Tom Hanks is known as a talented actor and producer, but once he wrote and directed a well received period piece about a very archetypal band with a number one single. So to talk about That Thing You Do, Case and Sam are joined by Jukebox Vertigo's Keith Lehtinen for a conversation that spans both a theatrical and director's cut and revels in the class rock and pop homages of the film!

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Meeting summary:

●      In the meeting titled "153 - Another Pass at That Thing You Do," the team reviewed and discussed the 1996 film 'That Thing You Do!,' focusing on the differences between its theatrical and extended cuts. The discussion featured Keith from Jukebox Vertigo and highlighted the film's strengths and weaknesses, character dynamics, and the impact of additional scenes. Detailed analyses of key characters, particularly Faye and Jimmy, were explored, with suggestions for enhancing their arcs and relationships. The soundtrack received praise, and there was a comparison of the music to real-life bands of the era. Action items were assigned to improve character motivations and scenes, such as Case Aiken's task to analyze key differences between the two cuts, Keith's proposal to adjust Lamar's role to avoid the 'magical negro' trope, and Sam Alicea's responsibility to develop Faye's character further and refine her final conversation with Guy. Community engagement and listener feedback were also emphasized, with encouragement to subscribe to and review the podcast. The meeting concluded with a teaser for the next episode on 'Highlander II: The Quickening.'

Notes:

●      🎬 Introduction and Overview (00:00 - 01:18)

●      Reviewing the theatrical version of 'That Thing You Do!'

●      Discussing the differences between the theatrical and extended cuts

●      Introduction of Keith from Jukebox Vertigo

●      🎸 Movie Analysis (01:18 - 10:00)

●      Discussion on the strengths and weaknesses of 'That Thing You Do!'

●      Comparison of the theatrical and extended cuts

●      Character analysis, including Faye, Guy, and Jimmy

●      🎤 Character Deep Dive (10:01 - 18:30)

●      In-depth discussion on the characters, especially Faye and Jimmy

●      Analysis of the band's dynamics and individual roles

●      Suggestions for improving character arcs and relationships

●      📀 Extended Cut Insights (18:30 - 27:11)

●      Detailed look at the extended cut of the movie

●      Discussion on additional scenes and their impact

●      Pros and cons of the extended cut

●      🎧 Soundtrack and Music (27:11 - 35:15)

●      Praise for the movie's soundtrack

●      Discussion on favorite songs and their impact

●      Comparison of the movie's music to real-life bands of the era

●      🎭 Character Motivations (35:15 - 46:22)

●      Discussion on Faye's character and her motivations

●      Suggestions for improving Faye's role in the movie

●      Analysis of other characters' motivations and arcs

●      📚 Extended Cut Details (46:22 - 56:43)

●      Further analysis of the extended cut

●      Discussion on scenes that could be added or removed

●      Impact of additional scenes on character development

●      🎥 Proposed Changes (56:43 - 01:05:32)

●      Suggestions for improving the movie

●      Discussion on potential cuts and additions

●      Ideas for character development and plot enhancements

●      📝 Character and Plot Enhancements (01:05:32 - 01:14:08)

●      Further suggestions for character development

●      Discussion on improving the final scenes

●      Ideas for making the movie more cohesive

●      🎬 Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up (01:14:09 - 01:22:58)

●      Summary of proposed changes

●      Discussion on the impact of these changes

●      Final thoughts on the movie and its legacy

●      🎙️ Podcast and Community Engagement (01:22:58 - 01:35:02)

●      Promotion of Jukebox Vertigo and We Have Issues podcasts

●      Discussion on community engagement and listener feedback

●      Encouragement to join the Certain POV Discord

●      🔚 Closing Remarks (01:35:02 - 01:46:06)

●      Final wrap-up and thanks

●      Teaser for the next episode on 'Highlander II: The Quickening'

●      Encouragement to subscribe and review the podcast

Action items:

Case Aiken

●      Review and analyze the theatrical version of 'That Thing You Do!' and compare it with the extended cut to identify key differences and areas for improvement (00:02)

Keith

●      Discuss the character of Lamar and propose changes to his role to avoid the 'magical negro' trope (11:14)

Sam Alicea

●      Develop Faye's character further by giving her a clear motivation and interest in music (44:56)

●      Edit the final conversation scene between Guy and Faye to make it less awkward and more natural (01:17:05)

Transcript

(Subject to Error)

00:00
Keith Lehtinen
I'm assuming I should ask before we start, we're reviewing theatrical version.

00:04
Case Aiken
Well, we're going to definitely talk about.

00:06
Keith Lehtinen
We'Re going to talk about that.

00:07
Case Aiken
Yeah, because my thesis is that I really like theatrical version just as it is. But the existence of the extended cut allows for me to have a conversation that what things should have come from theatrical, from the extended because I think the extended is too long. But they're definitely things I like in it more. And I have my thoughts on the different types of things that are in that extended cut.

00:32
Sam Alicea
What? No, never.

00:33
Case Aiken
I know.

00:37
Keith Lehtinen
Welcome to Certain POV's, another Pass podcast.

00:40
Case Aiken
With Case and Sam where we take.

00:42
Keith Lehtinen
Another look at movies that we find fascinating but flawed.

00:46
Case Aiken
Let's see how we could have fixed them. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to Another Pass podcast. I'm Case Aiken. And as always, I am joined by my co host, sam Alicea.

00:55
Keith Lehtinen
Hi.

00:56
Case Aiken
And today we are well, we're moving away from the way we have opened up this round of episodes, talking a lot about anthropomorphized animals. And instead we're going to talk about something completely different today. Today we are talking about a weird, unique movie. We are talking about Tom Hanks's only directorial feature. We are talking about that thing you do. And to have a conversation about this love letter to 60s rock, we are joined by one of the hosts of Jukebox Vertigo. We have Keith here.

01:28
Keith Lehtinen
Hello, everybody. Keith.

01:29
Case Aiken
Welcome to another pass. We've been meaning to get you on for so long. I'm glad to finally get you here.

01:34
Keith Lehtinen
I'm excited to be here. I really like this show. Some people might know I used to be on a movie podcast and I miss reviewing movies. And I've done that with you on occasion, which is a lot of fun. And every chance I get, I will always take to talk about movies. I love them.

01:48
Case Aiken
Yeah. And this is a good one for us to talk about because it's a movie. I really like when we talk about movies that are good but have things that I have a jumping on point for how we can converse about it. Because that thing you do, I think it's a great movie. It's not a perfect movie. I don't think anyone ever would have really said that. But it had such a catchy lead song. The rest of the soundtrack is a know the stars, like rewatching it. It's like, oh, right. Like because, like, literally I started the movie and I remember thinking, oh, right. Tom Everett Scott's girlfriend in this is someone who's big who is it? Who is it? Who is it? And then Shirley theron yeah, I was.

02:24
Sam Alicea
Actually like, she's in like when I saw her name in the credits, I was like, she's in this. And then as soon as she popped up, I was like, oh, right. Yeah, she was in this. Yeah.

02:33
Case Aiken
And then if you watch the extended cut, and I watched both for this episode. There's even more people that are like that. So it's a great cast. There's a lot of really good things going on, but there is that extended cut, and I think the extended cut is really interesting. Also, I think that the extended cut is a bit bloated from the perspective of, like, if this was what had been put out in theaters, we would have been like, fine, yeah, it's a little long versus the movie that we got in theaters is, I think, very tight. But the one area where it kind of falters is that it's like, overly tuned in terms of implying a lot of relationships, but not necessarily providing as many of the character details. And so in a vacuum, either of them are perfectly fine.

03:16
Case Aiken
And I'm kind of intrigued about discussing where it's different and what kind of things could have worked for theatrical cut, because it's also, like a really tight 90 minutes movie, so what are you going to do with it?

03:30
Keith Lehtinen
But I also just like talking about.

03:32
Case Aiken
This movie because it's one that feels kind of like a lot of people like it. They may not love it, but a lot of people really like it. Like, my parents really like it. It was a movie that was in a rotation because it was like, oh, yeah, it's nostalgic debate for boomers. And with that 30 year cycle, it came out in the 90s, looking at the those of us who were children of the 90s were subjected to it, and so we're like, oh, yeah, this is great, because it's exactly like it's what we think of when we try to think of the early 60s.

03:58
Keith Lehtinen
Right? I mean, I personally, I really enjoyed this movie. It was early on because I wasn't really exposed to music very thoroughly as a child, which is weird because I have a music podcast. But three things happened at once in my childhood that kind of opened up the world of music. I had a teacher who was an amazing teacher, Mr. Greg Jacobs, who's actually a recording artist, and he taught a class called Modern American Culture, and he taught me about all the music from 1900 forward. And that's when music kind of opened up to me. The second thing was my parents got out their vinyl collection and I got to discover some of the most amazing sixty s and seventy s and even some 80s artists.

04:40
Keith Lehtinen
And the final thing is there were several really good movies in the music, and this is one of them. I absolutely loved this movie as a kid. I thought it was really catchy. I've always had a weakness for this era of music, too. I think it's a very pure sounding music, but if you know about how the music industry works, it's also one of the most corrupted times of music. So it's really interesting to learn about that and we'll get into it. But I just love this cast. I love every person on this cast. So, yeah, you cannot say this is a bad movie to respond to. Kind of what Case was saying. This is a good movie, but it is not perfect. It's like a car that runs perfectly fine but could use a tune up. It could run a little better.

05:26
Keith Lehtinen
And I think that's kind of the angle I'm going at.

05:29
Case Aiken
Yeah, it's kind of like a car where you can hear the gears shift and they tell you nothing is wrong but it's really loud and it makes you uncomfortable every time you switch into reverse and you hear a click sound.

05:39
Keith Lehtinen
Exactly. Yeah. Just a little change. Make it perfect. I will say. I mean, obviously, Tom Hanks is an know, Hollywood icon. For this to be an initial directing role kind of nailed. Like, I'm sure he had a lot of resources, but, man, he nailed.

05:57
Case Aiken
Yeah. Yeah. That's a big thing I wanted to talk about just in the general discourse of this. Like, this is such a Tom Hanks baby. And it's the kind of effort that I know people who have done. Like, here's their magnum opus of everything where they're doing all these efforts and they're teamed up with Know, people are coming on, but it's their baby at every point of the way. Like, he wrote this movie, he directed this movie. He is one of the stars. He is the central person on every single poster. This is the movie that Tom Hanks just had welling up inside him for a couple of years and that he finally exploded out and then he doesn't direct another movie. That part I find just fascinating.

06:41
Sam Alicea
This is the one story case, he had one story to tell. He wrote that story. He's fine. He's good. He has a regular version, an extended version. What more do you?

06:52
Case Aiken
Yeah, well and the movie is, like, super Tom Hanks because he's written other things. He just hasn't been, like he hasn't been the everything as he is for this. Right. And this movie is, like, the most Tom Hanks movie that could like, I love when you get to them on the late night show at the end of the movie. And one of the other acts is a real astronaut played by Brian Cranston, but a real, like, who comes on to promote NASA and, like, well, that's a Tom Hanks move. Right.

07:22
Keith Lehtinen
Think actually, my last rewatch, I was kind of like, no, this is very strange because they take a lot of painstaking detail to make this our actual world. But other things I'm like, is this an else? Like, it felt weird to me. It is literally like, they reference the Beatles. They have an actual astronaut. There's a lot of things that are very factual in this. But then also this happened and I thought that was just so funny. It's just kind of like I know there's obviously movies based on the real world and reference real world things, but for some reason it clicked with me that it was kind of like, this is an else world. I don't know why that world popped into my head.

