

54:45
Case
So this justifies them being in a different location because this is, like, now, like, this little weird makeshift thing that's sort of worked up about it. And we can kind of see the sort of, like, world where they have little things that they don't fully understand, but, like, maybe they're trying to use, like, computer devices and so forth, so that we can sort of set up, like, a world of magic and science in this fantasy setting. So probably won't play much into this one, but this way, it's, like, part of this world. And again, timeline set it as being, like, after return of the Jedi when they come home, wicked is trying. Is making gestures and sort of making, like, a flying sound and moving his hand. Star destroyer like that or starship kind of thing.

55:22
Case
And what I think they should do is after this whole bit, he, like, brings his hand and, like, in front of a fire, and that's where it should fade to a fire of the wreckage of the ship and the pants. The parents are out there looking for the kid. So, like, the ship in the movie that we got is, like, fairly well together. I think you should have, like, some trees down around it. I think you should have some, like, random debris and, like, some fires lit. And the parents are like, frantically looking for the kids because we're just picking up right after the crash instead of, like, they've been down for a while. So, like, the parents are looking around. Basically the same scene with the. With the gorax. Like, he shows up. And that's when you can cut to your first commercial.

55:59
Case
So when you come back, we have wicket being the one to prep the hang glider because he wants to go look. And again, there shouldn't be any dialogue from the. From the ewoks at this point. And we shouldn't have the narrator. So we got to keep it kind of short and kind of, like, very clear what's going on. So, like, the should be trying to indicate, no. That's when he takes off and maybe, like, maybe his dad or maybe his two brothers, whatever. We can have, like, a bit of an action scene of them trying to keep up with wicked, who is hang gliding over everything. We can have a matte painting of, like, the forest of Endor, and we can show, like, a downed ats tea at some spot. We can maybe fly over the shield generator base from Return of the Jedi.

56:34
Case
Again, all of this is just like a painting that we're putting a little, like, hang glider over. I know how to do this animation myself. This part would be very easy to put together. So you do that. And, like, wicked is traveling and his siblings are chasing after him. And this can be, like, our action beat for this section right here that kind of pads it out. We can have them just running through the forest, like, parkouring around and they lose sight of wicked. And that's when Wicca touches down, when he sort of sees where the ship is and goes to investigate. When he goes to the ship, he is alone. He finds the kids. It sort of plays out the same way with mace firing off a gun to sort of scare them.

57:12
Case
The gunshot is what causes the siblings to realize where the base or, like, where the. Where wicket is and, like to. To run to. That plays out kind of the same way when they're coming up. Wicket surprises mace by saying, like, something in common, like spaceship or whatever, like some word. And, like, he's surprised. And that's when, like, one of the brothers, like, smacks him over the head with a stick and, like, they, like, sindel's like, they, you know, we'll get a little bit of, like, the play that happens where, like, sindel's like, no, don't hurt him. He wasn't. He was trying to be nice, you know, et cetera. Sindel trying to be like, nice to them and have that relationship. And she says to wicket, like, we lost our parents. Can you help us find us? Cut to commercial. Come back.

57:57
Case
They are bringing. They're hauling mace back to their village. Sindel is walking with them. Sindel is trying to explain to wicked everything. Wicked then is translating to the family. So we have him have a little bit of common, having spent time with Luke, Leia, etcetera. And maybe in their hut, they should have, like, a little statue of c three po.

58:16
Sam
That'd be great.

58:19
Case
I mean, even if you want to set it beforehand, they should have a little statue of c three po just to really hammer that one home.

58:25
Sam
They'd be amazing. Maybe, like, a tiny. Maybe in every home, maybe just in the background everywhere, just tiny little c.

58:31
Diana Degarmo
Three p. Little idols.

58:33
Case
Yeah. So we get, like, kind of a scene in, like, their hut where wicked is acting as translator between them, and we can kind of establish how much english wicked speaks at this point. Like, it shouldn't be much, but it should be, like, can make broken translations of things so that, like, in a certain regard, Sindel starts to act as a bit of the narrator for us, where she has to explain to him things that he then has to convey to everyone else so she can give the full story of the crash here. And if you have the budget, you can show some footage of it. But we already saw just enough at the very beginning, so we can set up some of the time, place, et cetera, take it to the seer pretty much immediately at this point.

