Often called “A Thinking Man’s Action Movie” and “The Last of the Great Action Movies”, it’s hard to imagine that “Total Recall” was a fight to get made. From the “One Track Mind” and “Reels of Justice” podcasts, Ryan Luis Rodriguez joins Case and Sam to try to remember the details of this wild production!

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Transcript

(Subject to Error)

00:00
Ryan
Right. And everybody involved got food poisoning at one point, except for Schwarzenegger.

00:06
Case
We will get there because it's f****** funny.

00:11
Sam
There's a pattern with Schwarzenegger and Schwarzenegger.

00:14
Case
And the people he works with.

00:17
Sam
Yeah.

00:21
Case
Welcome to certain POVs. Another pass podcast with Case and Sam. This week is a fifth episode, so we're talking about a movie that overcame adversity. Let's celebrate the creativity of the filmmakers. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Another Pass podcast. I'm Case Aiken. And as always, I am joined by my host, sam Alicea.

00:41
Sam
Hi.

00:42
Case
And there was something were supposed to do today, and I can't remember.

00:46
Sam
What it oh, don't look at me. Time has no meaning, and I can't remember anything. Is there a planner or something around? Did we write it down?

00:55
Case
If only were better about having outlines. Oh, wait, I did actually make an outline. Sorry. I just recalled that I made an outline and oh, we're joined by someone. Sorry, I totally forgot that we had someone here with us today. We are joined by Ryan Luis Rodriguez.

01:09
Ryan
Hello, ladies and gentlemen. How is you doing?

01:13
Case
It's starting to come back to me. It's starting to come back to me. Oh, that's right. We're talking about Total recall today.

01:18
Ryan
Oh, we are.

01:20
Sam
Yeah, we are.

01:21
Ryan
I totally forgot about that. Oh, my God.

01:23
Case
Man, I'm sorry. I spaced. For listeners at home who aren't aware of this one, I'm about to be a dad, and things have been busy, and just basic facts are slipping away from me all the time. I'm sorry.

01:37
Ryan
We need to improve your implant.

01:39
Sam
Yes. Maybe we should have someone know kind of implant a memory of a vacation so you can relax for a little bit.

01:47
Case
Yeah, sorry. Just refresh my memory, Ryan. Who are you?

01:50
Ryan
I am a person and a podcaster. Case has been on my show. One track mind where I was. You were? I know it's hard to remember now, but you were. It's one of my favorite episodes. That is a show where I look at film through the prism of audio commentaries. It's the best commentary podcast out there because as far as I know, it's the only one. And I actually have total recall. When it comes to this film, total.

02:17
Sam
Recall, it's the only thing that's memorable.

02:19
Case
Right, well, so I'm still trying to remember the details of this movie. Sam, can you tell me a little bit about this movie?

02:27
Sam
Sure. It was directed by Paul Verhoeven, screenplay by Ronald Chusset, Dan O'Brien, and Gary Goldman. And then the story, the original story is written by Ronald Chusset, dan O'Brien, and John Poville.

02:39
Case
I'm going to correct you on the pronunciation there. It's the dan o'banyan. Yeah.

02:44
Sam
Don't ask me to read names. I don't recall how to read names.

02:52
Case
And of course, this is based on a Philip K. D*** short story, we Can Remember it for you wholesale. And it was budgeted initially at like 20 million, and then it eventually got to 48 to 80 million, and its box office was 261.4 million.

03:05
Sam
So it's fine.

03:06
Case
Yeah. This is a success. Like, this movie is definitely a success by most metrics that you would use for it, right?

03:13
Ryan
Yeah. This basically assures Verhogan a blank check for the rest of the decade. RoboCop got him to this point, and then this assures that Basic Instinct Showgirls, Starship Troopers, all of that happens because of this.

03:29
Case
Yeah. What a filmography, by the way.

03:32
Ryan
Oh, h*** yeah.

03:34
Case
This is a wild movie. It's so weird. I'm so glad to be talking about this. This is one of the first R rated movies that I saw, admittedly, on TV, but still I was like, oh, my God, there is so much gun violence in this thing. Because it was, like 1991 and I was, like, seven when I saw it on TV.

03:51
Ryan
Yeah, I saw it edited for television, I don't think in 1991, because I was five. But at some point during the saw it and with all the violence edited out, it seemed even more perverse for some reason. So I have that stuck in my brain permanently.

04:10
Case
Yeah, I could see that supposedly when they were making RoboCop, and it notoriously got a hard X rating for the amount of violence in it. Every edit that they tried to do to make it appeal to the censors more by removing some of the violence actually made each one of the actual kills more real. Like, it became more visceral because you only had a few as opposed to the comedic, like, yeah, we have the ed two, and I'm just like blowing holes into someone and I kind of feel like this movie kind of works on the same logic.

04:38
Ryan
Yeah, absolutely.

04:39
Sam
Yeah. I actually was not allowed to watch this movie, and I ended up watching it at a friend's house without my parents knowledge or permission because it was too violent for our household. So I wasn't allowed to watch it, even though my parents really did love it and they would talk about it all the time. But I just went next door, like, literally the apartment next door and watched it. My parents knowing you.

05:01
Case
Yeah. So this movie now has a reputation of being something of, like, a thinking man's action movie. And I find that really interesting to look at because it was not received that way initially. At the time, it was perceived as just like another Arnold Schwarzenegger dumb Sci-Fi action film schlock. And it's really interesting to look at how, one, I don't think that's true about this, and clearly audiences have started to come to my way of thinking about this one. And two, there's a big question about it that I have to ask everyone before we get further into a conversation about this movie. Does the story happen?

05:34
Sam
I don't know. It could be a dream, right? I mean, that's where they leave you at the end, right? Like he's like, oh, it's so beautiful. It looks like a dream. And he's like, Is it a mean? Is he in a booth? Is this the vacation that he purchased and he's a hero? I don't know. Maybe.

05:52
Case
I personally come down on this movie being entirely inside Arnold Schwarzenegger's head from the moment he goes to recall.

05:58
Ryan
Interesting, I have vacillated back and forth between what I think the actual answer is. But especially in this most recent viewing, I tend to believe that at least some of it happened. I mean, at least at the end. I think that's a tongue in cheek way of acknowledging that it could be a dream. But I don't think that it is. I think that this happened.

06:21
Sam
Yeah, I agree with Ryan. I actually really do feel like at the end, I feel like it's real. And I feel like it's just like at this point, it's tongue in cheek on whether you, the audience, can trust it. Because the whole time, every single time, you feel like, okay, now we're on track. Now we have the narrative. Now we know where we're going. Like, this main character feels that way. Something else happens to throw him off when he's in the office. And he's just like, who are you going to show me now? My mother? Like, oh, my God. Who else is going to convince me that one thing is true and the other thing isn't true? And so I think it's just kind of a joke from everyone involved, the screenwriters and the director being ha. Was it real? I don't know.

07:04
Sam
Yeah, sure it was. Big kiss at the end. You're welcome. So I think it's just kind of poking fun at that stuff. But I would like to believe that it's real and that they did win.

07:13
Case
Yeah, it's fun because Schwarzenegger has said that he believes it's a true story. Not true. Obviously not true. Again, this is documented.

07:20
Ryan
It happened. We all know this.

07:22
Case
But Schwarzenegger comes down on the side of these are events that actually happen in the narrative of the film. Versus Verhoven has said that he prefers to think of it as being a thing that happens inside his brain. That scene was the selling point for him coming on board, and he decided to make it more explicit in the text of the film. But you can see that thus, this is Schwarzenegger's baby. At this point. He's the one making this movie. So his say also has a lot of weight to that. So I think you can come down on either side. Even if I prefer to think that it's entirely in his head. Like, I understand that this is head canon.

07:56
Ryan
Right. And it's deliberately confusing. Yeah, I think that it's a movie that succeeds precisely because it is confusing. It's not incoherent. It leaves you a lot to chew on throughout the entire runtime, and it's.

08:10
Case
Wild because the short story is explicitly real memories occurring, the events are actually happening. It's less vague about the whole situation versus what we actually get here, which I find fascinating that this is in its own weird way, like more Philip K. D*** esque than the actual Philip K. D*** story.

08:29
Ryan
Right?

08:30
Sam
Yeah, I think so. It's a good nod. Mean, not necessarily with this story, but he was pretty well known for writing unreliable narrators. And so I think in a way, this whole movie is an unreliable narrator. And so you have this moment of like, both of us, or all of us are right. Both the director and Schwarzenegger's take on it is fine, and it's really how you see it, but it's fun. Does it change the story for you case if you think it's in his head versus if it really happened?

09:00
Case
I think it makes some of the simpler kind of takes on spycraft that this movie has. It makes it more palatable to me because as a kid I read it as like, oh, no, yeah, he already had the memories in his head that they unlocked by accident. I read it as very like that the movie was being very honest because I was seven or eight when I first saw this movie and that's how kids interpret media. The idea that the movie could be lying to me was not a thing that I could even conceive of at the time.