08:00
Case Aiken
I love that you say that, because I had the exact same thought, but I was thinking of it more like a Astro City style thing. Or this is also my particular nerd itch, which is that I love learning about things by way of analogs for them. And so where it's like, okay, here's us learning about the music scene in the United States in the 60s where we have this band that is this amalgam of all these different things. There are shades of the Beatles in it, but there's also shades of the Beach Boys. The fact that Thing You Do is a song that became a hit by virtue of the drummer coming in and being so on top of it makes me think of, like, how Wipeout was originally like a drum exercise because they needed to fill in their B side.

08:44
Case Aiken
And it was like, okay, cool, we just jam out real quick. And then that turned into a huge hit. It felt like it's Tom Hanks thinking back on the music scene of the early sixty s and creating this amalgamation of all these things about it to tell the story that is just like the er example of the one hit wonder.

09:03
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, and I do like that pretty heavy handed. Oh, one hit wonders. I like that. It's a little on the nose, but I enjoyed that real quick. I'll throw this out and then I definitely want to hear what you want to say. The other thing, because you mentioned those bands, it also to me, references a lot of bands that don't get talked about. Like bands like the Turtles who did like Happy Together and they did other stuff. But ask anybody a turtle song, that's the one they're going to know and literally a one hit wonder. And there's like a billion of those in the think that's really cool to kind of like this is an homage to them. That's one of the things I really like about that.

09:45
Sam Alicea
Yeah, I agree with you. I was going to say because you said that was really heavy handed. There's a lot of heavy handed things that happen in this film and a couple of characters that are kind of like, you should do this child. This is not a movie with subtlety. It is fun. There's a lot of great music. The characters are great, the acting is wonderful. Subtlety is not nuanced subtlety. That's not what this movie is at any. Like, Tom Hanks'character basically at the end, even in theatrical version, gives you a summary of what the roles and archetypes each of the people in the band represent. He's the fool.

10:42
Case Aiken
This is your five man band. These are your Power Rangers. So, technically, Jimmy is the Red Ranger, but he's actually playing the role of the Lancer To guy who's the Black Ranger on this one.

10:53
Sam Alicea
The fool, the artist and the smart.

10:58
Case Aiken
Faye, she's something special, isn't she?

11:03
Sam Alicea
Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Go get her, boy.

11:06
Keith Lehtinen
I mean, the movie basically concludes with Lamar looking at the camera and winking, basically.

11:11
Case Aiken
Right. Okay. So all right. Thank you. So, Lamar is the thing I was working towards in terms of anything in this movie that I would actually remove from theatrical cut. Lamar is the one that I think about. I'm not positive how I would do it because he's charming, but he is.

11:27
Sam Alicea
A mystical Negro, and he's inappropriate. I get it. But I love Lamar. He's so charming. I'm like, screw it. He knows the best jazz spots. Okay. You need the Lamar in there, at least to a nod, that he would be the person that knows where the right jet. That is a correct read on that. Okay. You cannot have a white guy tell him where the real jazz is. Like I'm sorry. You need Lamar in there for at least know Lamar's intuitive. He knows that Faye needs help. He's wonderful. I love Lamar. Leave him alone. He may be magical, but leave him alone.

12:06
Keith Lehtinen
I have a fix for Lamar, but I don't know if we're getting into fixes yet.

12:09
Case Aiken
We'll get to that later, then.

12:10
Keith Lehtinen
I know that's usually later, but I actually have a really good fix for Lamar, I think. Okay. Yeah.

12:14
Case Aiken
Because we'll have to talk about it because, again, he's super charming as a character. But there was a spot where I'm like, oh, yeah, him ending the movie as being like and that's the moral of the story. Wink or whatever. The way that it kind of ends almost makes you feel like he should be throughout more of the movie instead of just the third act.

12:31
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah. Almost like he was a narrator the entire time, but he doesn't show up until 80% through the movie.

12:36
Case Aiken
Right, exactly.

12:37
Keith Lehtinen
It's weird.

12:38
Sam Alicea
Real friend was Lamar that you made along the way.

12:41
Case Aiken
Yeah. I mean, I guess you could almost do it, like handoffs between the three acts because my read on this movie and I haven't looked at the timing on it, but act one sort of concludes when their music gets played on the radio. And then act two is them being taken under the wing, really, of Mr. White and then going on tour. And then act three is when they fly to La.

13:00
Keith Lehtinen
And everything from yeah, and it is good. Again, we're not into correct fixes yet, but I do have a few issues with that flow. I did also want to talk about my boy Ethan Embry playing Mr. Tobias player, which he did an interview saying that he believes the character's first name is Tobias because the bass player never gets the name.

13:23
Case Aiken
And he's credited as TB player.

13:25
Sam Alicea
Amazing.

13:26
Keith Lehtinen
He's like, doesn't he look like a Tobias in that interview? It's so funny. I really love Ethan Embry. It's funny because I actually recommended another movie to Case a couple of weeks ago. I'm like, hey, did you guys ever do this movie? And he's like, no, I'd be down. And then I realized, oh, there's like, three people in this movie that are also in that movie. And Ethan Embry is also one of those people. I think he's really good and he's a very funny actor. And I don't think he really ever got the shot he deserved. No, I mean can't hardly wait.

13:58
Case Aiken
We've talked about it off my can't hardly wait or our love of it. I'm positive. Or we've both said things on podcasts and yelled at each other across the Internet. Because Can Hardly Wait is a movie that I love. And I fully feel that it was butchered in the edit and should have been a much bigger cult classic than it was.

14:17
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah. And then we want to talk about the cast a bit more. I got to talk about Steve Zahn. This movie.

14:23
Case Aiken
Oh, my God.

14:24
Keith Lehtinen
This movie made me a Steve Zahn fan. I've watched so many bad movies with Steve Zahn in it because of this movie. Because I'm like, well, he was great in that thing you do.

14:32
Case Aiken
Yeah.

14:33
Keith Lehtinen
I actually tried to make a list of my top five favorite Steve Zahn quotes in this movie for this show. I couldn't quite narrow it down because I had, like, eight. But my top three are definitely as in, I wonder what happened to the onitas. Oh, I'm not here with these fellas. I got to so good. And when they're on the radio and Guy's like, yeah, we're pretty crazy in Erie. Pie goes there was this one time where we stayed up way faster and he couldn't even finish his own joke.

15:02
Case Aiken
Yeah, right?

15:03
Keith Lehtinen
Those three right there are just absolutely incredible. The writing where it is very obvious whoever's responsible for writing his lines a plus, give that person an Oscar because that was just such great comedic writing. I loved it. And great delivery, of course.

15:19
Case Aiken
And my understanding is that Zan was one of the first that they cast. So in a lot of ways, the band is kind of being built out. I think it was Zon and then what is it, Jonathan? Jimmy.

15:32
Keith Lehtinen
Jimmy.

15:32
Case Aiken
Yeah. Those were, like, the first two. And then they started kind of building out from there. And that dynamic, I think all of a sudden you could see, like, all right, this is how they feel, who they need. Because Zahn just nails that goofball role so well. But he feels like Johnny Storm. It's like this perfect he loves fast car music and is so excited about everything. But he is kind of like the mortar that keeps everything together in this band because he's the one that brings Guy on to it. He's the one who vouches for Guy's take on doing it faster and really kind of pushing them forward, getting them to stop overthinking situations, and often is the one to kind of sort of stop the fights. For what it's worth.

16:18
Sam Alicea
He's a chaotic mediator.

16:21
Case Aiken
Yeah, he's michelangelo.

16:24
Keith Lehtinen
He's definitely the one who seems to have the best relationship with all three members of the Think, in my opinion. He's the only one I think is actually friends with the bass player, personally, from my context. There's not a lot of text for that, but subtext. I also think he's by far the one likes Jimmy the like because Jimmy's pretty mean, not counting Faye, of course. But, yeah, he's really integral to it. And I really like Steve Zahn. And again, I reference a lot of other YouTubers and reviewers and stuff constantly. And there's a review of Tall Girl from Netflix by Cosmonaut Marcus. They're talking about her dad, which is played by Steve Zahn. And they're like this guy, and they don't know who it is. And it broke my heart. How do the current generation not know who Steve Zahn is?

17:13
Keith Lehtinen
But anyways, yeah, that's just my thing. But everybody's really I mean, I have to give another shout out tom Everett Scott, though, because he should have been so much more man. He had everything. He had leading man like Charisma, in my opinion. And I love how weird and awkward he is in this movie.

17:32
Case Aiken
Yeah. But also cool. It's that nice guy cool. Part of it helps that he's just tall. Like, when he goes to shake someone's hand, you're like, oh, yeah, he's got big hands. You can really trust this guy.

17:45
Sam Alicea
He can reach tall shelves.

17:48
Case Aiken
But I totally agree. I feel like this is the movie that introduced me to him. But then he was in a bunch of stuff right after it that I saw just going to this whole like, he should have been more Dead Man on Campus, an American Werewolf in Paris. And then, weirdly, he just fell into this role of playing grad students at colleges for a lot like he was in Van Wilder, which is wild to me that this is where I first saw him because in that he's the youngest that I've ever seen him in this movie, give or take. I'm sure there's something that I've seen that was around the same time. But this is the movie I know him best. And he's such a baby face in this movie.

18:30
Case Aiken
And this is where I'm like, Wait, but how old are these characters supposed to be? Because he served in the army. So is he like, 25?

18:38
Keith Lehtinen
I was always confused by that line. When I was stationed in Germany, I was like, Was his family stationed? And I'm like, well, no, his dad runs a furniture store. Why would he be in? And I was like, right. That's so weird.

18:48
Sam Alicea
It gives us this idea that he's much older than the other young men in the van, which is possible. But yeah, that is a very weird line kind of like thrown in there.

18:59
Case Aiken
Well, and Ethan Embry is so young when this movie was made. He was 17 when they cast him. So I don't know if he had turned 18 by the time they were filming or not, but just a true child at this point compared to I guess it could be like kind of like a screech situation on Saved by the Bell or Dustin Diamond. I mean, the others are all very they're adults, but they're doing stuff at their college. Girls at the talent show was one of the things they were talking about.

19:31
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, they're townies, I guess they do all drink alcohol. We know that much. They all drink unless they're legally drinking. They're at least 21, so that's good.

19:41
Case Aiken
Or was it 18 at the time? Was it in the 60s? Because I know it fought back and forth a few times on that one.

19:48
Sam Alicea
It did.

19:48
Case Aiken
I don't know. But they do go into more detail that he was in the army in the extended cut. So that is supposed to be the deal.

19:55
Keith Lehtinen
That's right. I forgot about that part of the extended cut. I haven't watched the extended cuts in a while. I didn't get an opportunity to watch it for the show. So a lot of that's going to be memory for me. But yeah, I just really like Tom Everett Scott. I remember when I watched La Land, which I like and I defend. People are mean.

20:14
Sam Alicea
Very quiet.

20:15
Keith Lehtinen
I know what's wrong with it.

20:17
Sam Alicea
I will be honest with you, Keith. I could not get through 15 minutes of it on a plane. I hated it that much. I was on a plane. I was trapped. I had nothing else to do. By all means, it should have seemed better to me.

20:32
Keith Lehtinen
I don't think it should have won an Oscar, don't get me wrong.

20:34
Sam Alicea
But I oh, no, it should not have even been nominated. It should have not even gone to theater. They should have seen what they had during the second day of shooting. And they should have been like, we need to all stop doing this movie. And I'm sorry to be that mean because I know there were a lot of people who worked on it, and I'm sure there were some good dancers in the background, but there was no one in the main cast that should have been in that movie. All right, please go on, Keith. Let's talk about that thing you do.