59:11
Case
And I feel like that we should just sort of emphasize the seer as being, like, force sensitive. Like, maybe you could do some effect to sort of convey, like, more of a meditation kind of thing. And if you had to, maybe augering something kind of fun for fantasy purposes. But, like, indicate that, like, the force is causing it to move into the shape that it needs to be. Whatever. Maybe. Maybe using some tech stuff because there's, you know, again, there's tech stuff. So you could have, like, a little radar display or, like, a map is projected or something. Not. Not like a hologram, but, like, on a screen. So it's not super expensive would be kind of fun. But, like, again, I think, like, make it. I mean, it is magic, but it's like, it's the force. Like, the.

59:47
Case
A lot of the stuff could be sort of explained that way and keep it feeling like it's all part of the same franchise, even if it's. Even if we're really doubling down on the fantasy story, like. Like, somehow guardians of the Galaxy is in the same setting as Captain America, and it kind of works. Like, we just need to have that level of, like, can be. They're. They're really far apart, but we. We've seen these people before. The things that they're doing, no one has not seen in this world. Like, we're at least aware that, like. Yeah, like, they. They have a seer who seems to be able to commune with spirits. Maybe if you really wanted to, like you. I was about to suggest a force ghost ewok. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to take that one back.

01:00:22
Sam
Yeah, yeah, don't. Don't do that one. But you could. You could use something a little more tribal and still make it, or, like, traditionally known. Like, you know, how, like, culturally people used to read, like, runestones and things like that. You could have him, like, read stones or that thing, like, but use the force to lift them, and, like, you could see that kind of thing. So it still would go with their. Like, this is a tribe untouched by a lot of the modern world. Like, they're still very, like, you know, living in their thing, but they're using this. This thing that everyone else uses the force, whether they know the name of it or not, but they're using it with their own rituals.

01:00:59
Sam
And this force power, like, whether this Ewok knows or not that they actually are a force wielder, they've been using it as if this power helps them predict the future and see the future. So you could do something like that, too.

01:01:13
Case
Yeah, I joke that it should be the force changing if they auger a goat or something, how the blood trails go. I think the runes thing is better. What if they have, like, little, like, what if they have, like, little stones that they've carved runes into, and what we can see is a stop motion. And this is a very easy stop motion thing of them moving around as she's like. Like meditating or something, and it moves into a configuration that is ewok runes. So the only thing this is a big change is that it establishes they have a written language, but it gives them Ewok runes that they then look and interpret and use that as the sort of focus of setting up this quest.

01:01:49
Sam
I mean, you could also make it that it's not runes, but, like, hieroglyphics esque kind of thing. So, like, images.

01:01:56
Case
Yeah, yeah.

01:01:57
Sam
Still also a language, but you could make it a little more like, you know, picture of, oh, well, clearly a llama or horse don't forget the horses.

01:02:08
Diana Degarmo
Because they have that or a weasel.

01:02:11
Sam
And somehow those help them understand what it means, you know, like, seven of knives. Seven knives mean this. Well, three weasels mean that you have to go over the mountain.

01:02:25
Case
Yeah. Yeah. So we have Ewok tarot and.

01:02:30
Sam
Yeah. Ewok stone tarot that is controlled by a force wielder.

01:02:35
Case
Yeah. And because I think that could be kind of fun. Like, again, stop motion would be pretty cheap to do. Like, you could very easily, like, move things into position and then, like, there you walk. So, like, this one doesn't speak English, so it's just going to interpret it as it needs to and then convey it to wicked. And then wicked says, we help you find family, and then that's all we really need to know. Yeah, but then after that, like, that's about the halfway part. I feel like, you know, we put a little bit of action beats in there to sort of fill up some time that I think could be shot fairly cheaply. Like, just a bunch of people in ewok suits running through the forest isn't that expensive.

01:03:08
Case
But we can make it kind of dramatic as, like, looking up, trying to keep sight of the hang glider that's flying, which is, again, one shot that they blue screen of someone on the, like, someone flying the hang glider, and then they just insert it in all the shots of, like, every time there's, like, a little bit of a clearing of the trees. Like, you look up, it's blue sky composite in the hang glider. And then, like, the ewoks are still running. Oh, we gotta. We gotta slide under a log. Oh, we gotta hop over. There's a waterfall. Damn it. We lost wicked. Like, it would be dramatic. You don't need a lot of words, so you don't need to have to stress about, like, the narrator and so forth.