09:28
Sam
Right.

09:28
Case
And I think that supports a less enthusiastic take on this movie for me and the response that critics had at the time, where it's like more of a here's a dumb action movie kind of thing. Because Schwarzenegger is not that great of a spy. He kind of just is lucky and strong and gets through situations through that. And that's all cool, but the idea that it's actually in his head and that it's a fantasy that he is himself living, I think works. And I think it works so well that it's Schwarzenegger specifically and not some of the other people that they had wanted for the part beforehand. Because on the one hand, you buy it like, he's huge, he's this f****** giant guy and he's like an action star. So you're like, oh, yeah, I can see that.

10:06
Case
He can go through all these action scenes and you can take it for granted because it's Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like, we've seen him do this kind of movie a million times and we'd see him do it a million times after that. It's just one of the types of things that he's in for. But the actual events of it all, I think, work really well from a perspective of some schlub who wants to believe he could be a super spy. Secretly, there's nothing that Arnold does that's like the big strong motions of it all that I couldn't fantasize about myself doing. I'm not saying that I'm anywhere near that shape, but the idea that I could rip some piece of machinery out of a cab isn't something that I couldn't fantasize about doing. Honestly, I would go to try it and I would fail.

10:46
Case
But I would still, like I said, fantasize that I could do those things. And so having this actor who is this big workout guy who is a construction worker, he's in shape and he's got a beautiful wife. These are all kind of a little too perfect, but it's also the movie version of that. So it's sort of like how he sees himself, how he sees his wife, how he sees all these things that he's fantasizing about and then he goes into this perfectly laid out it's all the steps that they said that the Martian spy adventure was going to have. And I love all of that.

11:14
Case
And the shot that particularly makes it for me as him being like in the dream is that when he goes to recall and they have him go back in the chair, he goes all the way into the recall, the head contraption, and it's like, glowing and there's big music as he goes back to it. And then it cuts and he's, like, shifted down away from it. And that's when they go into here's all the questions about what are going to go on in it. And I honestly think at that point is actually a UI that he's interacting with in terms of picking out all the settings he wants in it. But he's already in the state of having the memories being implanted in him.

11:50
Ryan
And I think it's interesting that nobody can seem to come to an agreement as to what the reality is because it reminds me of Blade Runner, another Philip K. D*** story where everybody involved seems to disagree over whether or not Deckard is a replicant. We have a director and a writer who completely negate the other. And I think that it's appropriate that this follows in a lineage. This is the natural kind of follow up to Blade Runner in that sense.

12:19
Case
Yeah. And I love that for this movie. Like, I love that ambiguity. I think that if it didn't have it would be a less interesting movie.

12:25
Ryan
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's disorienting, but all of this would be disorienting to actually experience. So it thrusts you into Arnold's head and it basically has you just stew there in your own juices for an hour and 50 minutes, which is kind of remarkable.

12:43
Case
Yeah. And then you deal with all these hyperviolent action scenes and cool visuals and incredibly impressive special effects that are mostly practical or blue screen imposed, but it's still, like model work and all that. There's a lot of visual treats for everyone when they're watching this movie while they're also thinking over like, is this even really happening? So if you are down for big, bloody action movie with cool spectacle and also makes you think this movie is exactly that.

13:12
Ryan
Yeah. It's the last gasp of a purely practical spectacle. It's the last time that analog effects would really be considered I don't know what the proper word is, but the aesthetic is very much this is not going to happen again. I mean, if you look just forward one year, you have Terminator Two, where all of a sudden visual effects are advancing into the digital realm. But this aside from like, maybe the shot where he's in the X ray and they show his skeleton, I think that might be augmented digitally. But other than that, everything is practical. Yeah.

13:49
Case
On that note, the X ray is actually the one CG shot in this entire movie. Everything else is in some way practical. Either model work that's like being matted on or literally like puppetry and so forth, going like quado.

14:02
Ryan
Oh, my god.

14:02
Case
Oh my god.

14:03
Sam
What an effect. So good.

14:05
Case
Sticks with us forever. And it's funny, I referenced quado recently on an episode because were talking about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Two and how they almost had Krang in it. I was like, you could do it like a quado effect, right?

14:15
Sam
Yeah.

14:16
Case
Like the Henson Company could do that.

14:18
Ryan
Oh my god. That would be disgusting. Live action krang. Oh my god. I mean, I would love it, but oh, my god.

14:24
Case
Growing out of David Warner. Yeah, it would have been amazing. But they didn't do it. They just had random scientist who disappears in the middle of the night. But we're not talking about Ninja Turtles right now.

14:34
Ryan
We're talking about we can't d*** it. That's why I showed up.

14:38
Sam
Yeah. If you recall, we're talking about another movie.

14:42
Case
But the movie ultimately was a success. It did more than TRIPLET'S budget, which is even the more Hollywood numbers, like whatever inflated amount that they actually put into it because it kept expanding and how much it was going to cost. And then it opened really strong. And this was a time where movies ran for a really long time. So it did fine. It even narrowly beat out Ninja Turtles One for best opening Weekend, which is really impressive considering that was such a huge cultural phenomenon as well. Yeah.

15:10
Ryan
And the highest grossing independent film of all time up to a certain point.

15:14
Case
Yeah. And this was not this was just a big stupid movie in an era where big stupid movies were still the norm. But it was, again, big stupid movie that makes you think. It's fun that we've talked about Arnold Schwarzenegger a lot on this podcast and several times for fifth episodes because I think he had a perception at the time of being because he's big Jack guy with a thick accent, like not the sharpest crayon in the toolbox. But he is, in fact, very cunning in terms of what projects he always wanted to work on. And I have heard that at this point, the accent is just affect because it makes his persona easier to sell.

15:52
Case
And you can see that he has a habit of picking really clever projects and then putting himself in there and having them be really good for his career. This is a good bounce back for Schwarzenegger along with then doing T Two the following year. That really cemented him going into the 90s as still like, a viable action actor.

16:08
Ryan
Yeah, he knew his limitations. He knew exactly where he couldn't go, but he knew what would be conducive to his vibe, especially in the late 80s, early ninety s. I don't think anybody, aside from maybe Tom Cruise was picking more appropriate projects for them to actually execute.

16:29
Sam
Yeah. Definitely more on brand. He's definitely one of the people that understood who he was and how he would fit into spaces and how he could make room for himself in some projects more than probably anyone else.

16:43
Case
Like I said, this ultimately became Schwarzenegger's baby, but he actually came on the project relatively late. It was only in 87 that I think he became attached to the movie. And this movie had started pre production in 1974, which is just kind of it's such a huge timeline. It took 16 years for the movie to get made.

17:01
Sam
Yeah.

17:02
Case
So at that .1 of the producers, Shuffett, who also has writing credit, had optioned the story because he liked it. He saw it in anthology magazine and thought it would make for a good script. And he brought on Dan O'Bannon. So these two ultimately would table this project after working on it for a couple of years to go work on the first Alien movie. But when they were working on this, it was a difficult process because the short story was like 23 pages. And in terms of making it into a script, it really only covered the details that they could fit into the first act.

17:34
Case
So that means that Act Two and Three are just complete inventions, which I find just fascinating in terms of how much of this movie there like everything from when he arrives on Mars past is completely created for this movie.

17:46
Ryan
That's the thing you couldn't tell. I don't think anybody that went to go see this movie probably read the short story. But if you looked at it and you saw, oh, based on a Philip K. D*** story, you would assume based on this movie, oh, all of this is in there. So the fact that it's not actually speaks a lot to Shiset and O'Bannon and their ability to take something that was not originally theirs, but put enough of their own spin on it so that it feels cohesive.

18:15
Case
Yeah. And obviously you can go back and really fill in the details. They start talking about quatto early on. They start laying all the stuff for Mars and that stuff that was hinted at in the short story, it just didn't actually happen. In the short story. So it's like, okay, now let's get him to Mars. Get your a** to Mars is such a famous quote from this movie.

18:33
Sam
Yeah.

18:34
Ryan
So Quado is not in the story.

18:36
Case
No, he was a creation for that happens much later.

18:39
Ryan
Well, well done, gentlemen, because, oh my God, Quado is the best.

18:45
Case
Yeah, it gets crazy when you look at all the different people who then get attached to this. After Alien being, like, a huge success, shasset then gets a deal with Disney and so tries to make it work with Disney. But also, this is late 70s, early 80s Disney, so it wasn't like they just had money to burn on projects, which is so weird to say now in 2023.

19:02
Sam
Right. When they own so much of everything.

19:06
Ryan
They had money to burn for the black hole, but no money to burn for anything else.

