Case and Sam are joined by Randy Allain from the Media / Lit podcast to ask "Who are your people?" Tune in for this dissection of Solo: A Star Wars Story!

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Overview

In the latest episode of the podcast, hosts Case and Sam welcome guest Randy from Media Lit to delve into "Solo: A Star Wars Story," rating the film as 'fine' but flawed and assigning it a C grade. The discussion highlights Alden Ehrenreich's portrayal of Han Solo, praises Donald Glover’s performance as Lando Calrissian, and critiques the characters' limited screen time, particularly for Lando and L3. The conversation shifts to character dynamics, the film’s pacing, and the handling of complex themes such as slavery, with commentary on visual effects and significant plot elements like the Kessel Run. The hosts explore the film's production history, specifically the impacts of the directorial switch from Lord & Miller to Ron Howard, and suggest improvements for pacing and character development. They propose alternative narrative structures for the heist elements and discuss how to enhance character relationships and thematic portrayals. The episode wraps up with final thoughts on the film's relevance in the Star Wars universe and additional promotional content, including Randy's other projects and plans for future episodes.

Notes

Introduction and Overview (00:00 - 09:20)

• Podcast hosts Case and Sam introduce the topic: Solo: A Star Wars Story

• Guest Randy from Media Lit podcast joins the discussion

• The movie is described as 'fine' but flawed, given a C grade

• Criticism of the scene explaining Han Solo's name origin

Cast and Characters (09:20 - 18:56)

• Discussion of Alden Ehrenreich's performance as Han Solo

• Praise for Donald Glover as Lando Calrissian

• Criticism of limited screen time for Lando and L3

• Analysis of Emilia Clarke's character Kira and her role in the plot

Character Dynamics and Plot Elements (18:56 - 27:32)

• Examination of Han and Chewbacca's meeting and relationship

• Discussion of Woody Harrelson's character Beckett and his crew

• Criticism of the movie's pacing and overabundance of plot elements

Visual Effects and World-building (27:32 - 37:11)

• Praise for the design of droid character L3

• Discussion of the Kessel Run sequence and its importance to the plot

• Criticism of the movie's handling of slavery and oppression themes

Supporting Characters and Themes (37:11 - 48:41)

• Analysis of Paul Bettany's character Dryden Vos

• Discussion of Darth Maul's cameo and its implications

• Examination of the movie's themes of rebellion and criminal underworld

Production History and Directorial Changes (48:41 - 57:10)

• Discussion of the change in directors from Lord & Miller to Ron Howard

• Analysis of how the change affected the movie's tone and style

• Speculation on what a Lord & Miller version might have looked like

Critique and Improvement Ideas (57:11 - 01:07:49)

• Suggestions for improving the movie's pacing and character development

• Discussion of how to better integrate the heist elements of the plot

• Ideas for enhancing the relationships between characters

Alternative Plot Structures (01:07:49 - 01:20:24)

• Proposal for a more 'Ocean's Eleven' style approach to the heist plot

• Suggestions for restructuring Han's backstory and relationship with Kira

• Ideas for better integrating Lando and other supporting characters

Refinement of Improvement Ideas (01:20:25 - 01:30:44)

• Further discussion on making Han and Kira's relationship more familial

• Suggestions for improving the portrayal of the criminal underworld

• Ideas for better integrating themes of corruption and rebellion

Conclusion and Podcast Information (01:30:44 - 01:40:33)

• Final thoughts on the movie and its place in the Star Wars franchise

• Information about the hosts' and guest's other projects and social media

• Details about upcoming podcast episodes and related content

Action items

• Check out Randy's podcast Media Lit and other work (01:36:05)

• Listen to Randy's appearance on the Socially Distanced podcast for their 200th episode Avengers draft (01:36:39)

• Join the Discord for ongoing conversations about the podcast topics (01:38:49)

• Listen to the Reignite podcast for discussions on Bioware games (01:39:08)

• Tune in to the next episode about Highlander 2: The Quickening (01:39:49)

Transcription

00:00
Randy
Dryden Vos is still sending Kira along to keep tabs on this mission, and we've got all these potential double crosses that have been established there in place. You know, as Sam mentioned earlier, we're going to get way more Lando. Way more Lando. And Han, I like way more Lando in L3.

00:19
Case
I have a really good feeling about this.

00:21
Sam
I do too.