21:06
Keith Lehtinen
So I was bringing up Lala Lynn because Tom Everett Scott has a very minor role at the very end. And I remember when we watched it, I was like that's tom Everett Scott. And my roommate and producer Liz is like, I don't know who that is. And I'm like, that thing you do. And she's like, I can't hardly wait. She's like, not even I was thinking Ethan and burning my head for a second there. Yeah. She's like, I have no idea what you're talking about. So again, that's another one that was kind of sad. Just fell upon the and just the cast overall. Obviously, we've talked about a lot of them, but you kind of made a point of the really weird ones. Like Shirley Theron in a cameo role is crazy.

21:52
Keith Lehtinen
Chris Isaac playing Uncle Bob was amazing because Chris Isaac is an amazing musical musician. And just have him there for that one scene. I thought that was really great. Kevin Pollock as boss, Vic Cos. So good. There's a physical comedy thing he does in this movie that I use when I write because I love it where he's standing in front of the camera and he's practicing his lines and he has the cigarette in his lips and he's practicing the pee the and the cigarette is like, bouncing so fast. And I love that image so much that I've given that to multiple characters just because I love describing that. And then the other really big one is Peter Scolari played the host of the Hollywood Television Showcase, which was a Bosom Buddies reunion with Tom Hanks. And I love yeah.

22:44
Keith Lehtinen
But yeah, just a crazy cast, basically.

22:47
Sam Alicea
And Rita Wilson also has, like a little cameo.

22:50
Case Aiken
Yeah, I was going to mention her. She has the bigger one of the Hanks clan. But then Colin Hanks also has one. And I think his daughter also has a small one.

23:00
Keith Lehtinen
She does.

23:00
Case Aiken
Yeah. And then there's like just the weird cameo and the extended cut, which is Howie Long.

23:07
Keith Lehtinen
Actually, I told my roommate he watched it with me to give me his feedback. My other roommate, her husband, about how he longed I loved this. I was like, there's an extended cut. And then this we find out spoiler. In case anyone's worried about the extended cut, we find out that Tom Hanks has a husband. And I was like, it's a famous man. I will give you all day to guess who this is. You will not guess who played this role. And he started naming actors. I'm like, it's not an actor. He's like, musicians. I'm like, it's not a musician. He's just like, what's left? And I was like, it's Howie Long.

23:43
Case Aiken
He's like, what?

23:45
Keith Lehtinen
So yeah, I love that too.

23:47
Case Aiken
Just so yeah, just of course Tom Hanks would be able to when it's like, oh, I'm going to shoot this little movie with all my friends. All of his friends are like giant celebrities throughout the so, you know, it makes sense. This is not like the movie that got Tom Hanks into movies, which would be the case for a lot of your goodwill hunting kind of things. Like the breakout thing. No. He was so far into his career at this point. This is well, after forrest Gump. Yeah, right around the time that we did Apollo 13. John Demi has an appearance in this because Demi is the one who pushed him to go into actually directing this movie.

24:31
Keith Lehtinen
Think it's again. I love the movie. I think it's great. Obviously, as a music podcaster, I love the music. I think it's really well done. I think it really captures the time very well. But my other podcast is a combo podcast, so I do have to give a couple little fun, little nods here, which is that Tom Everett Scott, actually, if I remember correctly, and I'm double checking myself. Double checking myself. He voiced Booster Gold in Justice League Unlimited. And Jonathan Shaich, who played Jimmy Crazy Enough, played Jonah Hex in DC's. Legends of Tomorrow. And I hadn't seen him in anything since this movie up to when that show came out. And so I was like, wow, look synergy. And I love that. But yeah, it's just a good movie. It's just good. And it plays a lot on TV.

25:24
Keith Lehtinen
You'll see a lot on your, like, VH one, but you also see them like a TNT or TBS kind of AMC just playing because I think it's pretty universal. It's a very universal movie.

25:36
Sam Alicea
It's a classic story. This is not like a groundbreaking oh that's never been told before. Actually, the point of this movie is that this is a story that's been told before, that this is the story of a one hit wonder, of a fun of a band who just got lucky, got on the radio, got the momentum, and then fell apart. And that just happened all the time. And that's the point. But it's fun and there's good music and good performances. And I think the best part is that even though it's a story that you feel familiar with, you still feel things for all of the characters. And I think that's where it really shines.

26:20
Case Aiken
Yeah, I think it has the advantage over, like, a biopic, where, for one thing, it does not have to be a jukebox musical, even though it has a pretty similar format to what all of these are. And two, it can be condensed into the period that we actually care about. We don't have to spend too much time being like, this is what the upbringing of Elvis was, and this is the days after Freddie Mercury died for Queen. You don't have to deal with any of that. You're just like, no, we're focused on the story. We're looking at it through the lens of the drummer. But it only cares about the period, the day that he joins the band going forward.

26:56
Sam Alicea
You don't have to go crazy being like, wait, did that actually happen then? I'm pretty sure. Wait, because that's like, sometimes when you're watching a biopic, right, that's like the main thing that you're like, wait, did that happen?

27:11
Case Aiken
Yeah, you're not spending the whole time wondering, are they. Just like saying he's a better person, or are they saying this person's a worse person?

27:18
Sam Alicea
Yeah. How accurate is this? Do we really think that person threw that at the wall? Is this dramatized or was this an actual account? You don't have to worry about that here because even though this is a story that a lot of small bands had in the 60s, because the Wonders are or the Onitas. I actually like onitos better. The onitas are fictional. Right. We can just focus on what the journey is and don't have to worry about the rest of that.

27:52
Case Aiken
Yeah, you don't have to worry about defaming someone. Although then the weird thing is, then you have Hanks as Mr. White, their manager, producer, whatever, and he is, like, the nicest. He's actually very chill with them all. He has some zingers, and he might get annoyed by Lenny, but aside from standing up for Faye at the end.

28:18
Sam Alicea
Of the movie, he's so understanding the fact that he even let Shades stay in the studio, get your deposit back. Maybe he couldn't, but I was thinking I was just like, no. No one pays for studio times for a band that doesn't exist anymore.

28:38
Keith Lehtinen
I will say, because obviously it is approachable and universal. As I said, I think it is a little squeaky clean when portraying that era. And that kind of leads into what you guys are saying in that this record executive, it's like, don't you worry about it. Oh, breach of contract, no big deal. You know what I'm like? I remember that line always bothering me. He's like, I don't worry about it.

28:58
Sam Alicea
I was like, no one's going to jail. I'm just going to be charging you several thousands of dollars.

29:06
Case Aiken
Yeah. I'm surprised there's no point where the band gets their a**** kicked.

29:10
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah.

29:11
Case Aiken
That just feels like the type of thing that would have happened in the real world in one of those stories.

29:16
Sam Alicea
And the basis when he goes missing it's not that he's gone missing for nefarious reasons. He's at Disneyland.

29:27
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, I love that.

29:29
Case Aiken
And they were so ready with a replacement bassist, even though that was going to be, like, for weeks from then.

29:36
Sam Alicea
Yeah.

29:36
Keith Lehtinen
I also have to just the thing about the bass player that I absolutely love, a good old Tobias, is that every time they talk about the group, he's never mentioned every time they run down the group, faye is mentioned, but the bass player is yeah.

29:50
Case Aiken
And they always trail off being like, who am I forgetting right now?

29:55
Sam Alicea
I mean, even at the end, when Hanks gives his heavy handed, like, who are the architect characters? He only mentions three. And okay, look, I get it. Rule of three, things sound better in threes things like that. But there were four members of the band.

30:10
Case Aiken
No, there were five because they had fake.

30:15
Sam Alicea
Mentions. She's something special.

30:18
Case Aiken
Right, Tobias?

30:19
Sam Alicea
Nothing. Not even a name.

30:21
Keith Lehtinen
It's meant to be a pastiche on the fact that no one cares about the bass player. But that doesn't really work nowadays because everybody loves the bass players.

30:29
Case Aiken
Well, yeah, but I mean, it's the same joke as in Spinal Tap, where it's like, oh, died in a tragic gardening accident.

30:38
Keith Lehtinen
So great. But, yeah, I love that joke.

30:42
Case Aiken
It's a good running joke. This movie has a few good running jokes. It has one that I like, but it doesn't have a punchline, which is the always leaving the sign on at Guy's Dad's electronic shop. It happens three times, but the third time is just it happens to be on. It's not a joke. It's just like, oh, isn't it funny that's still happening at this point?

31:02
Keith Lehtinen
There are several instances of them setting something up, reminding us and not paying it off.

31:07
Case Aiken
Yeah.

31:08
Keith Lehtinen
And I think that's a victim of they're cutting to runtime, and it's an editing sacrifice. And I think the movie could really benefit from a couple of these.

31:18
Case Aiken
Yeah. And this is one of the ones where the extended cut does do it better because that last time that we see the light on it is the tip off for I'm blanking on the guy's name. The first producer, the first agent that they get, the one who's the winnebago.

31:32
Keith Lehtinen
Phil.

31:33
Case Aiken
Yeah.

31:33
Keith Lehtinen
Phil. Yeah.

31:34
Case Aiken
So he sees that the lights on, so he pulls up because he wants to go talk to Guy and he realized the guy's inside. So there is a payoff there. But we actually don't get that sequence in the shorter cut. Right. And from the standpoint of the information that they actually give, it's fine. I understand cutting that scene from the standpoint of like, well, it doesn't do much, but then the establishment of the light being on, like I said, there's no payoff to it as a thing. And it is, like one of the main running jokes of the first act of the movie.

32:07
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, there's a couple of things like that, which we'll probably talk about in the second half, but I mentioned it before, but I want to go a little more in depth with the music. I love the soundtrack for this playlist or for this movie. And I'm going to give my hot take, which Case knows, because we've talked about it in the past, that Thing You Do is a great song. Dance With Me Tonight's, the best wondrous song by a wide margin, the one that Steve Zahn sings. Imagine that. So I love that song. And I recommend everybody. Look. Billy Joe Armstrong from Green Day did a cover of it. I highly recommend it. And the other songs they do, All My Only Dreams, is obviously very slow and dreary. But it's good. I like it. It's a ballad. It's a ballad.

32:49
Keith Lehtinen
It's too fast, man. I love that. I love how Jimmy's never satisfied. That's a side note, by the way. Like, I love that.

32:58
Sam Alicea
Well, he's the artist.

32:59
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, exactly. He's the talent. And I really like little wild one. I wish there was a little more focus on that song as another song of theirs. But also, one of the strengths to this is the songs that aren't theirs. I absolutely adore the Diane Day song. It's such a good that's more of, like, 50s balladier. Sweet love song. I love that song. That's probably my favorite song on the entire soundtrack. Mr. Downtown is fun, obviously.

33:34
Case Aiken
Men with the badge in the night.

33:37
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, I love that so much. It's good. I really like the Chantrellines, though. When you hold my hand you hold.

33:41
Case Aiken
My heart you hold my heart yeah. I love the bass player, like, doing the motions backstage.

33:48
Keith Lehtinen
Yes. I love it. And then one I really like is I think it's the transition of them at the fairs traveling around. It's that scene of them, like, running around on the big map. It's like a surf rock medley, like, thing. Really liked that because I love surf rock. I'm a surfer, so that really helps. But, yeah, I just think the soundtrack as a whole is just really solid. Also underrated the credit song, which is also called that Thing You Do. But it's done more of a 90s, like, adult alternative style. I really like that song too. Yeah. Just great soundtrack. Nominated for Golden Globe. Maybe an Oscar, I want to say. Yeah. Academy Award and Golden Globe for best original song. Is that thing you? Yeah.

34:34
Keith Lehtinen
But I think you mentioned Jukebox musical earlier and you just gave me shivers when you said that. Because I was like, this movie would be so much worse. It was the exact same movie, but a jukebox musical.