01:03:41
Case
We get the sense that it's a family member because we saw them all together, so we know that dynamic is all there. They tried to stop him from going. He, like, stubbornly, like, takes off. Like, I think that fills some of the time that we need to fill, and it could be a prolonged action sequence. I realize that this still might be too long or, like, too stretched out, but at least there are, like, fun bits, as opposed to just being like, what? I can't even tell.

01:04:00
Sam
Like, I can't even articulate the National Geographic version.

01:04:04
Diana Degarmo
Yeah. At this point, I would take anything over that. The National Geographic ewoks, as much as I do love it's just. It's so confusing when you start the film. You don't know where you are. I mean, you sort of know where you are. But we have no real context, so if we can get, you know, just those few images of the crash so we understand and rewrite the script a little bit or just maybe take a couple more seconds to think about what we want to say before we just write the first thing that comes to mind. I felt like a lot of the script was like, hey, just be mad.

01:04:34
Sam
Oh, that's it.

01:04:35
Diana Degarmo
Okay.

01:04:35
Sam
Yeah, yeah. I think the crazy thing about that first half of that script, though, it's kind of like, you're right. It's almost as if the person wrote it, as if you don't know who the e was are. Like, it assumes that you never watch Jedi. You know, like. Like, they're introducing you to this rural teddy bear creature that lives on a magical, like, planet, like, somewhere in a galaxy far away. And I think, like, that's why it feels so weird, because then when you get to the second half, like, you're. You're in a different movie. Like, it's not. It's not the same film. It starts off as if they're introducing you to these type of characters for the first time, and that's just kind of bananas because Jedi was so huge.

01:05:23
Diana Degarmo
And even if you didn't know randomly who they were with enough, just proper storytelling, it'll happen on its own because they're so cute and cuddly. You want to pay attention. You want to figure out what they are. I love the idea of the family dynamic with seeing Wicked go down and see the crash, and I would rather watch that than just the kind of randomness that happens before we finally get to our group and go on our adventure. Yeah.

01:05:50
Sam
It also, like, really more plays into my idea of who wicked is. Like as a child. To me, he was just the most adventurous of the ewoks, the most curious of the ewoks. He was the one that was willing to go out on a limb and be friends with Princess Leia and, like. Like, he wanted to smell and wear her helmet and, like, so, to me, like, I just feel like he was the guy that was like, no, this. This one's cool. Yeah, we can roast to those other ones. I didn't say hi to them first, you know, like, he's. He's like, he's the extrovert of this Ewok group. Clearly. Everyone else is like, why did you bring people home? We have to cook them now. And wicket was like, no, let's make friends. So, you know, I think Casey's version honors that.

01:06:38
Diana Degarmo
Yeah. And remove the. Remove the narrator. I would rather, you know, let's have little bit, you know, and wicked be the translators between the two. They tell our story, and then we keep going because that first half just. You get so lost. And who's on first, what's on second, where. Oh. And then by the time you figure it out. Oh, okay. Now the movie begins. And I think if, you know, also ironing out some of the. The Tagalong Mongolian language, which is giving us a little bit more thought into that dialogue so you can be a little more easily translatable just by yourself, instead of having to have the narrator, because I'm invested, you can't help but want to follow these little ewoks. And, yeah, the humans are fine, but we're really there for the ewoks.

01:07:23
Diana Degarmo
I just want to see them go on an adventure.

01:07:26
Sam
Yeah, it's true.

01:07:27
Case
Yeah. And it's a fun little adventure. And, like, we. We're all, like, saying, like, oh, yeah. Once you get to that second half, it's really fun. So I think we just. We just need to make it exciting to get there, because if it has to be 2 hours, that first hour should still be a fun time.

01:07:40
Diana Degarmo
Yeah. Yeah. You. You feel that. That they are definitely just trying to stretch it out as long as they can, and then that's where the 60 minutes movie kicks in.

01:07:49
Case
Right.

01:07:49
Sam
The money's in the advertising.

01:07:52
Diana Degarmo
It really is, but, yeah.

01:07:55
Case
So, Diana, do you have any other, like, takes you want to throw out there, or if not, that's cool. I feel like we have a really solid one already, you guys.

01:08:02
Diana Degarmo
You've hit all the nails on the head and expanded it even far beyond than what I could have even given you. So thank you for being amazing, but that I was on the exact same path. I'm like, just connect my worlds. Let me still get a little bit of that science so we see where we are. We're not just in a forest with a spacecraft. I would love a little bit more of the story of the parents, too, as to why they're even close to indoor how to, like, what's their what. What's going on with them. But other than that, you guys hit the nail right on the head. I want to see that movie, so let's do it.