19:11
Case
Right, fair enough. Just keep destroying more money. Just get rid of it. So it didn't go anywhere in that scenario. So it ended up actually getting acquired by Dino De Laurentis.

19:23
Ryan
Right. And then is that when Cronenberg comes on?

19:27
Case
Yes. So that's where Cronenberg came in. And Cronenberg is the one who added the mutants.

19:32
Ryan
See, that makes perfect sense.

19:33
Sam
Yeah, there's no surprise. Like, yeah, that's the guy to Adam.

19:37
Case
Yeah. That's just like the most logical chain of thought that you could possibly think. It's like, okay. Oh, yeah. OK, cool. Yeah. Now, despite Cronenberg not wanting this at the time, de Laurentis had secured Richard Dreyfus for the part of Dennis Quail. I should note it was Quail in the short story and had stayed that way. The reason it was changed to Quaid by the time we get to the actual movie is for two reasons, one of which is that this was 1990, and so George Bush was president and his vice president was Dan Quail, and they just didn't want it to be that close. And another, they wanted it to sound like a little bit more actiony because it was Schwarzenegger and Quaid sounds a little bit harder than, like, Quail.

20:16
Ryan
And of course, Doug, which we all know Arnold Schwarzenegger totally looks like a Doug 1000%.

20:24
Sam
But you know what? He can say Doug and he can say Quaid. And so that is probably also, do.

20:29
Case
You think his implanted memories were actually like the Doug cartoons?

20:33
Sam
Yes.

20:34
Ryan
Oh my God, that'd be amazing. I want to go total Recall right now so I can watch more Doug.

20:41
Case
Oh, yeah. But only the Nickelodeon Era.

20:44
Ryan
Yeah, forget that brand spanking new Doug. That's not my jam.

20:48
Case
Right, but that actually tracks out because then Sharon Stone is like a live action version of Patty Mayonnaise. So who's the cab driver?

20:59
Sam
The cab driver?

21:00
Ryan
I guess the buddy at the gravel pit would be Roger.

21:03
Case
Oh, yeah, he's got that. Yeah.

21:05
Sam
Yeah.

21:06
Case
I guess what we're saying is that Arnold Schwarzenegger clearly is Doug he's doug funny.

21:10
Ryan
Just pork chop. There's no pork chop there, unfortunately.

21:13
Case
Unfortunately. But that's know the way dogs go.

21:16
Sam
On that whole process, wow, that's heavier than anything discussed in this movie case.

21:25
Case
But anyway, so Dreyfus was attached to play Doug Quail, and that was not Cronenberg's choice. Cronenberg wanted William Hurt, which is an interesting one to think about for the part. And Hurt is a bigger guy, but not obviously he's not Schwarzenegger in terms of beefiness.

21:40
Sam
Right.

21:40
Case
But either way, you're seeing more of this everyman kind of role, because, like, the short story, it's supposed to be just like some schlub is like, oh, no, I'm actually special. Secretly, when the memories get unlocked, I can see how it feed into like, oh, but it's actually real because it's like, well, why does he look like Arnold Schwarzenegger? But for me, I'm like, they cast Arnold Schwarzenegger so that we take for granted that it's not actually real.

22:00
Ryan
And with William Hurt, it would tie into altered states, which is like, clearly he knows how to do this thing. He just ended up not getting the job ultimately.

22:11
Case
Yeah. And they were also looking at Christopher Reeve and Jeff Bridges, which I find fascinating.

22:16
Sam
Yeah.

22:17
Ryan
Jeff Bridges I could see.

22:18
Case
Yeah. 80s Jeff.

22:19
Ryan
Christopher Reeve, I think, is too gentle.

22:21
Case
God, can you imagine Christopher Reeve in the Verhoven movie? The violence that we're getting in the movie is just so much more explicit because it's a verhoeven movie. I can't imagine the Cronenberg one. There would be body horror. There would be, like a grotesqueness to it all. But I think that those moments where Doug is like, I just killed people, would be much more emphasized, as opposed to there's just exploding squibs everywhere that we get in the movie. And can you imagine Chris Reeve just like, blowing people up and being just, like, splattered with blood all over?

22:51
Sam
I don't know.

22:51
Case
In the midst of doing Superman four?

22:54
Sam
I don't know. That'd be hard.

22:56
Ryan
I don't know. I think he's too gentle to even be considered. In a million years, I never would have suggested Christopher Reed for this role. He has a nobility to him that I don't think fits the character.

23:07
Sam
I think it's a gambit, for sure. I don't know that it would necessarily fail right. Mean, because it could play like, if you're playing against types, sometimes it does work in their favor, especially if we're going with cases and the director's kind of theory where it's just like, this isn't real, and it's just like an imagined kind of thing. It might work, but it would be really hard. It would be really hard for audiences after seeing him as Superman for so long. It'd be difficult.

23:35
Case
Yeah. And Christopher Reeve was not the draw that Arnold Schwarzenegger was.

23:40
Sam
Yeah, agreed.

23:41
Case
Right.

23:41
Ryan
I mean, like, if you look at the Superman movies, people are going to see Superman. They're not going to see Christopher Reeve as Superman. It just so happens to be a perfectly calibrated connection. But just like Tarantino recently was complaining about Marvel movies, saying that nobody goes to see them for the actors. So that's the death of the movie star.

24:03
Sam
I mean, he's wrong, though, because I don't like Doctor Strange at all. I went to see Benedict, but that's besides the point. But I can see what you're like in terms of Reeve. Like, it's not anything else that he was bringing to the table in terms of other movies. And he doesn't have the same draw as Arnold Schwarzenegger at all at this point, right? He's already been Conan. He's already been a bunch of stuff.

24:27
Ryan
He's going to go Predator, Commando, like all these iconic mean.

24:32
Sam
And he hasn't gone on to do his best movie jingle all the way. But I'm joking. Please do not quote me on that.

24:38
Case
Put those cookies down.

24:41
Ryan
And of course, the most brilliant thing he ever did, which was Planet Hollywood, indeed, the most fun you'll ever have eating an overpriced $18 hamburger while sitting underneath the block of ice from Demolition Man.

24:56
Case
If you look closely, you can see Stallone's b*** cheeks.

24:58
Ryan
Oh, that's going to make these overpriced fries even more delicious.

25:02
Sam
Delicious.

25:04
Case
Well, so anyway, Cronenberg leaves the project. He had a falling out with De Laurentis. Part of this is that he didn't want Dreyfus. But these things happen. And they were trying to figure out how they could make this movie because at the time, the movie was being budgeted more around the $20 million range. And this was going to be no matter what they were going to do, it was going to be set on Mars, and it was going to be real f****** weird. So it was difficult to actually see how that was going to happen.

25:26
Ryan
And wasn't he at loggerheads with Shiset as well? Weren't they having some difficulties together?

25:32
Case
Yeah, because they had different ideas about the tone for the script. There you go. So the director choice moved on to Bruce Beresford, who I so I looked through his filmography. The only movie I've seen was Double Jeopardy.

25:44
Ryan
Wasn't he driving, Miss Daisy? Was that him double checking?

25:47
Case
Oh, he was okay. Yes. So never mind two because, you know.

25:52
Ryan
These two movies, they really pair well together. They'd be a great double feature of Total Recall and Driving Mistake.

25:58
Case
Yes. So they were going to move the filming to Australia, which makes sense. Setting it on Mars. That is logical. And at this point, Patrick Swayze was attached for the lead, which is interesting to me because I think that obviously he's a smaller guy than Schwarzenegger, but I feel like he plays a similar action type when he does an action role.

26:17
Sam
Yeah, I could see that.

26:19
Case
So that one's particularly interesting. But then De Laurentis's company goes bankrupt in 1988 and this is where it all kind of falls apart. And this actually is where. The production gets really interesting because after at this point, now 14 years of production, all of the plans get scrapped. The second structure was underway. Because of the bankruptcy, they were required to destroy everything that they had been working on. And the production had already accrued 8 million in pre production costs and 6 million in turnaround. And basically it's dead at this point, if not for Arnold Schwarzenegger, because he had always wanted to do this f****** movie.

26:55
Case
Apparently, it had been a movie that he was really interested in and that De Laurentis was just like, no, the whole idea is we've got some everyman character, so it should be a star, but not like an action star in the lead role. And you're the definition of an action star, so you're not good for the part. But so Schwarzenegger wanting to do this movie, and now it being in turnaround, is able to convince Carlco Pictures to finance this movie. And because it's Schwarzenegger who's going to be the lead, they're like, yeah, we can get the money for this. Like it's an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. People will come see this.

27:27
Ryan
You just go to Cannes. You just pre sell a bunch of foreign territories. Boom. All you gotta do is say, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Paul Verhoeven, science fiction movie.

27:35
Sam
Yeah, get your a** done.

27:37
Case
Exactly.