00:22
Case
Oh, yeah.

00:28
Randy
Welcome to certain POV's, another pass podcast.

00:31
Case
With Case and Sam where we take.

00:33
Randy
Another look at movies that we find fascinating but flawed. Let's see how we could have fixed them.

00:42
Case
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to another pass podcast. I'm Case Aiken, and as always, I am joined by my co host, Sam Alicea.

00:48
Sam
Hi.

00:51
Case
Sam. You know the roots of this show, right? It comes as a spin off of a Star wars podcast, right?

00:58
Sam
A certain point of view.

00:59
Case
Certain point of view, yeah. And I feel like it's time for us to get back to our roots. Maybe go back maybe even like a little bit before our roots necessarily and something in.

01:12
Sam
Before the times of the regular movies. Are you saying?

01:15
Case
Yeah, right. But not one of the big ensemble movies. Something a little bit more solo. A Star Wars Story. I'm sorry, I was trying to make that one work. We'll see. If you at home think that one worked fine, let me know. Because today we are talking about a Star Wars Story.

01:34
Sam
Oh, God. Go on.

01:35
Case
God, I'm so dad brained. It's, it's amazing.

01:38
Sam
I, I actually really enjoyed it. I, I, There was a feeling of, oh, no, he's going to do it. And then you did it. So, like, it paid off for me at least.

01:47
Case
Oh, yeah. And like, for a movie like this where everything is sort of forecast pretty well in advance.

01:52
Sam
Oh, yeah.

01:53
Case
And then, and then paid off. Well, that's fitting. And to have this conversation, we are joined by Randy from Media Lit.

02:03
Randy
Thank you so much for having me tonight. I'm really excited to have an excuse to go back and watch this film. Case, can I tell you something about my last name?

02:13
Case
Sure, yeah. Go for it. Yeah.

02:15
Randy
So my name is Randy Allain. And believe it or not, when my grandfather enlisted with the Empire, he didn't have a last name, but it just so happened he was walking down a lane, so they just decided to put that down and here it is.

02:32
Case
You know what? That's fair. And why don't we just, like, just take that band aid right off? The infamous scene from this movie that we're going to have to talk about at some point is the Han. What? Who are your people? Oh, I have no people. I'm alone. Han Solo. Heh. I'm proud of myself. Okay? I. This movie is overall, like, fine for me. I would. I would give this a solid C. And that sounds really bad, but like, I mean that in that, like, I'm not mad I saw it. I'm not mad I rewatched it. I will be happy to re watch it for a thing, but if it's not for a thing, I am never going to put any brain power into remembering that this movie existed. Like, it was fine, but man, that one scene where they just.

03:19
Case
They just had to explain the origin of his name. Why? Why? Why?

03:26
Sam
Because I don't know.

03:29
Case
Well, and especially that he keeps it. And not just that he keeps it, but like, I mean, I guess, like, we don't. I'm not entirely sure if Leia takes the name when they get married in the new continuity, but for the longest time, like it was Leia Organa Solo in all of the Extended Universe material. And regardless of if, you know, Jason and Jaina and Anakin are gone, we still have Ben Solo, like, right? Why does he take his dad's name? Take the name of the royalty?

03:58
Sam
Yeah, exactly. Actually, like, Han should have like, gone with that if his name isn't anything, right? Like, he should have become Han Organa. Like, that's the better name. That's the name that holds power.

04:13
Case
And it's just weird. Like, like I. I realize that we're like just diving right into like, man, this one particular scene is really annoying, but it's really annoying.

04:22
Randy
Well, I mean, that would be like the five second pitch, you know, just cut that scene.

04:28
Case
Well, why don't. Why don't we take it back and actually first off, Randy, we just jumped right in there. Why don't you give everyone the Reader's digest version of who you are and why you're here?

04:40
Randy
Sure. So in real life, I am an English teacher at a high school and I've recently become a podcaster as well. I've got a few different projects going on, but my personal project that led to me connecting with you is a podcast I started in January called Media Lit. It's basically a catch all term to allow myself and my co host to look at all sorts of media that means something to us and to our guests. So we do some films and television, music, etc. Some of it is highly renowned stuff, including great literature, and some of it is less highbrow. For instance, the soundtrack to the film Coyote Ugly, but we treat all of it just as seriously well.