01:08:36
Sam
Is it bad that I'm just like, nah, fuck the parents?

01:08:40
Case
Well, we don't need to have the parents do the explanation, because we can have Sindel and mace try to give the explanation to the Ewoks and then, like, Mace could be, like, giving too many details that don't matter to the ewoks at all.

01:08:52
Sam
I will say for all of my parents, lander, I will say that at least the dad did help. Like, trip, what's his name, the gore, the Goracks.

01:09:03
Diana Degarmo
Gorax.

01:09:04
Sam
I was gonna. I was gonna call him something totally different. And the mom did shoot him. So, like, they. They both did get their licks in the last battle on some level, even though the final blow was the axe from Mace's hand. But, yeah, they did do something in the film. They just also didn't left their son behind. So judging them.

01:09:27
Case
Yeah. Oh, I do. I need to call out one line that, like, ultimately does actually matter. So at one point, Mace says, listen, as soon as I get my gun, like, and there's, like, this vibe of everything's fine. But you know what? At the end of the movie, that is, like, how they kind of win.

01:09:40
Diana Degarmo
So thank heavens for the gun with the weenie, you know, lays laser, just the lazy laser. It almost makes it.

01:09:48
Sam
But, you know, in general, his lines are just terrible.

01:09:51
Case
Yeah. I definitely would have dressed mace less in, like, he's in effectively a military flight suit, which I get that they're probably limited in terms of what costumes they have access to, but I feel like they could have made it less, like, just full on the flight suit, like, maybe the pants and maybe a shirt. Like a different kind of shirt.

01:10:06
Diana Degarmo
Yeah, different color, even.

01:10:08
Sam
I just. I want to say this, like, in general, to anyone writing, like, an exploration space movie, no one should ever be wearing white to explore anything. It is not practical. And the parents were wearing white. Sindel was wearing white. I get it. Haas is different. It was an ice planet. People had to wear white. Please, please. If you are writing something or you were costuming for anything that has exploration in it, do not have your main characters wear white. It doesn't make sense to me, and it should be dirtier. And it always bothers me throughout the film that the white is not dirtier than it should be. I won't even wear white because I ride the subway, and I'm only doing that for maybe an hour.

01:10:50
Sam
Okay, guys, do not put your characters in white unless it's something allegoric and they are not exploring. It's just a psa for me. I'm good now.

01:10:59
Case
Even white khaki, frankly, is too much. Like, make it some darker tones.

01:11:03
Sam
No, like, seriously, like, I like. What are you doing? I don't understand. All these space movies putting people in white don't do it. If they're touching down on planets, that might be swamps. Why would they wear white? It's not practical.

01:11:18
Case
Yeah, Cindy looks a lot better in the second movie because she's got the same outfit, but they, like, put her in, like, fur wraps on top of that and, like. Yeah, if they had, like, look, if she touched down wearing, like, those clothes and then, like, she's cold and they, like, give her some extra layers or something like that would have been solved. That issue right there. And likewise with mace, he could have been like, I'm cold. And they give him, like, a cool fur coat, like, or something.

01:11:40
Sam
First of all, he would have been a baller in a good fur coat.

01:11:43
Case
That's true.

01:11:44
Diana Degarmo
What about a fur vest? A nice fur, long fur vest? Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, there you go.

01:11:49
Case
Yeah, like, let him, like, show off the guns maybe, and look, well, he's.

01:11:53
Diana Degarmo
Got that one ripped sleeve. You know, he wants to really show off that arm.

01:11:56
Case
Yeah, yeah, that could have been a good look instead of him just wearing, again, Luke's fucking flight suit from the first two movies.

01:12:03
Diana Degarmo
Yeah, literally.

01:12:04
Case
I think that they were too married to, like, Star wars eventually became, like, a particular type of fandom to, like, their audiences. Like, by the time we get to, like, the nineties and, like, phantom menace and so forth, like, lightsaber fights and all that had become, like, so integral to, like, what people fantasized about Star wars that I wonder if this is too early to know what people wanted. And they just wanted, like, any. They were, like, looking for whatever, like, costume detail would sell Star wars to the audience. And I kind of just wish that they toned it down a little because. And, like, put other spots in there. Like, put. Just put random.