27:38
Ryan
Get your a** to Mars. All the investors said, yes, we will get our a**** to Mars.

27:43
Sam
We'll get all of our a**** to Mars and then put it in theaters.

27:46
Case
And so, like I joked, this basically becomes Schwarzenegger's baby. Apparently, at the time, he was quoted as jokingly saying that he's the executive producer, but without any of the responsibilities. So basically, he got to call the shots and just didn't have to do any of the work of that, although he clearly was involved in a lot of it because then he's the one who then picks out Verhoeven to be the director because he was really impressed with RoboCop. And Schwarzenegger had apparently auditioned for the lead. One of the things with RoboCop is they had to get someone who was pretty skinny so that they could put all the Robocopness the fake robot body around an actor. So Schwarzenegger was not a good pick for that, but he was still interested in the role and really liked the movie.

28:23
Case
Meanwhile, Verhoeven accepted the offer after he actually read the Mars scene where Dr. Edgemar attempts to convince Quay that he's still on Earth. And this is where the split occurs, because up until this point, all productions had assumed that the story is really happening, and Verhoeven did not take that stance. And so Verhoeven's entire perspective on this movie is that it is all a dream. But again, Schwarzenegger, executive producer in all but name, sees it as all actually happening. So we get this interesting contrast in terms of the production on where that's coming from. But that idea that it's all a dream is a later idea that it actually could. Again, they put it in there as a plot twist, as a threat for him to kind of conceive of.

29:03
Case
But it was always assumed that the memories were real, that everything is actually happening and this is just them trying to confuse the hero. Except now we have a director who really digs the idea of maybe the.

29:13
Ryan
Hero is confused and the Dr Edgemar scene has him offering Doug a red pill in order to wake up from this nightmare and experience real life. And this is eight years before The Matrix, nine years rather, because Matrix was 99. And I don't know if the Wachowski sisters saw Total Recall. I assume they did. They're action junkies. But I don't know how much of that was influenced or how much of it is just a coincidence. But it's something that I really recognized in this most recent rewatch.

29:48
Case
I've heard that it was an influence on them. I don't know if explicitly the pill itself was I've heard that the blue pill is related to hormones for when you're transitioning. I don't want to go too deep on all that, but it wouldn't surprise me, is what I'm getting at. So Verhoeven comes on. He really likes this idea that it is all in Quaid's head. So he convinces them to bring on Gary Goldman to do additional rewrites on the script as well as a lot of his RoboCop crew. So once Verhoeven's in place, the actual production side of it becomes much smoother because it's basically moving over everyone who worked on RoboCop. Not literally everyone, but like a lot of people. So it was very easy to sort of slot them into this next production.

30:30
Case
And at this point, with Goldman starts his rewrites there had been 30 drafts had been completed credited to a combination of shoe set O'Bannon John Pavel and Steven Pressfield. A lot of rewrites, the Writers Guild rules are very specific on who gets credited on it in terms of how much you actually put in and how much actually gets retained into the final script. So a lot of people have touched it.

30:50
Ryan
It depends on when you enter the production as well. Like the original writers always get credit. You could rewrite 80% of the script and those original writers would still get credit.

31:00
Sam
Right?

31:00
Case
Right. And here especially because they were the ones who created all the Mars stuff. So the broad strokes all go back to those early drafts from the mid seventy s. Right. Now, Goldman was not familiar with the short story but because Verhoeven had read every single one of those drafts and had highlighted all the things that he thought was really interesting about them, he had a lot to work with and sort of remix and take into what this ultimate draft was going to be. And because Verhoeven had expressed a desire to make it ambiguous how the story would play out. That was also taken into consideration.

31:32
Ryan
Now, I have a question involving the recall process. Would all of this have been avoided if he chose Saturn instead of Mars?

31:42
Sam
I think so. Okay, so I guess it's dependent on what we believe happened. But if it's all true and he did live on Mars before, and he did work on Mars for this corporation, and he is a double triple quadruple agent switching sides all here and there, mars would always be the key. Right. And he's obsessed with it. In the first part where he's watching the news is all about Mars and he can't stop watching it no matter how much his girlfriend tries to distract him from know. So if he had chosen Saturn, that's just a cruise. It's a pleasure cruise. So honestly, no matter what, he would have had a much less interesting time. Right. Even if he chose secret agent on Mars. Right. And you believe that it's just a simulation. That's the vacation.

32:30
Case
I think that if the story truly plays out like it doesn't matter what he had chosen. Just them going to access his memories was what opened up the existing ones in him. And they say in that scene that you can kind of take as like, is he half hearing them while he's drugged? Where does the dream actually start? If it is a dream, but if it is actually true, like if he is actually hauser and memories are being unlocked and he's slowly getting out and slowly going through total recall of his past life, then it doesn't matter because they say that they never actually implant the specific memories. And so it wouldn't matter if it was Saturn or Mars. But if it is not true, I think it wouldn't happen if it was Saturn.

33:08
Case
Because I think the thing that's really f****** with him is the fact that they are implanting like the alternate persona aspect, like the spy story, which wouldn't have been part of the Saturn story. There's no narrative. If you're doing the Saturn cruise, you're just doing a cruise.

33:21
Sam
Wonderful cruise.

33:22
Ryan
Right. And then the ego trip is the whole secret agent thing.

33:26
Sam
Right.

33:26
Ryan
But would they offer the ego trip if he chose Saturn?

33:30
Case
I mean, I guess it's possible that they could have also offered an ego trip, but because there was also an option to just go to Mars and not have an ego trip. So I think the ego trip is the most important part here. But specifically, the ego trip, I think is the thing that if he is actually either just living out the two week story and then he wakes up and he's fine, or he's actually having the embolism and is getting lobotomized situation, either of those are because of the egotrip specifically. Because there's two ways this is all a dream. There's one where his brain is actually breaking down as a result of them butchering his brain and then there's one where it's actually just working according to plan. But he's warned in the dream itself that it's wrong.

34:06
Case
However it goes, we end with blue.

34:08
Sam
Skies on Mars, but do we instead of waves of Saturn?

34:13
Case
That's hard to say, because at the point when they were working on the script now, like going into 1988 and wanting to make this movie pretty quickly, they didn't really feel like they had time to do, like, massive rewrites. It was all fine tuning at this point. There had been so many drafts, there had been so much that they were working on, and Barisford had a shooting script, so there was a lot of work that they could port over from that previous production that had been shut down and everything, all the sets destroyed. And all they really felt that they could really do was fine tune it because they had to start building sets. Like, they just didn't have the time.

34:47
Ryan
So originally these sets, you said, were built in Australia, right?

34:51
Case
And then when this production became the Schwarzenegger production, everything gets moved over to Mexico City. I will note that also at this point in the production is when they create the plot that occurs in the third act of the Venusville running out of air that was created late in production to give additional stakes to the third act. Because at that point, it was like, this is where it gets sort of fun between the friction of the two viewpoints on it. Verhoeven didn't f****** care what happened in the third act. He did not think that it mattered what events occurred, because in his head, it was all quaid is spiraling out of control, his brain is melting down. It doesn't really matter.

35:30
Case
We just want to have fun with the fact that this person has gone completely crazy in these memories and is living this, like, super spy life. But Schwarzenegger and the studio wanted to have an actual emotional connection. Like they had to win for a reason. Not just win because they succeed, but actually save people in the process. And so that was when it was conceived of adding this, like, okay, they are now running out of air in this space. And so that victory means that they actually save everyone.

35:54
Sam
Which is great because it actually adds a layer to create a thinking man piece more so. Right. Because then this is more about using a natural resource to control an entire population in a very cruel way. And it gives the movie even more long lasting validity. More than just a bunch of people getting shot and a lot of kick a** scenes and some amazing special effects.

36:19
Ryan
And it allows him to do something that is actually heroic as opposed to what happens in the first two thirds of the movie where he just kills a lot of people.

36:27
Sam
Yes, so many.

36:29
Case
He's trying to survive. And there's something at least understandable about it, but he is not an altruist in any way in the first two acts.

36:37
Sam
Right.

36:38
Case
It does add a lot there. And I remember being really affected as a kid when you see the little girl mutant looking at the fan as it shuts off, I also remember thinking like, man, those fans don't have any kind of grates in front of them.

36:50
Sam
That's wild, that's dangerous, that's a violation.

36:55
Ryan
And when those things are operating and you slip and you run into one of them, oh, boy, you're going to be red on the red planet, that's for sure.

37:03
Case
Yeah. Then we get into the interesting themes of the movie. There is this capitalism unchecked kind of element that is very interesting. Also, I was paying attention this rewatch more to the whole northern block versus southern block kind of backstory for the planetary conflict that's going on Earth. It sounds like it's in kind of a new Cold War, but it's no longer with Russia because it's 1990 at this point. And so it's now like the south. I don't know exactly what maybe it's the Confederacy has risen again or maybe it's which actually not out.