05:29
Case
And I think it's important to be able to look seriously at even things that are not considered high brow material. Like, that's great that you're doing that.

05:37
Sam
Yeah, for sure. I think.

05:38
Randy
Thanks so much.

05:39
Sam
We've definitely lost a little bit of that. People are just sponges right now and not really filtering through things and. Yeah, that sounds great.

05:49
Case
And thus, like material like today's is perfect to have you on for because I wouldn't say this is particularly highbrow, but there's a lot of like meta text to dig into. Like, there's a lot of information about behind the scenes. There's a lot of just general thoughts about the franchise that we're going to have to deal with when talking about this movie. It's not existing in a vacuum. So there's certainly a lot to talk about here. So. But that's great. Like, I'm so glad to have you on for this one. And it's cool that we're here. It's. It's cool that this movie honestly was made. Like I am happy that Star wars material is coming out and that they're trying things.

06:24
Case
And like there's a version of this movie that to me seems like energetic and fun as a pitch, you know, like a, like combining American Graffiti with Star wars as like kind of a concept right there, which is like kind of perfect. Like have a young, you know, a young rebellious Han Solo character, like racing around in a speeder and like, you can see why that would like, sell it to a studio. But the franchise has a lot of weight bearing down on it. And that weight has been really apparent in the, in all of the projects of the Disney era, but especially the side projects. The. This and Rogue One both had very similar stories in terms of the behind the scenes issues with their directors producing what are both, I think, interesting pieces to have existed.

07:10
Case
Rogue One, I think, has a more interesting discussion overall. But, you know, this one is certainly like postulating, can you do one of these like prequel origin story movies and have it be engaging and like, you know, and at the same time like give the audience what they want and do something that isn't just a Star wars movie or just a Star wars prequel or what, you know what, like a saga movie, however you want to talk about it. Like, this is the first movie that is like it, if that makes sense. Is it effective? I don't think so. I, I I think, like. I think that it is, like I said, a C movie. Like, maybe C plus In. In the. The best light of things. It would.

07:50
Case
It would be a C, C, B minus if this came out in, like, the 90s or the early 2000s where we didn't have the Star wars material that we do, but we have so much Star wars material now that, like, you can't grade this on any kind of curve.

08:03
Randy
Yeah, absolutely. And, like, there's so much promise there. You know, they got Lawrence Kasdan to come back and be attached to this script, who is so involved in the early films, and Han Solo. So you can see that there was some excitement, and they really seemed to believe in this project.

08:18
Case
Yeah. And like, that. Just right there, you would think, well, Empire is the Han Solo movie of the original trilogy, you know, very much. The first one is introducing everyone, but Luke is our viewpoint character, and Luke is our main character for Return of the Jedi. But, like, we've got two concurrent stories going on with the. With the Millennium Falcon and with Luke in Empire. And so we actually get a lot of characterization for Han. Like, he becomes very much one of our. Like, a deuteragonist in that scenario, as opposed to the supporting man. And so, like, you think Kasdan being attached to this, that's great. Like, the pedigree for this movie is wonderful.

08:57
Randy
Yeah. And even compared to some of the less successful content that's come out since, you know, I look at something like the Book of Boba Fett and, you know, like, this film did, like, the land speeder, you know, throw back to the past more successfully. So there's some DNA of things they wanted to do and they still want to do. For sure.

09:19
Case
Yeah. And there's elements that I think, like, are successful, at least in terms of concept, like that, like, the actual slave uprising scene, I think, is very funny. There are good moments throughout this whole thing. I think Donald Glover is a great Lando Calrissian.

09:33
Sam
Yeah.

09:34
Case
I have mixed feelings about a lot of the rest of the cast of this movie, but, okay, we get the meeting of Han and Chewie, and that scene I actually rather enjoy, like, in term, like, and not just like, oh, it's. It's fine for this movie. But I mean, like, in terms of us seeing a thing that we have heard so much about and finally getting to visualize it doesn't fail at its mission.

09:55
Sam
Yeah. And that's actually like, pretty, like, fun and funny. And it's like, automatically they're like, you're gonna trust me and it's like, what are you doing? Chewie, don't do it. You're gonna be stuck with him for the rest of your life. But it's great. It's like a great moment.

10:10
Case
No, he'll be stuck with him for the rest of Han's life. True.