01:12:38
Case
Like I said, just, like, just take all your random crap and, like, throw it on, like, some fake tables that look like ewoks are, like, trying to figure out what this stuff is. Like, you could have a cute scene of an Ewok looking at. At a thing and, like, you're. You're selling the Star wars there. You don't need him to wear the literal same clothes as a character from the main movies. Yeah, so that's my secondary pitch.

01:12:54
Sam
The costuming put statues everywhere. R. Yeah, no, actually, maybe r.

01:13:02
Case
Could be the new cult that rises up and, like, maybe there's, like, this whole thing about religious wars. A little Ewok. Martin Luther is, like, nailing to a door.

01:13:10
Sam
Like, it's a. It's a. It's a secondary. That's why you're not in the big Ewok village. This is the secondary village that follows r completely. They separated, and, you know, that is where they're at.

01:13:25
Diana Degarmo
I mean, they're living their own truth on their own.

01:13:28
Case
Yes. Maybe that's the why. Like, going to see the seers from the c three po camp, and there's, like. There's, like, a little bit of, like, a. Like, oh, it's the r two detours here.

01:13:37
Diana Degarmo
It's like, it causes some angst, you know, gives us a little drama, but, you know, about how they're having to go there. Okay, I see where you're going, Case. I see where you're going.

01:13:46
Case
Right. Like, wicked's trying to explain it to everyone, being like, well, we've met the.

01:13:49
Sam
Real God, our lord and savior c three po. Excuse me. Do you have time to talk about our lord and savior c three po? His soul is as shiny as his exterior.

01:14:04
Diana Degarmo
What's the ewok version of a doorbell, then? You know, we got to have a doorbell moment. Ding dong.

01:14:08
Case
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

01:14:09
Diana Degarmo
Two coconuts come down, some r witnesses.

01:14:15
Case
This has been a blast. Talking about this movie, I was. I hadn't seen it before. We. We decided that were going to look at it, and I'd only heard bad things. And then actually watching it, I'm like, oh, this was a lot of fun. So I'm. I'm very glad that, Diana, you said that you were into Star wars movies when we approached you about movies, and that was a triggering point for Sam to be like, let's talk about this.

01:14:34
Diana Degarmo
I'm glad. Thank you so much for introducing me to this movie. I had heard of it. It really is really fun. By the third try, it was the charm. I could stay awake. It was daylight, and my husband and I loved it.

01:14:50
Sam
I will say to anyone who wants to see this and judge for yourself, this is on Disney, along with the second film, which is definitely not as good, but also has its own gems, like hidden gems. And wicked can talk, so there is no narrator in that one. And you can really see the development of, like, what will become willow in that, because Sindel is an orphaned child who is basically kind of the chosen one. And so I would say, like, yeah, like, you can always put them on in the background if you have Disney and, you know, sweep your floor, do some. Fold some laundry. Like, keep your kid entertained for a few hours. Your kids are gonna love it.

01:15:37
Diana Degarmo
Like, if you want to introduce your kids to the Ewoks, just like, pop them in front of the tv, turn it on, and.

01:15:44
Sam
The second movie goes straight into action. Like, literally, like, within the first ten minutes, the Ewok village is attacked. Sindel's parents and her brother are dead, and everyone is abducted. It's straight action.

01:15:57
Diana Degarmo
Everybody dies.

01:15:59
Sam
It makes no sense, but it's straight action, guys.

01:16:04
Diana Degarmo
Oh, but at least we have caravan of courage to get us to straight action.

01:16:07
Sam
So, you know, actually, that's the one that I grew up watching. I didn't even watch Caravan of Courage till I got older and I bought the DVD that had both movies included because the battle for Ender was the one that was always on channel eleven. So that's the one I watched also.

01:16:22
Diana Degarmo
That is a colder title between them.

01:16:24
Case
Like saying battle for Ender sounds like a movie that a Star wars fan wants to see, as opposed to Caravan of courage, which is a weird choice of a title. And also, it was only sometimes used as the title, apparently. I think this got a theatrical release in Europe where they called a caravan of courage, but the initial advertising was just Ewok adventure.

01:16:43
Sam
Yeah, you look it up on IMDb, it is actually logged in as an Ewok adventure. Like, it's. You don't actually, like, it says any walk adventure and then, like, underneath it says, like, caravan of courage, like, in parentheses. So, like, I don't know. It's. It's billed by that name, even though it's called Caravan of Courage. Any walk adventure. I don't know. I don't know.