34:45
Case Aiken
Yeah, but how far is this really from, like, it and there are good things and bad things. I would argue that Jimmy is, as a character in this is a Bob Godio type figure in a certain regard because he goes off and eventually becomes a music producer not satisfied with the work that he was doing as part of the free to. For one thing, they're free to have a villain even if they don't go very hard on Jimmy being the villain of this whole piece. But he is. And there's, like, some good character work stuff that goes on throughout it to sort of set up. No, no. This relationship is f****** toxic.

35:21
Keith Lehtinen
Actually, I think Jimmy gets the best postscript of anybody. It's my favorite because I love the fact that he not only got another band, he named it what he wanted to name this band in the first place, which is The Herdsmen. And then he went back to play Tone. Yeah, I love that. I love this. I quit. Ha, ha. I'm walking out of here. And I love that he went back to I want to see that scene. I want to see where he goes back to play Tone. And Mr. White's there being like, welcome back, Jimmy. And I want to see that. So, like, that's intriguing to me. So, yeah, that was a really satisfying think.

35:59
Case Aiken
Yeah. And they didn't need to go too hard on what happened to them afterwards. But it is kind of, I think, a trend of, like, or rather any period piece thing to be like, okay, what happened to them? Because now is now what occurred for these characters in the intervening years. And I think Jamie is the most interesting one because Lenny's is like, well, now he owns a hotel in Nevada. He's currently single, and that's a fun joke because he's the joker of the whole group and like yeah. All right, so Guy and Faye have a music conservatory, and they're probably doing just fine. It's interesting. I was watching the special features for the movie and they were talking a lot about how Guy starts the movie in a pretty good spot.

36:45
Case Aiken
While he might bristle under working for his dad, he has a job. He clearly makes more money than most of the people around him. He's well enough off that he can buy lunch or rather buy breakfast for the table when he dings Faye's car at the beginning of the movie. So he's financially in a good spot. He has a good setup to play his drums and do a thing, but it's a private thing and he isn't getting it there. But he's well respected. He's got a beautiful girlfriend who kind of might be into him because his dad owns this successful store in town, but whatever. Objectively, he's in a good position at the start of the movie, but it's not enough for him. But he never actually goes too far. He lands in a pretty good spot at every point. He never overextends himself.

37:39
Case Aiken
And that's kind of just an interesting detail when he is clearly the character who Tom Hanks is supposed to be.

37:47
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, I mean, they literally call him the lone beatnik, like, in that definitely. He definitely seems to me like, as you said earlier, he might be a little bit older, but I would only say probably about two years because I feel like they went to high school together. Yeah.

38:04
Case Aiken
He can't be older than Lenny by much because they were in a band together when they were younger, too.

38:08
Keith Lehtinen
True. Well, I think that was a joke. I think that was like, oh, we sucked. And they're like, oh, weren't you in that band?

38:15
Case Aiken
No, the church band. They talk about it.

38:19
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah. Okay. I thought you were talking about that gag in that first scene. But I do think he was, like, the cool guy that, you know, the cool person in school that isn't actually friends with anyone, but everybody agrees that person is cool. That's Tom Everett Scott's character. I like him a lot, but, yeah, I definitely feel like Tom Hakes really put himself into that character a lot. Yeah, I think it's really cool you mentioned her. So let's talk about it. Let's talk about Faye. How do we feel about Faye's portrayal in the movie? Not the performance, because Liv Tyler is incredible and perfect, but how do we feel about the role she plays and what happens with her? Because I have thoughts, and I'm curious.

39:04
Case Aiken
To see what you guys the it's good that she is the one who dumps Jimmy, as opposed to either some scenario where she walked in on him cheating or something, where it was like a big she had a moment to make it her choice. And it was a thing that didn't have to go any one way. So it is her having that agency I think is good and I think that she clearly shows that she is a very capable part of this team. The person managing box office, person selling merch, person who is definitely going to be the underrated one in a group. And I've been there before, so I definitely relate on all of those things. But she is in this very toxic relationship and it is hard to watch in this movie.

39:50
Sam Alicea
I think that there was something nice for me like watching it, only because I feel like I know that girl. I've seen that girl. I used to be in a band and I was in the band, so I wasn't selling the merch. But I've seen that girl. I've seen the girl who follows their boyfriend to the show. He is a narcissist. Part of the reason he is so attracted to her is because she's so devoted to him and his band and his kind of goals and the things that he wants and the things that he needs. And they're lovely, they're sweet. And Faye is sweet. She's kind, she's considerate of everyone. She's very observant, she's very smart. She's just got this one blindside and that is Jimmy.

40:46
Sam Alicea
And so I think in a lot of ways, it's a kind of accurate portrayal of things that you do see in real life that doesn't make it any less sad. And I think that's where you see Shade sympathizing with her and that's just a much cooler name than his actual name. So that's what I'm going with, guys. And you see the movie makes this case where you're watching this and I think it's also contextually. It's terrible to say it, but women were a little less forceful about this is before the 70s movement. I mean, yes, we have the right to vote already, so that's nice. But there's still a lot of women who are preparing just to be housewives, to be dedicated to their husbands.

41:40
Sam Alicea
We are in the middle of the 60s, so yes, there is a sexual revolution going on, but it's not happening in Erie, Pennsylvania, and it's not happening for Faye.

41:48
Case Aiken
It's 1964. It's the beginning of this.

41:50
Sam Alicea
Yeah, it's not happening for Faye right this moment. And so you kind of see that. So I think that what makes that last speech so powerful. And I did, as a young woman, find that speech that she gave so powerful and her performance so lovely is because it's the first moment where Faye really puts her foot down. And honestly, for me, it's like the biggest moment in the film. I know other stuff happens, but as a young woman watching this, I don't know, in my early 20s or my late teens when this came out, and I just thought that it was like that whole line, like, shame on me for kissing you with my eyes closed so tightly. Such a good line. It's that she's so blinded to who he really was. And it's just this moment of like, oh, my God, you jerk.

42:52
Sam Alicea
Like, f*** you. And it's so lovely, and she does such a good job with it. Liv Tyler does such a good job with it. And so I think my bigger issue, actually, with Faye is just like the last half of the film, actually, just because it doesn't feel like a true journey back into love. I think eventually she could hang out with Shades, but I don't think that it would happen that soon. That's my biggest issue. But other than that, right up until my favorite bellhop sends love her way. I love her character, I love her arc. I think that she's one of the more interesting characters. She's the heart of the band.

43:44
Keith Lehtinen
Exactly. Yeah, I agree 100% in that I love the character. I love the portrayal. My main issue with Faye is strictly what does she want? You know what I mean? What's her drive besides to be with Jimmy? And we never learn anything about and that's fine. If she was a background character, it's fine to not learn everybody's mean, but this is one of the main characters. Depending on the COVID of the movie, you get she's the biggest person on the COVID besides Hanks. Why? What does she want? Why is she there? Besides the fact she loves Jimmy? Does she love music? Is that a thing? Because she starts a conservatory with Guy later and it says they found it. So maybe she served a purpose in that. Is there something she's know?

44:28
Keith Lehtinen
There's a lot of questions there that I think could have been really easily answered. And extended cut goes into more stuff, which we'll talk about. But I think that's the biggest miss as far as characterization goes for me, is one of the best and most likable characters, really. Could have used a little more spotlight, used a little more like we know more about what the bass player wants than what she wants.

44:50
Sam Alicea
Yeah, that's true.

44:52
Keith Lehtinen
That's kind of, to me, a big, glaring omission. But I do love her. I love Liv, did amazing job. And I agree with you about the romance. That did flip real quick.

45:01
Sam Alicea
Yeah. I mean, there is a small implication in that last scene where he know, I'll step by. We'll listen to records and it makes it sound like, yes, she's a real music fan, but you never really get confirmation or anything like really drawn out. There's never a moment where they sit down and talk about dreams or hopes or things like that. Which would have been nice. Also for just building to the romance that seems so forced at the end between the two of them. You have lovely little tiny moments. He's definitely caring. Like, he makes sure that she makes it into the car when a security guard thinks that she's just a groupie or a fan. Which, of course, Jimmy doesn't notice because he's a f****** you know, when she's sick on the plane, jimmy's not the person who checks on her. It's Shades.

45:53
Sam Alicea
So there's these tiny little things here and there, but it's never substantial enough to make me feel like they should be making out at the end of the movie.

46:02
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, it's not a romantic thing. I believe Guy would do that for any member of the band. Like, if Lenny was sick, he'd be like, Lenny, you feeling okay, bud? He'd be the one checking on them. Lenny asks for $400 and he gives it to him. You know what I mean?

46:16
Sam Alicea
Yeah, that's pocket change.

46:18
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah. He's the one that would take care of any of them. Even Jimmy. I think so.

46:23
Sam Alicea
Whereas he's the mom of the band.

46:25
Case Aiken
Yes. But he clearly has a lot of affection for Faye throughout the way he behaved. He is a nice guy and would do the nice things for everything or for everyone. But he almost crosses the line into a little creepy at a few points. And it's because it's ultimately well, they are destined to be together at the end of the movie. That it's like, fine. But he comes in and right before Faye breaks up with Jimmy, he's like, the lovely Faye has to speak. Everyone pay attention. That's a weird like, if you're in the room with that where someone who is not dating this person is acting that way just out of the blue.

47:01
Sam Alicea
I don't know. I feel like Shades would do it if even Tobias needed to speak. I think he'd be like the hyper Tobias needs to speak and do some push ups. I don't know. I think you're wrong, case. I think he really would do it for anyone.

47:18
Keith Lehtinen
Again, we're talking the 60s. She's also the only girl, and he could be a very traditional, very well mannered person who would stick up for the girl. I never saw it as romantic for most of the movie.

47:30
Sam Alicea
And at one point he was just like, well, in this scene that I'm not quite sold on, he does say that he wouldn't be a gentleman if he talked about more about his ex girlfriend. And she goes, oh, gentlemen, I forgot what those look like. So there is implications and he's full of valor.

47:50
Case Aiken
He's totally like the team paladin and he's smiting those drums.

47:55
Keith Lehtinen
It's way more apparent in the extended version, which is what I'll say. They do a lot better of hinting at a possible romance later on the extended version.

48:05
Case Aiken
And that's the thing where why would we even talk about this movie that we all agree is great? It's because we know that there are things that they can do better because they were done. The the Jimmy relationship with Faye is such their thing because Faye kind of comes off as a person who doesn't necessarily have her own passion, but she really is passionate about supporting someone else's. Like she's really passionate about supporting Jimmy and his art and everything. And then when she's with you want to celebrate music, let's celebrate music in a way that's making the world a better place and doing it well, which I can get behind. There are plenty of things in my life where it's not my dream, but it's someone else's dream. And I believe in their dream that you can get behind it.

48:52
Case Aiken
The company I work for in a lot of ways is because I believed in my boss when he started this company. So it's not my dream that we're putting forward, it's his. But it's a thing that is working out well and so there's good support there. I understand a person not necessarily being like, oh, this is what I want to do with my life. Especially if she's like 24. Makes sense. But that relationship is then so well laid out. There's two reads you can do for Jimmy. One, which is just a straightforward, like as he becomes he rises into fame, he becomes arrogant and doesn't think he's too good for her at a certain point. Or there's one where he never actually cared for her.

49:37
Case Aiken
And I think this one's the more interesting read of it all, where I saw TV Chirps even mention that it seems like he has a past love that he's writing all these songs about. But there's a point and I forget if it's in both cuts or if it's just in the extended where he is talking about I'm blanking on the name of the song, the love song that is the B side.

49:58
Keith Lehtinen
All my own lonely dreams.