37:33
Ryan
Of the realm of yeah, I was.

37:34
Sam
About to say that's kind of what.

37:37
Case
The and the north is just capitalism unbound, which is also not out of the realm of possibilities. The idea that someone could be such a powerful financial figure in a colony that he could just turn off a section and kill everyone there and it's fine is terrifying and verhoeven lefty as all h*** does, like pointing out that, hey, capitalism is kind of f*****. And I do very much appreciate that and I appreciate snicking that into an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie considering that know, Republican politician ultimately makes it digestible for audiences in a weird way.

38:12
Ryan
Yeah, it cleanses the palate a little bit. It kind of removes the thorns from the concept a little bit and it allows you to have an easier way in.

38:22
Case
Yeah, certainly the corporate greed kind of story plots primed me for being able to reject sort of the idea that greed is good. So it is impressive that's there because, like, man, who's to say if I didn't have total recall in my life, would I have remained a staunch Republican? Like my parents tried to indoctrinate me into being one.

38:42
Sam
Don't worry, you hit an alien. And alien they helped too.

38:47
Case
But yeah, that's all I have to really say about the pre production before we actually get into it going underway. It was 16 years. It was so many drafts, it ultimately was 40 script drafts, seven directors, four co writers, like a crazy whole line of time to actually get this movie underway. So with that, why don't we take a quick break to shout out one of the shows on our network. And when we come back, let's talk about the headaches that actually happened once the cameras were actually rolling.

39:12
Sam
Oh, fun. Hey there, screen beans. Have you heard about Screen snark?

39:17
Case
Rachel, this is an ad break. They aren't Screen Beans until they listen.

39:20
Sam
To the show fine potential. Screen Beans. You like movies and TV shows, right?

39:26
Case
I mean, who doesn't? Screen Snark is a casual conversation about the movies and television shows that are shaping us as we live our everyday lives.

39:33
Sam
That's right, Matt. We have a chat with at least one incredible guest every episode hailing from all walks.

39:39
Case
We've interviewed chefs, writers, costumers musicians, yoga.

39:43
Sam
Teachers, comedians, burlesque dancers, folks in the.

39:46
Case
Film and TV industry, and more. We'd be delighted for you to join us every other Monday on the certain.

39:51
Sam
POV podcast network or wherever you get your podcasts. Fresh and tasty, off the presses.

39:57
Case
What?

39:58
Sam
No, that's not can I call them Screen beans now?

40:02
Case
Fine.

40:03
Sam
Screen Beans.

40:09
Case
So tune in and we'll see you at the movies or on a couch.

40:12
Sam
Somewhere because you're a whole Screen Beans now. She will be mine. Auroraving characters being tortured by careless authors. Are you sick of feeling like they could have swapped out all of the painful action and the plot would remain untouched? Subscribe to Books That Burn the Fortnightly book Review podcast focusing on fictional depictions of trauma. We assume that the characters reactions are reasonable and focus on how badly or well they were served by their authors. Join us for our minor character spotlights, main character discussions, and favorite non traumatic things in the dark books we love. Find us on Spotify, itunes, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts.

41:00
Case
And we're back. All right, so once the cameras are actually rolling after 16 years in development, this movie is a lot smoother than what it could have been. Despite shooting in Mexico and having some issues because they're shooting in Mexico, it's not quite the Predator level of everything is going terribly. For one thing, they're shooting in Mexico City. It's an urban environment. They're using a lot of the subway systems for some of the locations. And then there's just a shitload of soundstages that they have just rented out. Like, it's a huge amount of soundstages that they have for it. And they start with a budget of 30 million. It does not stay there. It goes much bigger. And things that were hindrances on set, a lot of food poisoning. No surprise. Tons of people got food poisoned, except for Schwarzenegger.

41:43
Case
Because he got so badly food poisoned during Predator, he made sure to have his food slown down.

41:48
Ryan
It's kind of similar to what Woody Allen would do whenever he did international shoots. He would just bring cans of tuna fish from New York and subside entirely on them. That's the last time I will ever say anything remotely nice about Woody Allen.

42:05
Case
And that's about right.

42:08
Sam
Yeah, that's fair.

42:09
Case
So, yeah, like, everyone was just f****** sick on this production, which made things worse for people who were in emotionally uncomfortable scenes such as the actress Lycia Naff who played the three breasted prostitute. We definitely need to point out this one. She has repeatedly said that she felt very exposed and violated during the shoot of this even though these were prosthetic breasts. Which I find interesting because it's like, okay, yeah, it's fake b**** and whatnot. But she's like, very the movie has a lot of complaints about misogyny and I think it works better if you think it's all in Quaid's head. And so it makes it more thing. Another reason why I like the in his head scenario. But yeah, man, she's got two major scenes and one scene is like the skeezy cab driver just, like, rubbing her b****.

42:52
Case
And apparently that was not a thing that she was in a great headspace to deal with considering that she was dealing with food poisoning while filming that scene.

43:00
Ryan
Yikes. Oh, my God.

43:02
Case
Meanwhile, lots of injuries on set. Schwarzenegger cut his wrist while smashing a train window. His injuries late, he would cover up with his jacket, minor cuts and broken fingers as well. Ironside cracked his sternum and separated two ribs after running into Michael Champion who was holding an Uzi during the pursuit of so, like, the recoil on it f***** up his sternum. And so they actually had to pause it because Ironside is in a lot of this movie. And so he wasn't allowed to come back on until he could show that he could do enough push ups which his doctor was like, Please don't f****** do this. And then he does 30 push ups. And that hurt him worse.

43:36
Case
And so they had to go to Oakland Raiders quarterback Jim Plunkett to borrow a brace that had been built for his own injury that was similar, which is just all kinds of f***** up. And apparently he had a lot of trouble breathing while this brace was on. Apparently, injuries just abounded on this set.

43:50
Ryan
And Ironside, his sister, was ill with cancer at the time. So he's getting it from both ends. Like, this is emotionally and physically getting wrecked. But Schwarzenegger would lend his trailer to Ironside so that he could call his sister and check up on her occasionally.

44:09
Case
Yeah. Apparently, Schwarzenegger, if he likes you, is like a very good friend to have on set.

44:15
Ryan
Yeah. And if he doesn't, oh, God help you.

44:18
Case
Oh, yeah. Oh, God. He's also notorious prankster and will rob you out of money by convincing the costume people to lure you into a bet that you accidentally make. Such as the case with Jesse Ventura. Meanwhile, this is a wild one to me. The movie was shot in order.

44:34
Sam
That's kind of insane. Yeah. Especially considering all of the injuries they had to not be able to try to shoot around. Yeah. Kind of crazy.

44:45
Case
Yeah. And that makes it worse because by the time they're filming the stuff with Ironside because he's not really in act one. All of a sudden you have to deal with the fact that he's in basically every scene after that. So lot to work. Like, that's just crazy. And I imagine it's because they kind of came in last minute to do this whole movie because you would think you would have figured out, okay, we've got the set and we're going to shoot all the scenes for this one set and then move on. Although that said, also the movie, you kind of are constantly moving throughout the whole time.

45:12
Ryan
Yeah, it is. It's very kinetic in that, like, it's very much a movie on the move.

45:18
Case
But aside from the injuries on set oh, I should note that because they were filming, especially with the Mars sets, there was like lots of dust and so there was inhalation issues. So in addition to food poisoning, a lot of people were having lung problems. Like a whole set of the ten man from the wizard of Oz.

45:34
Sam
They were like, just use it. You're on Mars, you can't breathe.

45:40
Ryan
That's something Verhoeven would do. I mean, he is notoriously dictatorial on set. And I'm pretty sure he would tell people to stop being such p****** and just incorporate it into the use it.

45:54
Case
Well, that makes sense because he also tried to insist on all the fights being done with the actual actors and not with stunt people, including when the two women have their big fight and because they couldn't put padding or anything on their outfits because they're, like, in relatively tight clothes and are both slider framed people. It was really difficult. And someone had to step in and actually be like, no, we have to use stunt people. Like, we're going to f*** up our people and then not be able to continue shooting.

46:17
Sam
Yeah, people are going to get injured.

46:19
Case
So then when we get to the final cut of the film, it was 113 minutes and it got a hard X on its initial rating.

46:27
Sam
Shocking.

46:28
Case
Yeah. So, like, RoboCop, they had to cut it down. In this case, they were able to cut it down to get to an R. And then it's just running at.

46:34
Ryan
Hour 51, I think. So two minutes. Two whole minutes.

46:38
Case
Yeah. That's a lot of footage, especially when it's mostly, like, exploding blood from people.

46:44
Ryan
And even with everything they probably cut out, it still feels like an X when you're watching it. It feels like you're watching the director's cut of RoboCop, where it's kind of like, oh, this is how it was the entire time. But really, if you're taking out two minutes, that is not.