01:17:08
Case
Yeah. But what I do know is that people should find and follow our guest Diana and check out all the things she's doing since I think we're kind of done with conversation. So you plugged a little bit at the beginning, but give all the plugs where people can find you, what projects going on, everything.

01:17:27
Diana Degarmo
Sure, sure. Well, you can always follow me on Instagram. Ianad Young. That is my married name or Facebook. Diana Degarmo. Still performing as Diana DeGarmo, but somebody else took my name, so I just had to go with what I got. But anyways, yeah, I'm on there to keep in touch with folks and keep people up to date, but, you know, I try to live outside of social media when I can. So that's why, you know, case, I'm glad we crossed paths when we did because I'm so happy I came out today. This has been a lot of fun. I loved going down the rabbit hole with you guys. Coming up next, I am doing a virtual production of the show. First date is finally airing. Woohoo. My husband and I actually both.

01:18:10
Diana Degarmo
That was the first job we did together since 2020, which was really fun. We got to film it from home. That's going to be airing on stellartickets.com July 23 through 25th. So if by chance you catch that it's just five performances, and then after that, I'm going to be at stages of St. Louis playing Patsy Cline and always patsy Cline. And then after that, who knows where the wind will take me?

01:18:35
Case
Well, it's been so fun watching your career. I'm so glad that we got to work together all those years ago and that we've kept in touch a bit. So thank you. Thank you again for coming on. Everyone should check out all the stuff you're doing. Very cool.

01:18:49
Sam
Thank you for coming on.

01:18:50
Diana Degarmo
I appreciate it. Sam and case, you guys are great, and I love your podcast. Keep up the great work. I can't wait to see where you go with Superman.

01:18:59
Case
Well, speaking of podcasts, if people want to check out more ewok fun, we actually did a mini story on our scruffy Nerf herders, our Star Wars D and D game podcast. So if you guys check out episodes 55 and 56, which are ewok this way and ewok on the wild side, you can have a little bit of a Star wars ewok story that I was the dungeon master for. And spoiler alert, our players leaned into all the sort of funnier, bloodier kind of tropes about Ewok. So check that out. It was a lot of fun to do. And you can find a bunch of other shows@certainpov.com. Including that, such as we referenced Ministeel, which is my Superman Appreciation podcast. And then we've got tons of great shows. I'm going to give a shout out for screensnark on this one.

01:19:40
Case
It's a great show with Matt Storm and Rachel quirky Schenck where they bring guests on to just have a casual conversation about the media that's like, in their minds at the time, like what's going on in the zeitgeist for them, what are they feeling? What's cool, what, you know, what's caught their attention. And it's a really fun, casual conversation. Check that out. It's also@certainpov.com which is where you can find a link to our discord server. We normally like to do these calls on Discord, but we didn't this time for reasons I can't explain. And it's probably a mistake. But you can come share memes with us and interact outside of that. You can find me on Twitter acen. Sam, where can they find you?

01:20:14
Sam
They can find me here and nowhere else because I may still be a figment of cases imagination, but if you have complaints about anything I said today, especially how I told you that I will die on this hill defending ewoks, you can find case at.

01:20:30
Case
Well, you can find another pass on Twitter at another pass. So that if you have complaints about Sam liking ewoks or complaints about me liking ewoks, because fight me. If you want to come after Sam, you're coming after me.

01:20:41
Sam
Yeah, yeah, I'll jump in too.

01:20:44
Case
Me too. But check all that out. Come find us. It's been a lot of fun having this conversation and we have plenty more ahead of us. Well, Sam, take us home.

01:20:55
Sam
Next time on another pass, we'll be talking about Highlander two, the quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.

01:21:08
Case
Thanks for listening to certain point of views. Another pass podcast. Don't miss an episode. Just subscribe and review the show on iTunes. Just go to certainpov.com dot. But I was saying before you got on, Sam, I actually hadn't seen this before, I realized, and I ended up really liking it.

01:21:44
Sam
Most people who've seen Ewok films believe that they're watching the second film and the second film, so the battle for Endor actually ended up on everything all of the time. Like, that was the one who's played that one is arguably less good than this one, as a lot of sequels tend to be, though. It starts really dark, so it's starring Sindel and wicked, and they do away with the narrator because at this point, Sindel has spent a lot of time on the planet on Endor with her parents, repairing the ship so they can fly away. So wicked and her have become BFF's and he's learned English, so he translates for the other ewoks and stuff like that. But pretty much within the first, like five, seven minutes of the movie, her entire family's killed and they're just like murdered.