50:00
Case Aiken
Yes. He's talking about how he really likes that song and really wants to make sure that gets on the B side. And Faye is like, and it's based on me. And he's in the background, so it's like blink and you'll miss it. He looks angrily at her, but then when they're recording it, he's putting on a show to be that he's singing to her. And so I think that he has taken the idea that whoever his current girlfriend is who he's going to address these songs, these romance songs that he's doing in the performance. And so she is taking that as sincere. But for him, it's just the performative act of his sociopathic stance on being an. Like it's laid out there and it just keeps going until we get to the end.

50:39
Keith Lehtinen
I think Jimmy wrote every single one of these songs staring in a mirror.

50:42
Case Aiken
That's also possible, too.

50:44
Keith Lehtinen
I think he's like, oh, man. Looking himself. Man, that thing you do. Look at you 100%. He's such a narcissist that I think every one of these songs is about himself. And it's from the person that he imagines praising him. I don't know. He's so unlikable. And not that I dislike the actor because I think he does an amazing job of being unlikable. He's really good at that. And I love how he's I'm going to nerd out just a little bit, how sometimes where he's almost Vulcan like because he's got that elven, almost look. And then we will go and go into the studio because the point of all this is to record more albums. It's just focused. And it's like, I really like that.

51:36
Keith Lehtinen
So he's kind of cold and emotionalist, and he's just about like, I need to get my word out there. And I just really love that pretentious artistic look. Like, it's so good. I really like one of my favorite things about it is they're really good with visual imagery. Sometimes in this there's the shot where they're at their last county fair, they all wore gold. And that's when they found out they're number seven and they're going to La. In the shot backstage. They're all wearing their gold jackets still, but Jimmy's taking his off and they're wearing black underneath. So everybody's in gold except Jimmy. And he's also apart from the group. And when they celebrate, they all go in for a hug, but he's not there.

52:10
Keith Lehtinen
The camera actually cuts him out in the shot, and then he enters it a moment later just to hug. Faye doesn't celebrate with anybody else. So it's really interesting. They do that quite a few times with him where they make him very other. And I really enjoy that. I like stuff like that. So the other thing I really loved about the movie and I just have to give a shout out to is Colleen Atwood, who did the costumes. Colleen Atwood is a legend in movies, have made so many amazing everything, basically so much good stuff, especially a lot of American period pieces. Say what you owe about the terrible Fantastic Beasts movies. The costumes were pretty great. Halloween. Did those did Chicago. Did memoirs of Geisha. Edward sisterhands. Edward beloved. Sleepy Hollow.

53:06
Keith Lehtinen
Like all those and so I think calling outwood did such a great job with the costumes. Yeah, I just think that was one of the thing that really popped out at me. I never really noticed costumes very much, but my producer, Liz, is huge on costumes. She's always pays attention to watch a movie. And she kind of pointed it out, hey, this is really good costuming. It's actually very accurate. So many of the girls were wearing glasses because there weren't really contacts then, so more people would be wearing glasses. And just little touches like that I really liked. And then the hairstyling and the makeup and everything like that. It was very period appropriate, if not perfect, but appropriate, I really enjoyed.

53:40
Case Aiken
Yeah, it definitely feels like if not necessarily how the world actually was, it feels like what it felt like to live in that world. Especially when looking back with the rose tinted glasses of Tom Hanks in the 90s, thinking back to being like, I'm guessing like a preteen or early teenager at that period where all these music acts are becoming huge and there's a real shift in the art form at the time. So it just feels like a snapshot of that moment, regardless of, if anything's, anachronistic or not.

54:08
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, definitely.

54:09
Case Aiken
That was just a long way of saying the exact same thing.

54:13
Sam Alicea
Yes, it was.

54:14
Case Aiken
So, yeah, again, this is a movie that I like a lot, but in its theatrical form, it feels very so tight that you lose some of the character details. And so those are the only things I'm really kind of missing that I wish were in this movie. But I do want to pivot over to what's actually in the extended cut because that's what I'm going to be pulling from when we actually get into our pitches. And I sort of want to talk about what kind of things are in it because it's a full hour longer.

54:38
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah. Which is crazy.

54:40
Case Aiken
Yeah.

54:41
Keith Lehtinen
And I mean, I've made my opinion clear on director's cuts in the past because of the Snyder cut. But anyways but I think this is a good supplement. I think it's good choices. And I definitely think we could have drawn some stuff from the extended cut.

54:59
Case Aiken
So, yeah, let's talk about so, first off, it starts being the extended cut well, before you think it will, because there are a lot of scenes that are just way longer throughout this whole thing. Especially a lot of scenes early on with Guy and with Charlize Theron with Tina, you get much more of their relationship and sort of understanding what's going into that. I really like things like that because that helps inform more about Guy and more about that relationship that will at least be additional drama in this movie, aside from just like, oh, man, we keep on winning, guys. Everything's going great, guys. It really helps set up who Guy is specifically and what he is going through that's pushing him into this moment of being like, I do really just miss performing. So those are like nice kind of details.

55:48
Case Aiken
We get a lot more of the store and his dad, who is a pain. And on the one hand, these are kind of like my middle tier of the types of scenes that are in this. Movie of the added scenes. I mean, in that they do inform things about the movie, but they're probably too much like they probably should be cut, but they're still, like they're additive to what we're getting out of it. And then there are scenes where who cares? There's a whole bunch of scenes where it's like, here's a person just being kind of s***** backstage. Here is just kind of like a little bit of drama going on.

56:21
Case Aiken
One of the really egregious one is when they're about to go on live TV at the end of the movie, they have a guy who's just, like, yelling at his assistant about the coffee he got, which I'm sure is just like something Hanks has heard a billion times on set. So he wanted to make sure it was in there. But it's such just like, here's just a person being douchey for no reason at this moment. That is not what this movie is about, necessarily. It just is padding to the running time. And the extended cut is I guess they wanted to make it feel like it was worthwhile. But in terms of getting to what I would think of is a nice 100 minutes, 110 minutes cut of this movie, those are not the scenes that I want to put back into it.

57:06
Keith Lehtinen
I think the main thing for me with the extended cut is there is more with the bass player, specifically with the chantrelines singer that he has a crush on, because I definitely loved they.

57:18
Case Aiken
Actually get it on.

57:19
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, exactly. She's so pretty and he's so adorable. And I was like, I want head cannon. That's my head cannon. They're together. And so it definitely goes more into that. I really enjoy that. I also, again, do really like the addition with Tom Hanks, with Mr. White and with Howie Long interior or defensive lineman Howie Long.

57:41
Case Aiken
I love that scene. It's not very long. There's a call out to him later where White tries to get the astronaut grissom to say hi on the phone. That's too much. That's just Tom Hanks being Tom Hanks. Like, OOH, can I revel in the fact that I just love astronaut? But but the scene itself is pretty short and I think it's fun. And I hope that it wasn't cut because of studios being like, you can't play a gay Tom Hanks. Again, I don't know why they would cut it. I think the movie just ends up being so family friendly, and I think that was probably part of that purge to get down to that level.

58:26
Keith Lehtinen
As someone who's lived in the south for a good chunk of my life, I can tell you it's because this was meant to appeal to families and it would have gotten a reputation, and that's unfortunate. I'm not saying that's definitely what happened, but I can easily see that's happened. Philadelphia doesn't have the same target audience as that thing you do. Unfortunately, that's fair. I think that's part of it. I don't think if that was in the movie, it would have been showing on VH One every hour on the hour for six years. You know what I mean? Like, that kind of thing. So that's unfortunate. The fact they shot it, the fact it was originally in the story is great. In 96. That's really awesome. So just that being there. But I would have liked to have that had that been in there.

59:08
Keith Lehtinen
I think if this movie was made now, it would be in there, obviously.

59:11
Sam Alicea
Yeah.

59:12
Case Aiken
Because it's so tame, honestly, even if you have it, all the things that's in the extended cut, you wouldn't necessarily know if you were just like a kid who was not familiar with the concept of homosexuals. It could be tighter in a way that is less explicit, but it's not explicit unto itself. So I feel like they could have gotten through Censors on that one, but I don't know. It's nice and it kind of confirms stuff about White where it's just like, oh, it's just nice to know more about this character.

59:47
Keith Lehtinen
Yes. He's not just a suit, a good suit, right? That's pretty much it. Yeah. I do like about Mr. White, though. I do like how he is a little bit of a mother for them, even though, like I said, it did make him a little bit nicer and more squeaky clean than the reality would imply. I do like how he seems to want to take care of them and jokes around with them a bit, but still keeps the straight lace thing going. I really like that. Anyways.

01:00:15
Case Aiken
Yeah. Also in the extended cut, it is just more sexually explicit in general. There's more making out, there's more touching, there's more sexy lines, and I'm pretty sure there's supposed to be a b****** reference when Charlize Theron says, I'll give you my patented goodnight kiss.

01:00:35
Keith Lehtinen
Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. I can see why they cut it because it does not really feel like this movie at all. I like it. It's good. It's a good development of that. But it's definitely not necessary. And it definitely probably didn't fit the tone, I think.

01:00:54
Case Aiken
Yeah. The only one that I really wish they had kept in the movie, that's an explicit sex thing, as opposed to Howie Long one, the Chanterlins thing, when Tom Everett Scott walks in on Tobias's room, being like, look at what we're at. Look at what we're at on the charts. Oh. And then just walks out without saying a word, but gives a handshake as he's walking out the like, I thought that's a good scene. And that's such a good moment for both of them, where you're like, yeah, go to bias. You're such a shy little guy. That's great. And also, Guy is such everyone's. I like that being part of his character and just being affirmed here as well.

01:01:33
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, definitely. I also really like the extended stuff with Guy and Faye we talked about a little bit, but in the extended cut it makes the relationship feel like it didn't come out of left field more, I guess is the best way to say it. Yeah, it's just kind of like, okay, so maybe this is something but they both have people. That's probably the thing I miss the most from the actual movie is just a little more development of that which we'll talk about later.

01:02:04
Case Aiken
But yeah, it's weird looking at those two side by side because, again, one is just so tuned, and then the other one is so baggy, I guess.

01:02:14
Keith Lehtinen
Would be the way.

01:02:15
Case Aiken
I don't know, because I said bloated earlier, but I do need to emphasize that both cuts are great. Both are good movies. They're equally far away from whatever the best version of this movie is, but just in opposite sides.

01:02:35
Keith Lehtinen
Perfection somewhere in the middle.

01:02:37
Case Aiken
Yeah, exactly. So it's a weird one to talk about because it is definitely a gem that might while it might need some polish, it is definitely a gemstone in this conversation. This is not the 1998 Godzilla movie, for example.

01:02:56
Sam Alicea
What? It's a masterpiece.

01:02:59
Case Aiken
This is going to take a lot less work and thus it's going to be a lot more like precise work on this all.

01:03:05
Keith Lehtinen
Also, last thing for Extended Edition, for me at least, Guy gets a different ending and I don't like it. He becomes the DJ at that jazz station they went to instead of doing the Music conservatory. I'd like the Music Conservatory more personally and the session musician, like he did stuff like that. So I prefer that over the extended cut ending.

01:03:27
Case Aiken
Yeah, that's true. My head cannon was that it was like I just assumed that all of it happened but one was like a.

01:03:35
Keith Lehtinen
Specific I kind of took either or, but that makes sense. Okay.

01:03:38
Case Aiken
Yeah, it's hard to really say, but that's true. It is less exciting. Although he kind of becomes a podcaster at the end. It's like, oh, I just want to sit down and chat with the most interesting jazz musicians that I know.

01:03:53
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, I like him being a performer because the whole reason he ended up saying yes was it'd be great to play with people again, that's literally like his quote. So him becoming a session musician is awesome because he gets to pick and choose when he wants to play with and who he wants to play with. So I thought that was a natural conclusion of what he actually wanted. He was literally playing in a basement in the dark by himself at the beginning of the movie and then now he plays for famous people in La. That's an amazing arc with artists that.