47:01
Case
I remember. So I did a rewatch last night and I was shocked at how violent the first fight with oh, yeah, roger.

47:10
Sam
With Roger. Since we named him Roger. Doug Sonny's best friend.

47:15
Case
Yeah, like, that whole fight is so graphic. And they do get the moment of him kind of like looking down at the gun being like, what have I done? Violence has entered my life. It's so weird that I was so naturally able to just blow people up. But yeah, man, that scene is shockingly violent. The scene on the escalator when he's riding up and using a dude as his human shield. All these moments are just like just splatter p***.

47:37
Ryan
Yeah. I love it in action movies when squibs render human flesh into hamburger. It's one of my favorite thing in R rated action movies. And Verhoeven is the king of the squibs.

47:49
Case
Yeah. And then in addition to all the Squib work, there were 100 visual effects. Over 100 visual effects pardon me. That utilized miniatures and blue screen. And like I mentioned, the only CGI was the X ray screens, which also very prescient there like that's now. Not too far off from what we actually are dealing with.

48:06
Sam
I was thinking that, too.

48:07
Ryan
And he got the makeup effects from Rob Botin, who is the goat. The king of this stuff, I believe, also worked on RoboCop and did some stuff on Basic Instinct. But this, I think, is his magnum opus in terms of everything that he pulls.

48:22
Sam
Yeah. The makeup effects are so cool. When I was rewatching it, just watching him pull out the tracker from his brain and the way his nose is kind of expanding while he's pulling it out. And just like that whole scene, I was everything looks so good and.

48:39
Ryan
Gross when his eyes are bugging out when he gets into the atmosphere. Oh, my God. So good.

48:49
Case
Yeah. Not to mention disguise when he's, like, pretending to be the woman checking in at Mars. And the whole two weeks. Two weeks. And the head starts to like, we.

48:58
Ryan
Need to cast the woman that Arnold could conceivably fit himself inside. What a casting call that would have been.

49:06
Sam
Yeah. And it's he when he touches his ear and he basically goes to pull that thing out. I remember the first time watching as a like, that was one of those moments that was like an oh, s***. Moment. Like I was like oh, s***. Oh, my God, her head's coming off like she's a robot. And then I was like, oh, it's him. Because I was a kid, get ready for a surprise. Right. Because it was just like, oh, wait. Because I remember thinking as a kid like, oh, wait. Is it just a robot? Is it going to blow up? Because I wasn't sure exactly what was happening. And then the whole head comes off and then his face is distorted. That's another piece of makeup. And then it kind of falls back into himself. And you're like, oh, it's him after all. The guy's.

49:50
Sam
Right. Very exciting.

49:53
Case
Yeah. It's a great scene. And the special effects were just mind blowing at the time.

49:58
Sam
Yeah, still are.

50:00
Ryan
I mean, still, they age relatively well considering that the digital is kept to a minimum.

50:06
Case
Yeah. It looks great. And like, the blue screen works really well. Every now and then you get a little bit of the edge line.

50:11
Ryan
Yeah, the haloing.

50:12
Case
Yeah. Like the elevator that he takes. Know the one that he kills Richter on and then takes up to the Martian facility. You can see it if you're aware of what you're looking at, but I think it holds up really well. And the fact that we still have real Arnold moving around in this Matting, I think is worthwhile, and I think it looks good music wise. The only big note I have on this one is that Jerry Goldsmith insisted on recording everything in London as opposed to Munich, which is where they had wanted to do the score recording. And as a result, that was just a little bit more expensive. But at this point, they were just, like, tossing additional money at this project. Again, it started at 30 and it ended up at 80 for their budget.

50:51
Ryan
Which is a very Carol Co thing to do. Just throw money at a problem and hope that it resolves itself. Which is why they went bankrupt within three or four years.

51:02
Case
Yeah. If all their movies were like this, it would have been fine. Because, again, this movie is a success. It's just you need to make sure that those are hits.

51:11
Sam
Right.

51:11
Ryan
It's not a cutthroat island situation, which is, we're going to spend $100 million on this movie and make ten. Like, oof.

51:20
Case
Yeah. And so on that note, this movie was a success, but not a super huge hit. Again, critics weren't super in love with this movie across the board. It's very bloody and it's very misogynistic. And even if it was 1990, people still picked up on those elements. And it also was perceived as being fairly dumb. And it's really been with time that people have really come around to looking at, again, as a smart person's action movie. But it was a success.

51:47
Ryan
It is a thinking man's dumb movie.

51:49
Case
Exactly.

51:50
Sam
Yeah. Actually, that's the perfect description of it because it gives you just enough to think about and then interrupts you with a bunch of violence, interrupts all of those thoughts, and it's just like, oh, that guy died.

52:04
Ryan
Like, Ronnie Cox has a great line, which is, I don't give you enough information to right?

52:10
Sam
Yeah.

52:11
Ryan
And he's talking to another character. But he could be saying that about the film that he's in.

52:16
Case
Certainly not enough to settle on an outcome. And like I said, it is ultimately a successful movie. It got butts and seats. It was at number one. It's opening weekend, but it didn't stay at number one after that. Although it then ran for a long time and did fine, it is certainly a commercial success, even if it wasn't. We talked about Halloween a few fifth episodes ago, and that's a landmark. God, I can't believe you made so much money on such a micro budget. Movie. This isn't that. But it still did fine. And it did fine enough that I would like to spend a moment just talking about the fact that it almost had a sequel. Yes.

52:50
Ryan
Minority Report, right?

52:52
Case
F****** crazy.

52:53
Sam
Insane.

52:54
Ryan
Honestly, I love Minority Report as it exists. I can't imagine what a verhoeven Schwarzenegger Minority Report would look like.

53:01
Case
Yeah, so the talk was that it was going to be set on Mars, and it was going to be the mutations that would allow people to predict the future enough that they would become the foundation for the Minority Report system. And it would have quaid as kind of like the super cop on Mars, which is just crazy to think about. And I'm glad it didn't happen for two reasons. One, I think that Minority Report would have been a worse movie in that scenario, and two, I think that would canonize an outcome where the story was accurate. And I like the ambiguity that we get, and having a sequel locks you into a particular perspective.

53:36
Ryan
But it could be a Blade Runner 2049 thing where they answer it, but they don't answer it. Like they kind of dance around whether or not Deckard is a replicant still, while also kind of confirming it, but also kind of rejecting it.

53:54
Case
So what you're saying is that we needed a Denis Villeneuve Minority Report.

53:58
Ryan
Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying, Case. I say that about every movie. I watch Ant Man and the Wasp and I go, imagine what Denis Villeneuve would do with this.

54:17
Sam
As you said, I'm trying to imagine what a Minority Report with Arnold Schwarzenegger. I don't know. I think I am also glad, even though I fall on the side of I think that these things happened, and I'm fine with that. These are true events that happen on Mars, and people on Mars can now breathe air freely. But yeah, I don't doesn't this movie does not need a follow up movie. It's actually pretty well encapsulated the way that it is.

54:45
Case
Yeah. I mean, the fade to white at the end is such a perfect moment right there, and it allows all the different possible interpretations to exist.

54:55
Sam
And it honestly doesn't matter at the end when he says, well, it's probably all a dream, she's like, well, if it is, just come here and kiss me. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it was a dream. It doesn't matter if you believe it's real or that it was all in his head or that it was melting, or that he was on some sort of recall vacation with implanted memories. That doesn't matter. You enjoyed your ride.

55:19
Case
Yeah.

55:20
Sam
Right. Don't think about it too much.

55:21
Ryan
It's not about the destination. It's the journey.

55:24
Case
Right?

55:24
Sam
And you had it.

55:25
Case
So it's good you had that journey, and you have the memories of that journey, and that's what, ultimately, recall is selling.

55:32
Sam
Honestly, I love the pitch in the office when they're selling him the recall vacation. It's one of my favorite scenes. I just think that the guy who does it is so good, and I think that whole scene, the way that he's selling, because he's basically telling you what's going to happen in the movie.

55:47
Case
Right. That said, he's not dismissive enough for me about the threat of lobotomy, so.

55:52
Sam
I definitely he's a salesman. I mean, come on.

55:56
Case
Well, Quay just seems like such a mark in that scene, and I f****** love it as a result.

56:01
Ryan
He's got to get him a used car, man. That's how it works.

56:05
Sam
Listen, not only did this guy was already willing, he walked into his office willing to have it, and then he saw that he could make the up sale. This man is perfect as a salesperson. You leave him alone, Case. He's just trying to feed a family. I'm just saying that may or may.

56:20
Case
Not have one thing I love about this movie is how f****** dumb Arnold seems throughout this entire time. And again, I'm not saying Arnold Schwarzenegger is dumb. I'm saying that the character of Quaid comes off as very f****** I'll say it.