01:22:42
Sam
Like, her dad dies in front of her mom dies in front of her, Mace dies in front of her, and she's kidnapped by the sorceress at who, by the way? There is a sorceress in that one and her henchmen with the other ewoks and her and wicked managed to escape through a little crack in the casing that they were in, and they get out and then they have to go rescue the other ewoks and the rest of the planet. So that movie is infinitely worse. But caravan courage is great, and I will die on this.

01:23:14
Diana Degarmo
I was thrilled. I was thrilled it started. I was ready to jump on that train. It was so good.

01:23:20
Case
I have notes, but, like, I'm actually, like, kind of like.

01:23:29
Sam
Okay, guys, this is basically lord of the Rings meets Star wars teddy bears.

01:23:36
Case
Basically. Yeah.

01:23:36
Diana Degarmo
Yes.

01:23:37
Sam
That's what this movie is.

01:23:38
Case
Yeah. I mean, it is like, it's caravan of courage instead of fellowship of Ring of the ring.

01:23:43
Sam
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's still a caravan. They still pick up people. They still have magically imbued items.

01:23:51
Case
Yeah.

01:23:51
Sam
There's a giant fucking spider. It's basically lord of the Rings.

01:23:56
Case
Right? Oh, and then they have, like, my favorite addition to the Ewok lore, which is the barbarian ewok that they get.

01:24:04
Diana Degarmo
Oh, the huntsman.

01:24:05
Case
Yes.

01:24:08
Sam
First of all, suga tux, like, his final stand. I know his final stand, guys, there were tears this time.

01:24:18
Case
No, no, we'll talk about that, too.

01:24:20
Diana Degarmo
Oh, yeah, we're coming back to that one.

01:24:22
Sam
Yeah. But I have to say that I was like. I was like. He gave it all for them. He's gonna do his final stance so they can all get away. And honestly, like, it was amazing. Chugga tuk's final stand. This is the moment.

01:24:42
Diana Degarmo
Hey, there, screen beans.

01:24:43
Sam
Have you heard about screen snark?

01:24:45
Case
Rachel, this is an ad, bro. They aren't screen beans until they listen to the show.

01:24:49
Sam
Fine.

01:24:50
Diana Degarmo
Potential.

01:24:51
Sam
Screen beans. You like movies and tv shows, right?

01:24:54
Case
I mean, who doesn't? Screen Snark is a casual conversation about the movies and television shows that are shaping us as we live our everyday lives.

01:25:01
Sam
That's right, Matt.

01:25:02
Diana Degarmo
We have a chat with at least.

01:25:04
Sam
One incredible guest every episode, hailing from all walks.

01:25:07
Case
We've interviewed chefs, writers, costumers, musicians, yoga.

01:25:11
Sam
Teachers, comedians, burlesque dancers, folks in the.

01:25:14
Case
Film and tv industry, and more. We'd be delighted for you to join us every other Monday on the certain.

01:25:19
Diana Degarmo
POV podcast network or wherever you get.

01:25:22
Sam
Your podcasts, fresh and tasty off the presses.

01:25:25
Case
What? That's. No, that's not.

01:25:27
Sam
Can I call them screen beans now?

01:25:30
Diana Degarmo
Fine, screens.

01:25:37
Case
So tune in and we'll see you at the movies or on a couch somewhere.

01:25:56
Sam
Are you tired of watching your beloved characters being tortured by careless authors? Are you sick of feeling like they could have swapped out? All of the painful action on the plot would remain untouched? Subscribe to books that the fortnightly Book review podcast focusing on fictional depictions of trauma. We assume that the characters reactions are reasonable and focus on how badly or well they were served by their authors. Join us for our minor character spotlights, main character discussions, and favorite non traumatic things in the dark books we love. Find us on Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts CPOV, certainpov.com.

Overview:

●      The meeting discussed analyzing the Star Wars TV movie "Caravan of Courage" with guest Diana Degarmo. Case Aiken and Sam Alicea explored nostalgic appeal, character dynamics, and detailed critiques. Mace's similarity to Luke Skywalker led to mixed reactions, criticizing the slow start but praising immersive fantasy elements. Insights on missed world-building opportunities within budget constraints were shared, emphasizing storytelling execution and visual effects consistency for a memorable viewing experience.