01:04:26
Sam Alicea
He respects and likes.

01:04:28
Case Aiken
Yeah, but you know, he would have a podcast today whereas after they interview talking about their careers and he'll be like, you know, back when I was with the Wonders and overemphasize it. When it was a band, he was only in for like, four months, but at the end of every episode, they'll be like, all right, and now we're going to jam together, guys.

01:04:48
Keith Lehtinen
I would listen to that podcast.

01:04:50
Case Aiken
Yeah. But before I start jamming, let's take a word from our sponsor, Squarespace.

01:04:58
Sam Alicea
Speaking of talking about things, we should probably I feel like we're like getting towards pitch.

01:05:04
Case Aiken
Yeah, no, I think this is a natural segue for us to actually let's hear a word from our sponsor or.

01:05:10
Sam Alicea
Talk about some of the other wonderful shows on our network.

01:05:14
Case Aiken
Yeah, wonderful shows@certainpov.com where you can find many great shows like Jukebox, Vertigo or whatever this ad is about to be. Who knows?

01:05:24
Sam Alicea
It's a mystery.

01:05:25
Case Aiken
It's a mystery.

01:05:28
Keith Lehtinen
All right, Jose, let's go through our new comic day stack. We have a lot to review. I know. Maybe we've gone too far. Let's see. Marvel, of course, DC. I got image. Dark horse, black mask. Boom. IDW aftershock vault, of course. Mad Cave oni Valiant scout Magma behemoth. Wow, that's a lot. All we need now is a name for our show we need a name for our show about reviewing comic books every week. Something clever, but not too clever, like a pun. It's kind of cheesy. Yeah, something that seems funny at first, but we might regret later on as an impulsive decision a few dozen episodes in. Yeah, we'll think of something. Join Keith and Oswe for we have issue the weekly show, reviewing almost every new comic released each week. Wherever you listen to your podcast, video.

01:06:21
Case Aiken
Games are a unique medium. They can tell stories, immerse us in strange, fantastic worlds, blur the very boundaries of our reality. But at the end of the day, video games are fun, whatever fun is to you.

01:06:34
Keith Lehtinen
I'm Jeff Moonan. And I am Matt, aka Stormageddon. And on Fun and Games, we talk.

01:06:38
Case Aiken
About the history, trends and community of video games.

01:06:42
Keith Lehtinen
It's a celebration of all the games we play and all the fun we find within them. And there's so many more games out there, so we hope you'll share in that conversation with us.

01:06:52
Case Aiken
Fun and Games podcast with Matt and.

01:06:53
Keith Lehtinen
Jeff find us on certainpov.com or wherever you get your podcasts. And happy gaming.

01:06:59
Case Aiken
And we're back. So, Keith, I feel like this is going to end up being a collaborative process anyway. It's going to be a jam session of some sort. But there is still one and only r1 rule on this podcast, which is that I am not allowed to go before Sam in terms of giving pitches. And you are a guest, so you are allowed to decide if you want to take the first swing, if you want to have Sam take the first swing. I'm just not allowed to go before her.

01:07:24
Keith Lehtinen
I think I'm going to take the first swing because I think you and I are going to have similar things. And if we just don't to back, that's going to be boring. So this should be a miniseries, not a movie.

01:07:36
Case Aiken
Oh, like a Band of brothers type thing.

01:07:38
Keith Lehtinen
Because hey, one of my favorite miniseries ever, Merlin, starring Sam Neal, was only two years after this. And I could definitely see this on ABC. CBS, fox MVP, something like that. Running at the special event kind of thing. It's nostalgic. It can get replayed multiple times. I think it could have been like a four to five episode miniseries. Stretching it out, learning about the characters a little bit more. That's a structural idea. I'm going to ignore that idea for now. But that's just my first thought was let's just make it a mini. But if we're sticking with the movie, sticking in this format, we're sticking at that time. My very first thing is, okay, let me actually start with the easy one. Lamar. We talked about the way Lamar is an important character.

01:08:24
Keith Lehtinen
Sam made a very good point as to why Lamar needs to be there. My simple solution is Lamar should not be a bell. He should not be a concierge. He should either own the hotel or he should be another celebrity that's staying at the hotel that they keep running into.

01:08:40
Case Aiken
Like a Sammy Davis Jr.

01:08:42
Keith Lehtinen
Type. Yeah, he could serve the exact same purpose but just is there. And he is a name of himself. You know what mean? Like because when I first watched as a kid, I thought he owned the hotel because he says, this is my hotel.

01:08:57
Sam Alicea
Yeah, he claims ownership or he verbalizes ownership.

01:09:03
Keith Lehtinen
But then it's like, oh, no, he's not really. It's just him being really good customer service. And I'm like, just make him the owner of the hotel. Just make him the one running everything and he's just really hands on. Or make him a celebrity of some kind that stays the hotel that they run into in the little diner down there. He could serve the exact same purpose. He could point him towards great jazz, everything like that. And it would be less awkward.

01:09:31
Case Aiken
He's just outside smoking. That's why he's standing outside when you walk up.

01:09:36
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, exactly. And he could be less like, I'm here to serve you kind of feel that made it really awkward. Also, he doesn't look at the camera theme of the movie. Or maybe he does. I don't care. That's funny. So that's my fix for Lamar first, I think that would solve a lot of problems with him. My next thing, I'm not going to bring in too much from the extended cut because honestly, that's someone else's idea. I'm just being like, do that. But I do want the bass player in the Chantrelline scenes and I think that was well developed. I think he's a character that almost had nothing to do and then also in this day and age, I would want the Howie long scene in, but I understand probably why it was cut.

01:10:25
Keith Lehtinen
It's unfortunate times were in then and it's awful, but I personally would put it back in the big thing from the extended cut. And this kind of goes to what I was talking about earlier. I really want the guy and Faye Flirtation to actually be in the movie, to make that not come out of nowhere. Also, guy is a little too virtuous. So him being torn would actually be a really good character like thing for him. It's like, I really like this girl. She's with my buddy, though, but I like her, but she's with my buddy. That would be just enough to make him not kind of a perfect dude. The only thing wrong with him is he's really oblivious to his last girlfriend who's terrible. So who cares about her? You know what mean?

01:11:09
Keith Lehtinen
Like yeah, so I think that'd be a good thing. And then along with that did I say Tina? I meant to say Faye. Sorry, I'm looking at my notes and I wrote Tina. Along with that, I want Faye to be more developed as a character. As I mentioned, I want to know what her drive is. So I'm big on headcanon and in my head, they started a music conservatory together and she's actually involved in that. She's actually interested musically. And in my headcanon, she actually helped Jimmy write the songs and provided suggestions that he always took. And so she becomes the songwriter in my head, which I really like. The idea of her becoming a songwriter opposing to her ex, you know what mean? Like I think that's a really she, so they run the music conservator together.

01:12:00
Keith Lehtinen
It's not him running it and her raising their four children because her only motivation is to marry cute guy, have four babies. I hate that. I hate that so much. Yeah. So those are my big things. There's other little tiny structural things that I'm not going to pick apart too much little edits and stuff like that. But I think those are the big things. And obviously that would work better in a miniseries if we're going to extend every character, make more about it. But that is more of a modern fad. So I'm trying to stick in the think these are the things that would really structure it. Now here's the problem. We don't want to bloat the movie too much. So my question is what cut?

01:12:45
Keith Lehtinen
And I'm going to have to say, as I watched the movie, there was one glaring thing that I thought could easily be cut in this movie. And unfortunately, his performance was great and it was funny, but the original manager, Phil, didn't need to exist. You can find a way to transition them from being at Villapiano's tom Hanks. You know what mean? Like it would cut out everything with Bill, we could find another way to do the Pittsburgh Showcase. Maybe that's like something Tom Hanks sets up for them or something like that. You know what mean? Like, I just think that Phil, while he, is a necessary step forward in them, it feels like but if he was removed, it wouldn't really change much. The only thing I think we'd lose of value in that is the first time they hear themselves on the radio.

01:13:37
Keith Lehtinen
And again, I think that could be handled at the Italian restaurant. I think we can find a way to do that there. Maybe their fan oh, that's my other favorite lenny line is, hey, isn't that our fan? But maybe his uncle runs the local radio station. He gives him his copy, he buys his filipinos, and he's like, hey, check this out. He plays on this, and maybe it'll surprise them they're not looking for it. You know what I mean? I think that's the structural thing I would probably remove. I think that would take out enough to put the rest of this in. Other than that, I think everybody else has developed pretty well. So I don't really feel the need to add mostly anything to anybody except for that the guy Faye relationship is the big one.

01:14:18
Keith Lehtinen
And then the bass player give him some great. Yeah. Yeah. So that's my fix.

01:14:23
Case Aiken
Yeah. I really love the idea because I hadn't thought about this. I apologize that I hadn't put too much thought into what I would give Faye outside of everything. But I love the idea of her being like a Carol King type character, having this tradition of writing music. And Jimmy is such a narcissist who takes credit for everything. He takes the entire credit for that thing you do, even though it was a totally different style of song until guy transformed it by upping the tempo on it, that it would just make so much sense that he'd also be doing the same thing for every other aspect of writing the music.

01:15:01
Sam Alicea
And I think that there's enough to support it in the text that already exists, because she's the first person who really realizes the value of the things that Guy brings to it. She knows enough to know that without him joining the band, none of it would have that. He's the force that brings them. And she has moments of being like, oh, that works better. Oh, what about this? She even is the reason why they get their name, and that's the name that they agree with. It's really mostly Faye. She adds a lot to them, whether or not she's acknowledged or not.

01:15:40
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, you could literally have Jimmy writing the song and her offering a suggestion that he ends up like, you could make it literal, or you can leave it as is, because there is enough, like you said, already in the text to suggest that. But I like the idea of her becoming a songwriter. I think that's really cool. She's obviously driven by yes, she really liked Jimmy, but she also dropped her life and traveled across the country with a bunch of boys on a band, on a tour. You know what I mean? You got to love music. You don't just do that. You know what? So I really I think that'd be a good direction for her.

01:16:15
Keith Lehtinen
It would give her a purpose alongside Guy as equal partners that can work together to do things and gives her a purpose also in their later business, which is mentioned. And I think that's the reason why I like his ending in the original better is because I like the idea of them working together and teaching the next generation because they're both passionate about it. And again, that would give her something to do and more live. Tyler so that's good.

01:16:40
Sam Alicea
Sam yeah. Okay, so Kate can't go before me. This is definitely my turn. So I actually probably wouldn't change a lot about this movie. The only thing that I really would do is I would cut down on that last conversation in the cafe and instead insert a conversation earlier in the movie that is a one one bonding experience between Shades and Faye. And now I know because of our collaborative effort, that would be about music and that would be, like, a funny thing about the music they love and what she's listening to. And then in that scene, she could actually kind of tell her that she like, oh, well, I actually worked on the lyrics for this, or that kind of thing, where you kind of understand where they're like, oh, we're really vibing about music.

01:17:33
Sam Alicea
Because the thing is that the last scene in the coffee shop is awkward and really heavy handed, and it doesn't work. It doesn't work, especially out of the guise of whatever else happened in the Rest. It is an honest moment, but I know she's heartbroken, but honestly, when I'm heartbroken, I don't ask people about making out with their significant other or their exes. That's just not something I do. And again, this is a heavy handed script, so I think part of it is just like, don't worry, a kiss is coming. But I feel like that scene can be cut down so I get a little more bonding earlier on because other than that, everyone's really fun. And I know you guys want more for Tobias, but you know what?