56:31
Ryan
He's dumb.

56:32
Sam
He's very trusting, naive. You could say he's naive. We don't have to say he's dumb. We can say that he's very naive.

56:38
Ryan
We don't have to. But I'll say it again, he's dumb.

56:42
Case
He's such a mark for it. His whole wondering about the larger world and the problems of Mars and his interpretation of man, there's a lot of violence going on in Mars. Everything's really f***** up there. We should move there.

56:55
Sam
Yeah, that's a really weird thing, which is why I think everything's real. But go on.

56:59
Case
I feel like he's the type of person where you suggest a thing, he's like, yeah, that's a good idea. I should do that. And then you suggest a new thing. He's like, yeah, that's a good idea. I should do that. And that's him this entire movie.

57:08
Ryan
So you're saying he's a four year old?

57:10
Case
Kind of, yeah.

57:12
Sam
Well, I disagree with you, though. I think he's more like there is an obsession. Like, I feel like he's more near diversion. There is an obsession with Mars. There is absolutely a drive, because she tries numerous people try to basically convince him and sell him on Saturn. And his friend also tells him, oh, don't go do the recall thing. It's really bad for people. Right? But he is obsessed with this thing. He's obsessed with Mars. Even with the talk of violence, even with the talk of rebels shooting the place up, he's like, we should move there. I got to get to Mars. I got to go there. No, no, that's a bad place to go. Hey, why don't we go on a cruise? Oh, yeah. Attractive lady that I think I've loved for eight years, who's been the love of my life.

58:01
Sam
Nah, I think I'm going to go to like he is obsessed with Mars.

58:08
Ryan
Yeah, it's a single minded thing.

58:10
Sam
Yeah, it is so single minded. I bet if you asked him, he could give you all the stats of know.

58:17
Case
I'm just saying it's funny because it seems like every ad that he actually watches, he then goes and immediately does the thing. Like he sees the ad for recall. He goes to recall. He sees the ad for, like, actually go to Mars. And he's like, oh, that's how I get to Mars. Okay, I understand that the story has plenty of reasons for why, if it is actually the Hauser pre programmed impulses for the character or the memories of Hauser. However you want to interpret the Hauser plot, pushing that forward. And pushing all these like, that all makes sense in the scenario of this movie being a true story or a story that actually happens to the yeah, but I also just kind of adore that it's like, oh, ad for this thing. Guess I'm going to go do that.

58:55
Case
And I would not be surprised if there's a shot where it's like, oh, there's a Coca Cola. I should go get a Coca Cola.

59:00
Sam
Oh, yeah, no, you're totally right because you would imagine that if you can't even trust your own brain, how untrusting you would be of the rest of the world. But that's not him. Like, he goes into this apartment, he gets a phone call, and he's told by a guy to come down and get his suitcase and he does it. And then he takes that suitcase to an undisclosed location and he opens the suitcase and it's his face talking to him and he's like, do this and do this. And he's like, okay. And he just does it.

59:33
Ryan
Take this towel, wrap it around your head. All right, yeah, sure, why not? And put this thing up your nose and it'll drill into your brain to pull out a tracking. Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah, why not?

59:45
Sam
Yeah, I'll totally do that. That's why I put this here. And then it's like, oh, you got to get to Mars. Okay, well, I'll get to Mars. How am I going to do it? Here's an ad. Sure, that seems like a good way to go. I don't know how else to do it. And I'm going to take this stuff directly to a hotel that's on Mars and hand it to know. And he's just very trusting of the entire and you could say, well, he has no idea what he's doing, so he has no other choices, right. Like, he doesn't really remember anything, so he has no other choice but to do these things. But maybe he does and there's really only maybe, like a couple of lines written in for him to question anything.

01:00:24
Sam
Like he maybe asks the guy a couple of times, like, who are you? How do you know me? And that's about it. And then he just does everything else.

01:00:34
Case
Yeah, it's just like, we ultimately have a plot that feels like such a video game to me, and I adore it for that. Again, I think the movie works better for me from a perspective of it's all in his head because it's like, oh, it's so simple. Everything he has to do is so easy. He keeps getting wounded, but it doesn't actually matter at all. And every time we have a mini boss or a cutscene of like, oh, well, I was writing there. Oh, there's a commercial for a thing. Oh, that's my solution to problems had. Like, it all just plays out so perfectly for him that it just feels like it's scripted. And that's the thing that I really like about this movie.

01:01:09
Case
I commented on Twitter last night when I was doing my rewatch that the opening music feels like a fusion of the Conan the Barbarian soundtrack with the Terminator soundtrack. And I feel like what we're trying to do is sell people like, hey, guys, this is an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. And you know what that means, right? It's going to be this, and this. And the fact that we are playing around with that is this inversion of those tropes. And I think that's intentional. Again, having big, dumb dude who just sort of lucks into all of this is kind of perfect from a perspective of Verhoeven trying to subvert action movie tropes.

01:01:43
Ryan
And I'm glad you brought up the Conan theme because that was something that was in the forefront of my mind when I was watching the opening credits. I was like, that sounds awfully familiar. It sounds like Basil polidoris'theme. And it enhances it and it adds a little bit of electronic thing to it. Like, what sounds like an artificial percussion. Could be a drum machine, could be something else. I don't know. But it augments the proceedings and it's the blend between the digital and the analog that the movie kind of sits at the precipice of.

01:02:17
Case
Yeah. And even if you take a much more literalist approach to this movie, I think that the movie is still it's a subversion of the action movie tropes of the 80s. As we go into the think that's intentional, it certainly is for Verhoeven as a director. What he's trying to make here, I think it is a more satirical piece than what people were expecting. And I think that is why it has had a larger cultural impact than what it could have had, what people would have expected at the right. Like, I'm just really glad to relook at this movie. It's really fun. I think the action scenes are great. The squib work is f****** just brutal and over the top. But you can't help but become desensitized to it because there's so much of it. Everything is so memorable. Quatto is so memorable.

01:03:05
Case
Benny, when he takes his hand off and we get the mutant hand there, which is so freaky looking. Super memorable. Obviously, everyone references the three breasted hooker. All of this, it's all over there. There's. Great. Schwarzenegger one liners. The music is pulsing and interesting. I'm really glad just to look at it again. It's such a fun f****** movie.

01:03:23
Ryan
Yeah, it's Verhoeven's third best film. But when you factor in the fact that those other two are RoboCop and Starship Troopers, that's an achievement.

01:03:35
Sam
I think also for anyone who was listening to this, who has not watched this, which there might be someone, you should definitely watch it because this has held up really well. Because the effects are practical, because the storyline is fun. I mean, okay, it is misogynistic case at that. But honestly, it's a fun movie to watch. And I think you should give it a go. It still holds up and there are some themes where you're like, yeah, that still tracks.

01:04:04
Case
And then I would say also, because this is a classic Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, there is actually a musical adaptation of it. So you should also then go check out Legolands who also did The Predator, the musical. They also did a Total recall. The musical. And it is quite fun.

01:04:18
Sam
And get your to Mars.

01:04:20
Case
Yeah. So on that note, before we all get our astomars because we finally remembered why were here.

01:04:26
Sam
Thank God.

01:04:26
Case
Ryan, thank you for coming on.

01:04:28
Ryan
Oh, thank you for having me. This was so much fun.

01:04:32
Case
Yeah, once the movie got going, it was a little bit more straightforward, but this was the kind of movie that was just really fun to see. Just how brutal a process getting a script made into a final film can be, even if it's coming from an adaptation of a successful author's work, who has had plenty of other successful works adapted, like a 16 year process is not easy to actually make happen.

01:04:53
Sam
Right?

01:04:54
Case
So Ryan, thank you for bringing this to us. And where can people find you follow you? Check out more of your opinions about movies. I am starting to remember that you have a lot of really great ones. So where is that?

01:05:04
Ryan
So if you want to listen to One Track Mind, that is available wherever you find podcasts that's as I mentioned earlier, where we analyze film through the prism of audio commentaries, case was on the last episode that just dropped with Going Greek. You can find us on social media at One Trackmindpod, on Twitter and on Instagram at one. That is the Numeral One Track Mind podcast. I did not get to select that name that was given to me because somebody already took One Track Mind with the on e and I'm still p***** at them for it. And I also a co host of Reels of justice, which Case has also been on. That's a fake movie court where we take a movie and we have a prosecutor, a defender, a judge and a jury.

01:05:47
Ryan
We try to see if a movie is guilty of being a bad movie. It's so much fun. And you can find that on Instagram and Twitter at Reels of justice.

01:05:57
Case
Both of those are a lot of fun. I was so happy on the most recent Reels of justice episode that the case that I was on was used as precedent for the justification for the most recent movie. I was so excited because Sam, you should not be surprised about this. It was Alien Three and I did the beowulf offense.