●      Participants highlighted character motivations, scene structure, and costume choices for audience engagement. Suggestions included emphasizing family dynamics, action sequences, and aligning with established lore. Character arcs like Wicket's bravery, Sindel's growth, and Mace's pivotal role were appreciated. The film's blend of fantasy elements akin to "Lord of the Rings" featuring Ewoks and standout scenes like Chukha-Trok's final stand evoked emotional responses from viewers.

●      Guest Diana Degarmo shared updates on her virtual production airing on stellar tickets.com and live performances at Stages of St. Louis. During lighthearted banter, participants discussed alternative titles and creative scenarios involving Ewok tribes' interactions inspired by popular movies. The exchange showcased analytical critique, nostalgic reminiscence, and future project promotions with humor-driven observations reflecting genuine enthusiasm for cinematic discussions.

●      Overall, the meeting delved into the Caravan of Courage movie with depth, balancing critical analysis with nostalgic enjoyment. Despite minor continuity issues, participants found value in dissecting this unique addition to Star Wars media history. The blend of analytical depth, affectionate reminiscence, and future project promotion highlighted the group's passion for cinematic discussions.

Outline:

●      Chapter 1: Planning the Production (02:35 - 03:54)

●      02:35: Discussion begins on planning a production for an outdoor stage.

●      02:48: Consideration for scheduling and flights is mentioned.

●      Chapter 2: Script Length and Narration (10:59 - 17:42)

●      10:59: Mention of the original draft being shorter and George Lucas padding the script.

●      16:43: Narration in the movie is discussed, with opinions on its timing and necessity.

●      Chapter 3: Challenges and Adjustments (21:38 - 23:14)

●      21:38: Discussion on trimming the movie for better pacing and audience engagement.

●      23:14: Timeline issues and the impact on storytelling are highlighted.

●      Chapter 4: Character Development and Dialogue (30:00 - 31:10)

●      30:00: Concerns raised about writing quality and casting choices.

●      31:10: Specific character choices and their effects on the narrative are mentioned.

●      Chapter 5: Editing and Commercial Breaks (54:24 - 57:54)

●      54:24: Focus on editing techniques and working within constraints.

●      57:54: Mention of commercial break placements and maintaining clarity in storytelling.

●      Chapter 6: Narrative Adjustments and Action Sequences (1:03:36 - 1:07:02)

●      1:03:36: Removing the narrator and enhancing visual storytelling.

●      1:07:02: Emphasis on impactful action sequences and engaging the audience.

●      Chapter 7: Podcast Promotion and Conclusion (1:19:25 - 1:26:18)

●      1:19:25: Promotion of other podcasts within the network.

●      1:26:07: Closing remarks and encouragement for continued engagement.

Action items:

●      Diana

●      Plan flights (02:46)

●      Send info for a link to be included in the description (04:22)

●      Sam Alisea

●      Check if there is a 60-minute cut of the film available online (21:51)

●      Case Aiken

●      Research real spider webs to understand their stickiness (37:17)

●      Sam

●      Arrange a virtual production of the show "First Date" airing on stellartickets.com from July 23rd to 25th (00:41)

●      Will be at Stages of St. Louis playing Patsy Cline in "Always...Patsy Cline" after that (01:18)

Notes:

●      📌 Meeting Preparation

●      Planning flights and scheduling a Zoom call

●      📊 Discussion on Storytelling

●      Storytelling through body language for children

●      Use of body language and minimal language for clear communication

●      🌟 Narration and Language Use

●      Narration challenges in storytelling without voice or translation

●      Importance of clear communication for all ages, including children

●      🚀 Creative Setting Ideas

●      Fantasy setting with floating carts and flying disc elevators

●      Utilizing imaginative elements like floating cities

●      🎬 Storyboard and Visuals

●      Incorporating crash visuals for better context and impact

●      Suggestions for visual effects like fire and smoke

●      📝 Script Editing and Clarity

●      Rewriting script for better communication of crash scene

●      Emphasizing clarity in scriptwriting and visual storytelling

●      📚 Character Development and Communication

●      Establishing written language through Ewok runes

●      Using images and symbols for storytelling clarity

●      🔑 Action Sequences and Story Beats

●      Implementing concise and clear action beats in the narrative

●      Ensuring a smooth transition between scenes for better pacing