01:18:25
Sam Alicea
No one cares about the basis, and I think we need to keep that joke going. He doesn't get laid. He doesn't have anything. He just runs off. No one cares about the basis. He doesn't even have an archetype. Screw that guy. I wouldn't have our favorite bellhop extraordinaire wink at the camera. I would just have him very honestly and earnestly tell him, have him say, hey, Faye's waiting over there, because the wink is too much of a magical Negro thing. We're not doing that. We're not going there anymore. So no wink. And I would still leave him the way he is. He's lovely. He's in the gift shop. He's everywhere. You need him. I love it. He's on the ground. He's working. I'm fine with him. He's charming. But no wink. No wink. Not like I've set them up.

01:19:15
Keith Lehtinen
Don't break the fourth wall at all.

01:19:18
Sam Alicea
Yeah, don't. We didn't do it before. You're not deadpool. We're not doing it. Just be helpful. And so I think they can have a quick conversation, but I would cut out a good five minutes of it and just kind of have them and then have him come out and be like, faye, wait. Why don't you stay? Make music? And maybe I may not even do a kiss because I know that was supposed to be, like the big moment. But it feels weird to me. It feels weird and forced. I don't like it.

01:19:56
Case Aiken
And it's such a line that leads into it.

01:20:00
Sam Alicea
When's the last time you were really well kissed?

01:20:02
Case Aiken
Yeah.

01:20:03
Sam Alicea
Also, like, wow, real shade on Jimmy. Because it was years ago and it wasn't even him, which I kind of enjoyed. But also, no.

01:20:14
Case Aiken
Prepare to have your mind blown.

01:20:17
Keith Lehtinen
I know. That's. So much pressure to put on your first kiss, right? Yeah. Like, you're like, oh, I'm going to kiss the s*** out of you. And it's just like, no. What if this is bad?

01:20:26
Sam Alicea
No, it's too much. And then she goes, well, it's still that guy from 11th grade and walks away from you. That's a lot. I don't like that. So I would cut that and I would just have her be like, make music. And she'd be like, yeah, let's make some music. And then you can still have the end where they eventually get married, have a conservatory and all that fun thing, which was really popular around those years. Like a lot of movies did the like, what are they doing? So and so went to college and blah, blah. So this is something that was part of the filmmaking just world in the late 90s, early 2000s. We really liked updates, even on fictional characters. But I would keep it because it's really great. And so I would keep it nice, sweet and short.

01:21:17
Sam Alicea
But I would cut some of that in order to give me some more up top. And I think in the conversation up top, if we give Faye's character motivation and love for music, then we kind of understand why she's willing or why she's so blinded by Jimmy. Right. Because he's so talented and she just loves good music. He's so talented and such good music. And it's amazing. But I did work on these lines. Oh, that's my favorite line. I think that would have kept it short and sweet and just added what needed to be fixed, which is just that really f****** awkward end. That kiss did not work. That whole conversation was weird. All right, case you can go now.

01:22:07
Keith Lehtinen
Well, I want to really quick jump in on yours. I love your idea and I love the idea of the conversation happening earlier in the movie. And my thought immediately, as you said that was like, what if he's listening to jazz and she actually shows an interest in jazz and it's the only person in the movie that shows any interest in jazz with him besides actual jazz musicians. I thought that would be a really great little touch, and then that would make sense for them to collaborate.

01:22:33
Case Aiken
Yeah. So in the extended cut, there is a scene where they are in the wrong dressing room. They're in the dressing room of what's his face? The Kevin Pollock's dressing. Yeah. So he's in their dressing room and he sees that there's like all these people have signed the door to the bathroom. And so he's, like, going through and he finds Del Paxon's name on it. And Lenny immediately pops up del Paxon and starts signing his name next to Del's. So what the weird spot is that Lenny does show in that extended cut that he has some of that knowledge. I really feel like the headcanon is that Lenny and Guy are actual friends back in the day that had shared interests and went and did different things. But then it's kind of nice for them to be back together, just being like, oh, right.

01:23:21
Case Aiken
That f****** record we used to play when were hanging out before you went to the army.

01:23:27
Keith Lehtinen
I'd completely forgot about that scene. Yeah, that makes sense.

01:23:31
Case Aiken
Yeah. But it's weird, that's Lenny's thing, because I do agree that I think that Faye having interest in music. It feels a little trophy of more modern movie kind of trophy to be like, oh, the girl is the one who knows all the bands. And like because it's like trying to be like, no, she's not like the other girls kind of way, which is not good unto itself.

01:23:52
Sam Alicea
We don't want to make Faye a pick me, but we do want her to have common interests that's yeah, exactly.

01:23:59
Case Aiken
Like, she should know about the music and be really excited about it. And that's why I think her having the writing component of it and actually being a part of the band, but just underrated, because they're all just taking it as Jimmy's contribution and she is part of Jimmy's contribution, I think that is an interesting way to make her have more of a thing. So I think that's f****** brilliant because I think that saves a huge issue that was just like, oh, it's not resolved in the movie that we got. And most of how I'm coming at it is like, well, if you wanted this movie to be ten to 20 minutes longer and wanted to go with things to flesh it out just a little bit more, because I think they overtuned theatrical cut. Like, they trimmed it down.

01:24:41
Case Aiken
Just a little too much across the like most of my stuff is like yes. The Tina scenes at the beginning are super helpful for establishing a bunch of things. One of the things they establish for Guy is that he is terrible about his girlfriends. Not intentionally, because he is super nice, but that he is so like he is pulled in so many directions and has this level of ADHD that I can relate a lot with. Yeah. I mean, his hobbies, his work, his everything. They all consume his everything. And so he puts everyone aside when he's with them. They are his sole focus.

01:25:20
Case Aiken
But when he is focused on something else, that is his sole he that establishes why he is both in a relationship with Dina and why it's like a good thing, but at the same time where the problems on his side are. Because she comes off as much more loving and much more into it at this point. As opposed to someone who immediately dumps him for his dentist or for her dentist. Pardon me.

01:25:42
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, that's funny because it never came up, but the I am Spartacus line, it's like a punchline that no one gets but him. And that's kind of like a reflection of that because I love that when they're talking on the phone, he says, I am Spartacus, and she's like, okay, and just hangs up the phone. I love that because literally in theatrical cut, I cannot remember the extended cut. I don't think anyone ever gets that. Even at the very end, when they're like, How'd you get here? He's just like, I brought you here for all right. I really like that.

01:26:17
Case Aiken
The extended explains it because they show the two of them tina not getting it on the phone is actually because she's got her hair curlers already in and she can't hear anything he says. But that's more drawn out in the scene in the extended cut of it, and in the scene where they're hanging out at his apartment. So we also are reminded that he was able to have his own place. He wasn't living with his family at that point. While they're making up, they're watching Spartacus. And then apparently it's a thing where he'll say it, and that's a turn on for her. So it's like part of their flirtiness. And that's why he says it to her over the phone, because he's trying to invoke that flirtiness from the earlier scene, but we lose that.

01:26:57
Case Aiken
And thus it just seems more like a weird like he just keeps on f****** saying he's Spartacus.

01:27:02
Keith Lehtinen
I like my version better. That's just a punchline that only he gets. We do that all the time. We'll say something that only we think is funny, and we're like, yeah, if you guys understood, you think it's hilarious.

01:27:13
Case Aiken
Sometimes you just have to have a C and not have to explain to anyone what the A or the B were in that, and I super relate to that as well. So, like, sure, I know you do so much. There are so many inside jokes I put into all of our stuff that are just for me. Go listen to the Josie and the Pussycats episode. Everyone, please look at the COVID art.

01:27:39
Keith Lehtinen
So jealous I wasn't on that, too. Yeah.

01:27:44
Case Aiken
Yeah. Well, I mean, we'll have a chance to talk about it at some point. Those kind of scenes are ones that I want the extended stuff with the dad isn't really that helpful. I honestly think you can pull very small parts of all these scenes because I think there was so much filler that they was obviously going to get cut for any theatrical cuts they just put back in, I think. I don't need more of Kevin Pollock. Like, that whole scene is fine, but I got it. I got who he was. We didn't need more cutting the first agent, for one thing, that's more of a reshoot than necessary.

01:28:24
Case Aiken
And I feel like he would still end up having to cover 75% of what he does because he would still need to get someone to the radio or get the song to the radio station, because the radio stations or playing their song is such an important scene. It is their victory. It's the break into two for me, because that's the thing that really pushes them into being like, yeah, no, we have won. We have done what we set out to do at this level of who we are. We're on the radio. And everything from that point is them then going and exploring their broader career. But, yeah, the scenes with Faye and them are practicing in the garage, I think, are really good at establishing more of those relationships.

01:29:08
Case Aiken
That's where we get that really good shot of Jimmy just looking angrily at Faye after she claims ownership of the one song, or inspiration of the one song, which sets up him being upset about the engagement thing. So, like, those are all good things. I want those in there. You just can't do too much, because then all of a sudden, it's a full hour longer. So it's just a tough balance there. But like I said, it's just polish on this one. I think it's already pretty solid across the board.

01:29:39
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, pretty much. And, yeah, I would feel weird about cutting the first manager, but that's kind of what I saw. You could also reduce the Italian restaurant stuff because that did go on for, like, three scenes that could be reduced to probably one scene, maybe. But maybe after they make the album, maybe have the guy ask, hey, where can I get your album at the talent show? And then you only have to really do one scene at the Italian restaurant. And you saw Faye selling the records, which I love that scene. I love her sitting there counting money. Like, I love that shop. Yeah, but I agree.

01:30:10
Case Aiken
Yeah. I just worry about the domino effect because one, it gives us a lot of good Lenny lines and it's such a good segue in for a bunch of Lenny stuff that I wouldn't want to lose that because he actually is a character you could cut down on dramatically and not lose any of the big story points. But he is the humor and he's the gel for the group. That's so important. And that's also why I think anything that adds to the characters of the band, I think should be in this movie. Like any shot from the extended cut that is about character beats or good jokes between them or any of that, I think that's really helpful because that's what we're missing in theatrical cut. To the extent that they do, a lot of it's implied.

01:30:53
Case Aiken
A lot of it is there, it's just not as much as you could get.

01:30:56
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah.

01:30:57
Case Aiken
So ultimately, I don't have a huge pitch for this movie because I already think that all the versions that we've gotten of it have been very solid movies unto themselves. Just trying to get it a little bit closer to that happy medium between the two, where it's not quite so tight, where we lose out on some of the character moments and all that, but also not so big, where it becomes kind of slow at points or scenes feel unnecessary or it would be an issue for Censors. Because I do think one of the reasons why this movie has retained its status in pop culture that it has is that it was a safe movie to be in rotation, in houses, on networks, et cetera. So it is the thing where could the Howie Long scene make?

01:31:39
Case Aiken
It is hard to say for like, we wish it could, but would it have been as successful in terms of people just knowing it? It definitely was a movie that we could have on VHS and just play out infinitum because my parents thought it was catchy and made them think of their childhoods and they were like and you kids these days, you don't know, but this movie kind of tells you. So we want to keep that part there. We want to keep it so that everyone is going to watch it. OD infinitum that the main song still becomes an actual chart topper. I think it hit number 47 in the real world, which is pretty good for just a tie in song to a movie.

01:32:18
Case Aiken
So pull little bits here and there and then if we could do more intensive reshoots trying to deal with Lamar because I really do like the idea of him being a Sammy Davis Jr. Type figure. I think that's a brilliant one. I don't know about him owning the hotel if it's going to be like a swanky hotel in early 1960s La. Maybe, but I don't know where that falls into all the different scenes and all the and whatnot, but a Sammy Davis Jr. Type character definitely could fit. And him just being around would be just like one of those celebrities that they found and they're so fawning over and it's like, yeah, no, it makes sense. He's at the hotel because he's doing a show or something like that over the next two weeks.

01:33:05
Case Aiken
And so they just keep on bumping into him and then it doesn't feel so strange or anything like that.