01:06:13
Sam
I not surprised.

01:06:15
Case
And then it was cited for Bordello of Blood, which was just fantastic.

01:06:20
Sam
Oh, wow. Amazing. You are spreading your madness across the Internet. Of course, the podcast sphere, but yeah.

01:06:28
Case
Everyone should be checking out both of those. Those are really fun shows. One track mind. As soon as you told me about it when you came on Men of Steel that the show hadn't launched yet, I was immediately hooked because I love commentary tracks. I love the ins and outs of movie making and finding out those behind the scenes stories. And some are really interesting because of that and some are interesting because of the things that they don't talk about. So it's just so cool looking at this art form that has been kind of lost because of people moving to streaming and those generally not supporting commentary tracks. But that was such a huge part of my film geekdom of college age and my twenty s.

01:07:04
Case
And so I love that you're bringing attention to it again and making me actively seek out commentary tracks again in a way that I hadn't been for a while.

01:07:11
Ryan
And they're the original podcasts. Like without commentaries, there is no podcasting. And I think that it's, especially now as we transition to streaming and we're getting rid of all this stuff. I find it so depressing. But then you also have places like the Criterion Channel that are uploading their entire extras to various movies, including the commentaries. And Disney Plus has been recently adding commentaries to all the Marvel movies, which but, you know, too little too late. But there are still people out there fighting the good fight, and I hope to be on their side.

01:07:50
Case
Yeah, little known fact, the first attempt I had at getting a podcast off the ground was with our now editor Jeff Moon, and we did a show called The Bizarre Bad Touch Time, which was an attempt at doing commentary tracks on movies. And just us talking about like, this is a good movie and these are all the things we like about it and really trying to identify those things. And those can't be found anywhere, so don't look. But if you do and you find them, let me know because I would love to get some of those commentary tracks back. But it's a thing that I love and I'm so enthusiastic for. So I'm so happy you have that show going.

01:08:21
Case
And again, Reels of justice is just a really fun time, taking court proceedings and trying to make that work into arguing if a movie is actually good or not. So people should definitely check out both of those and then they should head back over to certainpov.com where they can find more episodes of this show and other really cool shows. Let's give a shout out to Fun and Games with Matt and Jeff, because, again, this is the first episode with Jeff as our editor and also Matt was our previous editor. We still love Matt, too. I love Matt more than Sam, even.

01:08:49
Sam
You might say that's a lie. That is a lie. Bold faced lie.

01:08:53
Case
But fun.

01:08:53
Sam
I do not appreciate that. But that's okay. I love Jeff more than you love him.

01:08:58
Case
But Fun and Games is a wonderful show that takes a really introspective look into the video game industry. They'll do some reviews every now and then as bonus content, and they do their Side Quest series where people can just gush about how much they love a video game for five to 15 minutes. But the main show is a discussion about the culture of video game, looking at the issues facing the industry and getting really cool interviews with indie developers. So definitely check that out. It's just a really positive video game podcast, which is rare on the internet, and so I think it's such a breath of fresh air. So please check that out. Again. It's fun and games. You can find it all the podcast places or@certainpov.com sam, if people wanted to find you, where could they find you?

01:09:36
Sam
Well, they can find me here at another path, or they can find me on our Discord if I remember that it exists. Other than that, I am like, far too busy trying to remember all the things that I've forgotten about my life and things that are happening and maybe even if there is time at all and if there are planets and did I put my water down somewhere. So if you have any complaints about anything I said, I will be too busy thinking about what I have to do tomorrow. So you should bother Case at well.

01:10:11
Case
You can find me on Twitter for as long as it exists and you can find me there at Case Aiken. You can find me on Instagram at Ketzel Coatle Five, because I remember that I had an Aim screen name by that, and I'm going to fight to hold on to that memory, even though I'm probably going to have my mind wiped at some point. The show is currently on Twitter at another pass and you can find all of our stuff wherever you get your podcasts or on the certain POV website where you can find a link to the aforementioned discord server where you can just interact with us all. It's a really good time. We have great conversations about all kinds of topics. We just opened up a TTRPG channel.

01:10:45
Case
The music channel has gotten really active since we added Jukebox Vertigo to our network. There's tons of movie conversation, video game conversation, so come check it out. It's a really good time. But then once you have checked it out, you should come back here for our next episode. Sam, what do we have next?

01:11:00
Sam
Well, next time we'll be talking about Highlander Two, the quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.

01:11:12
Case
Thanks for listening to certain point of view's. Another Pass podcast. Don't miss an episode, just subscribe and review the show on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com.

01:11:24
Sam
Another Pass is a certain POV production. Our hosts are Sam Alicea and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Jeff MOONIn. Our logo and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our intro theme is by Vin Macrie and our outro theme is by Matt Brogan.

01:11:41
Case
I'm really happy with that forget things bit. And I did not know I was going to do it until I started saying it. Feel like that was a really good vehicle for opening the episode.

01:11:53
Sam
I thought it was good. It was better than Groundhog Day. Although that wasn't because it was because.

01:11:58
Case
We had to CPOV Certainpov.com.

AI meeting summary:

●      The meeting **discussed** the making of the movie Total Recall, including challenges like **food poisoning** and injuries during filming in Mexico City. They addressed script drafts and **Verhoeven's** dictatorial directing style, leading to intense fights and safety concerns, ultimately resulting in an **R rating** after edits.

●      **Participants** praised the practical effects, makeup, and music of Total **Recall**, emphasizing how it subverted '80s action movie tropes to create memorable moments like Quatto and the three-breasted character. They examined Arnold **Schwarzenegger's** character's naivete towards Mars and likened the storyline to a video game. **Podcasts** analyzing films like "One Track Mind" and "Reels of Justice" were recommended for insightful discussions.

●      The meeting highlighted **Total Recall's** enduring appeal due to its practical effects, engaging storyline, and criticisms of misogyny. They mentioned musical adaptations based on Schwarzenegger movies and encouraged viewers to revisit this classic sci-fi action film. The intricate details of **the production journey** from casting decisions to thematic explorations of capitalism and planetary conflicts on Mars were discussed, alongside **actor** discomfort and Verhoeven's strict directing style for realism.

Outline:

●      Chapter 1: Background and Development Challenges (26:28 - 31:08)

●      26:28: Description of the 14-year production journey and the scrapping of plans due to bankruptcy.

●      30:30: Introduction of Goldman's rewrites and the extensive drafting process involving multiple writers.

●      Chapter 2: Production and Script Evolution (31:32 - 39:17)

●      31:32: Verhoeven's familiarity with early drafts and Goldman's adaptation process.

●      36:00: Creation of the plot for the third act involving Venusville running out of air.

●      38:55: Overview of the extensive script development with 40 drafts, seven directors, and four co-writers.

●      Chapter 3: Filming and Final Cut (44:09 - 46:39)

●      44:09: Discussion on the chronological shooting of the movie and challenges faced.

●      46:19: Details on the final cut of the film, including its initial rating and runtime adjustments.

●      Chapter 4: Themes and Impact (37:03 - 57:37)

●      37:03: Exploration of the movie's interesting themes and the northern-southern block conflict.

●      57:37: Delving into the process of adapting the script into a final film, highlighting the challenges faced and the eventual outcome.

●      Chapter 5: Post-Production and Reflection (1:04:00 - 1:11:35)

●      1:04:00: Analysis of the brutal process of script adaptation and the 16-year journey to bring the movie to fruition.

●      1:11:12: Invitation to engage with related podcasts and discussions on film and video game culture.

●      (Note: Timestamps are approximate and represent the start of each section within the conversation.)

Action items:

●      **Case Aiken**

●      Review the outline (00:58)

●      Verify if there is a planner available to check for forgotten tasks (00:52)

●      **Ryan**

●      Plan to watch "Total Recall" (1:04)

●      Discuss the impact and cultural reception of movies (1:02:48)

●      **Case**

●      Remembered to open the episode with a forgetful bit (1:11)

●      Manage the show's social media accounts effectively (1:05)

Notes:

●      🎬 **Challenges in "Total Recall" Production**

●      **16-year development process**

●      **Difficulty adapting a 23-page short story into a script**

●      **Practical effects and detailed production**

●        

●      🎥 **Interpretation of Movie Events**

●      **Debate on whether events are real or a dream**

●      **Differing perspectives of director and studio**

●        

●      🌌 **Themes in the Movie**

●      **Unchecked capitalism and planetary conflict**

●      **Impact on narrative and viewer experience**

●        

●      👤 **Character of Protagonist (Arnold Schwarzenegger)**

●      **Complexity and enjoyment added to the story**

●        

●      🎞️ **Production Challenges**

●      **Practical effects and filming in Mexico**

●      **Influence on final outcome of the movie**