01:33:11
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah. He needs to not be in a position of answering to them. He needs to be helpful, not obligated. And that would make it less awkward.

01:33:20
Case Aiken
Yeah. Especially if he knew the hotel staff. So he could be like, Bellhop, grab her bag, she needs to go eat some food.

01:33:26
Keith Lehtinen
And that's some white guy.

01:33:29
Case Aiken
Right? Yeah, exactly. Make him very in control of the situation. And I think that then becomes really cool as well. And not unrealistic because we are directly calling out real celebrities. Yeah, something like that, basically. I agree with you both.

01:33:47
Keith Lehtinen
Awesome.

01:33:48
Case Aiken
Yeah. So I think we kind of knew that's roughly where were going to come down on this movie because were all like, yeah, no, were excited about this movie. And the biggest reason I wanted to have this on was so that we could kind of gush about it. Like a gush about the soundtrack, live in the moment. It's an excuse to rewatch it. Which is not something I often get for movies that I just enjoyed from my childhood that were pretty good, right?

01:34:11
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah. I liked rewatching it and my roommates hadn't seen it.

01:34:16
Sam Alicea
It was nice to see a movie from the past that held up, too. Sometimes we rewatch films and I'm like, no, my childhood is now ruined. Why did we watch this? I thought this was a good movie and I was wrong. But this is good. It's still good.

01:34:37
Case Aiken
Yeah. One thing we haven't talked about is the actual budget. It was a fairly modest budget movie and it was a modest success. It was budgeted at 26 million and it made 34.6, which is making your money back, plus, but it's not like crossing that double your budget kind of line that usually Hollywood says is where they actually start making profit. So moderate success. It opened at number three. It was never like the number one movie in the country. And I honestly think that the reason it has the status it does is because it was so family friendly and so such nostalgia bait for so many people's parents that it was an easy choice to have in the world in the release. It did well, at least in terms of VHS copies that were going out there. And so people just know it.

01:35:26
Case Aiken
But it was never a huge hit.

01:35:27
Keith Lehtinen
I think TV rights, it probably made as much money as it did in box office. It's been everywhere. So yeah, I definitely think that with it being such a safe, squeaky clean movie, I definitely think that made his success as far as just it's easy to market, it's easy to.

01:35:46
Case Aiken
Yeah, it's a good movie and it could be slightly better, but there's no version of it that's bad. And the soundtrack is fantastic. And I really am glad that we got to rewatch it and talk about it and have you on, Keith. So why don't you tell people where they can find you, follow you and who you are and why we wanted you specifically on for this episode?

01:36:07
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, so the best way to find me at the moment until it burns down is Twitter. You can find me. My Twitter handle is Podcast. Keith you can also find my producer Liz. I mentioned at Whipodcast Liz, and I'm going to plug my co host because I love him. Jose reads Hostway on Twitter. So that's the three of us. We have two shows together. The first one is a certain POV joint, and that is Jukebox Vertigo. You can find that on Twitter at jukebox vertigo. The way this show works is every other week we have a randomized musical category. It could be simply a genre, it could be something really narrow and niche.

01:36:44
Keith Lehtinen
And what we do is we go around with ourselves and usually some special guests and we build a playlist based around that category, be it our most recent episode, which is Duets, or our next episode, which is going to be very fun, which is called Sample Size, which is only songs that have been sampled, not songs with samples. So, yeah, we've been having a lot of fun doing some research for that and it's just a blast. We have a really good time. We also have an episode coming up that I'm very excited about, that we've only done once and it's going to be a reoccurring thing, I think, called Jukebox Roulette, where we randomly roll the category during the show for each entry, and that person, 1 minute to come up with a song while the rest of us talk for a moment.

01:37:31
Sam Alicea
Oh, boy.

01:37:32
Keith Lehtinen
And it's so much fun. We did it once and only one of us got stumped once. It wasn't yeah, lots of fun. At Jubox Vertigo on Twitter. You will always announce new episodes on there. Also, I mentioned my co hostway. He actually hosts Vertigo. He has Twitch at Hostway, plays Hostway every Monday when new episodes come out. He hosts a listening party later that evening on Twitch where he listens to all the songs we added and gives his opinions. And it's a lot of fun. We've been getting like a pretty good sized group lately, just sitting there talking about music. We ended up staying way too late the last time, so it's a lot of fun. Our other project I want to talk about is we have Issues. It's our comic book podcast.

01:38:14
Keith Lehtinen
It's once again Min host Way, where we review what seems to be every comic that comes out every week. You can find that at Whipodcast on Twitter. And if Hive comes back up where we have issues on Hive, that's where my Twitter name, Whipodcast Keith comes. So those are my two major projects. And I have some collabs coming up with certain POV, but I don't want to plug them yet until I know for certain they're going to happen. Cool.

01:38:40
Case Aiken
Yeah. Well, I mean, everyone should be checking out both of those shows. As you mentioned specifically, Jukebox Vertigo at this time is a certain POV show. But we love you all and we're so happy to be able to engage in these conversations and have you on and yeah, you're putting out good work.

01:38:57
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, I love Case being one of our listeners because he's always sending messages about what we talked.

01:39:03
Case Aiken
Yeah.

01:39:04
Keith Lehtinen
Obscure references no one else gets. And I'm like, thank God someone else got that, because what I make a.

01:39:10
Case Aiken
Reference to you made a Christmas Prince reference and I literally went, Christmas Prince. And then you were like, that's a Christmas Prince reference, but no one's going to get it. I was like, I got your message.

01:39:22
Sam Alicea
We've watched the Christmas Prince.

01:39:25
Case Aiken
Yeah, we did an episode on Christmas on two.

01:39:28
Sam Alicea
We did it on two. But we ended up talking about all three because how can you not?

01:39:34
Keith Lehtinen
I was unaware of the Christmas Prince. And Tin, Jenny Nicholson put out her.

01:39:37
Case Aiken
Video about that's such a good video, too. And we talked about that video a lot.

01:39:40
Keith Lehtinen
I was just like, yeah, I need to watch this. And so I went and watched. I'm like, excellent. Ten out of ten. Yeah.

01:39:45
Case Aiken
I shouldn't be surprised that a YouTuber with a million plus subscribers is known by other people. But I do get excited when some of these ones that I feel are like, my niche. Such a weird thing to say.

01:39:57
Keith Lehtinen
I absolutely adore her. I'll give a plug for her. Screw it. Jenny Nicholson on YouTube. Check out her one about the church play cinematic universe. It's the funniest things I've ever listened to. The fact that there is a scene where Iron Man is being crucified on a girder while singing tub thumping by Chumbawamba. That's all you need to know. It's amazing. It's the best. Yeah, great. But that's all my plugs. That's everything. Find me on the certain POV discord. We have a lot of fun on.

01:40:31
Case Aiken
And, and after that, they should look up Sam. Sam, where can they find you and follow you?

01:40:36
Sam Alicea
Well, they can occasionally find me on our discord when I remember it exists, and then they can find me here on another pass, which yeah, that's pretty much it. Because I have disappeared and you're going to have to hire a replacement because I am writing all the rides in Disneyland. But if you have any complaints about anything I said today, especially if it was about La Land, because I don't want to hear it because it was terrible and I don't care. I do not care. Please. You can find Case at you can.

01:41:10
Case Aiken
Find me on Twitter for as long as it still exists at Case Aiken. You can also find me on other social media sites at Case Aiken as new ones rise and fall. Did you say Hive is down already?

01:41:24
Sam Alicea
I think it's back up.

01:41:26
Keith Lehtinen
They're building the infrastructure.

01:41:29
Case Aiken
They better.

01:41:30
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah, it was ran by two people when we all.

01:41:36
Case Aiken
I do have a mastodon, but I can't even explain how I might have more than one mastodon at this point. I did not intend for that. But if you're worried about that, you can find me at also just maddeningly named Instagram handle I have, which is Kesselcoattle Five, because I am both a mythology nerd and a legion of superheroes nerd and didn't think about branding back in the day when I set up those accounts.

01:42:01
Keith Lehtinen
That's a tough one.

01:42:03
Case Aiken
But outside of that, you can find the show on Twitter again, as long as it still exists. At another pass, you can find more episodes@certainpov.com or on this feed. Now, at this point, when this episode is dropping, you will have noticed that our output has gone up quite a bit from our old bi weekly schedule. And that is because on off Weeks, we are putting out Sam and my retrospective on old episodes. So we are doing the same thing we did when we did the proto episodes of another Past, the ones that were part of the certain Point of View podcast show. We are now doing that for all of the old episodes, and there's a bunch of reasons for that.

01:42:42
Case Aiken
One is that our podcast hosting site, Libson, interacts weirdly with some players and limits the number of old episodes you can see at any time. Like if you go to the website, you can find every episode. But on Pocketcast, for example, you can only go 100 episodes back. So we wanted to make it so that it was available, but they're also six years old at this point. And so we wanted to give an opportunity that there is an additional gain, which is our insight into it. And we can kind of talk about the strengths and weaknesses and perhaps the audio quality of many of these early episodes of the show. So if you're wondering why every other week there is a show that says another pass at a thing, that's us doing our retrospective.

01:43:26
Case Aiken
So at this point, you'll have heard us talk about Return of the Jedi, you'll have heard us talk about Mall rats. I forget how many of these will have come out at this point, but a couple. So check those out. Check out new episodes of the show. Check us out on Discord, on the slowly burning down Twitter and then circle back for next time where we will be talking about something great. Sam, what are we going to be talking about next time?

01:43:50
Sam Alicea
Next time, we'll be talking about Highlander two the quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.

01:44:02
Keith Lehtinen
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of View's, another past podcast. Don't miss an episode. Just subscribe and review the show on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com.

01:44:15
Sam Alicea
Another pass is a certain POV production. Our hosts are Sam Alicea and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Matt Storm. Our logo and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our intro theme is by Vin Macrie and our outro theme is by Matt Brogan. Should we should just get into the episode?

01:44:32
Keith Lehtinen
We should just get into it.

01:44:33
Sam Alicea
We're basically episode without I'm going to stop you all.

01:44:37
Keith Lehtinen
Amazing.

01:44:38
Sam Alicea
Case.

01:44:39
Case Aiken
No, I know. I know. I just wanted to when me and.

01:44:42
Keith Lehtinen
Case get together, this is what happened.

01:44:43
Sam Alicea
Matt, I'm sorry. If this goes off the rails, I will do my best to keep Case on track, but I have a feeling that this is going to be a hard one.

01:44:54
Case Aiken
Good luck editing the Men of Steel episode for Squad and supreme was down to the wire on getting it to him in time to edit, and it ended up being almost 4 hours long, maybe cracking 4 hours, but under 4 hours on the final cut. We scheduled it and I had 3 hours from the time it started to when I was supposed to go see Black Panther and were late for the movie because we just went so hard on this. I mean, admittedly, it's a dense book and I should have realized, no, went issue by issue and I was like, no, that was a bad choice. Should not have done that if I wanted it to be under 2 hours.

01:45:33
Sam Alicea
Yeah.

01:45:35
Case Aiken
And so I paid him extra money up front being like, hey, this is really long and it's tight and I'm sorry. Here's a bonus.

01:45:43
Sam Alicea
I'm glad you did that, Matt. You deserve to be rewarded or compensated for your loss of time.

01:45:52
Keith Lehtinen
Yay.

01:45:52
Sam Alicea
Yay.

01:45:55
Case Aiken
Under 2 hours on the recording.

01:45:57
Sam Alicea
Huzah.

01:45:58
Keith Lehtinen
Yeah. All right.

01:45:59
Sam Alicea
We did it, Matt. We did it. You're welcome.

01:46:02
Case Aiken
CPOV certainpov.com.