10:15
Sam
Wow. Wow. I would say too soon, but it's not. It's true.

10:20
Case
I mean, I'm just saying, like. Like, you know, extended universe, legacy, timeline aside, like, Chewie is. Is forecast to live a lot longer than Han. It's like, yeah, he can live with me for a couple years. Like, it'll be fine. Like, I mean, really. Like, what's 40 years to, like, Chewbacca?

10:36
Sam
You're basically saying, right, I'm not doing anything better.

10:41
Case
Well, it's that Han is the dog.

10:42
Sam
I'll keep him as a pet.

10:44
Case
Exactly.

10:45
Randy
I love it. Yeah. They dated him at, what, 190 already?

10:50
Case
Yeah. In this movie.

10:51
Randy
Yeah.

10:51
Case
Which means he's like 205 by the time we get to Star Wars. So. Yeah. I mean, he's a Wookie. Wookiees have a really long lifespan. I think it's like three or four hundred years. It's very much the invincible scenario of, what will you have in 500 years? Well, I definitely won't have my old buddy Han because he had the lifespan from my perspective of a tick.

11:14
Sam
Wow, getting dark here.

11:17
Case
Well, no, I'm just saying, you know, like, regardless of artificially shortened, like, that's.

11:22
Sam
Not why we adopt Pet's case.

11:25
Case
It's true. Because he feels the companionship in love and, like. And Han was a good boy. Like, in this movie, he's very much like a good boy.

11:33
Randy
I do love that setup, though, because when you watch those original films as a kid, you don't assume necessarily that Chewie has all of that weight behind him. And I love that he does, because in the original film, you've got Leia just calling him a walking carpet. Meanwhile, we now know he is this wise, elderly soul who's seen a lot.

11:55
Case
Yeah. And he's a mechanic. He's always the one working on the ship and making improvements, fixing things. Like, he's, you know, a capable pilot. He's it. You know, Wookies are honestly just a very impressive species in the Star wars universe. And Chewie's always been our, you know, viewpoint character for that. And it's all. Okay, so here's like, a weird element that's going on in this movie which is that, like, Wookiees have this scenario of being discriminated against. In Star wars canon, they're often portrayed as, you know, monsters, like, as beasts, disregarding the fact that they are actually very, you know, sophisticated creatures with, like, rich technology. And even though they live an arboreal life where they, you know, spend the majority of their lives, like, high up in the trees, like, they have a community, they have, you know, a settlement in civilization.

12:42
Case
They have a language. It's just not a language that we can speak. And they have like, all this stuff related to the fact that they are, you know, so animalistic. Like, they have this whole, like, concept of, like, the mad claw. If, like, you use your claws to attack a Wookie, you, as a wookie are like, well, you've let the beast take over inside of you. And all the stuff going on. This movie deals with oppression and tyranny and slavery in a lot of ways. And including with Wookiees specifically. Like, there is the whole, like, the Kessel Run sequence does a lot of work in terms of, like, themes of this movie. But, like, they've got just run of the mill slaves, they've got all of the robots, all the droids. And then specifically we have sequences with Wookies.

13:24
Case
And I think all of those have slightly different permutations in the world of Star wars, but they all are part of the. The lens that Star wars is to, like, look on our modern society and sort of, like, comment on things. Like, the droid stuff has been there since the beginning. Like, the whole, like, we wouldn't let your kind be in the bar kind of scene. And so even though, like. And they are, you know, a servant class in this situation, like, it's kind of messed up in this movie has moments where it seems very aware of, like, where it's messed up and is trying to say something about it. And also moments where it's like, don't think about it and tries to move on.

14:04
Sam
It definitely does that. Like, I wouldn't like, again, you know, there's. There is always something when Disney is involved, right? Where they kind of smooth out some of the rougher kind of messages, right? Which is, I think, why, like, people respond so much to Andor, right? Because, like, even though it's Disney produced, it has teeth, right? Like, and especially that last episode, right? Has teeth. And so for something that Disney has put out, especially that Star wars, it feels really weird because this movie is the perfect example of, like, them, like, being like, oh, no, pull back. Pull back. Funny, right? Like, even with the droids, right? So first of all, I love a sassy droid. I will always be sad that a sassy droid passes on. I will always root for a sassy droid. I'm always going to do that.

14:53
Sam
But that whole scene is played for comedy, like in that mine, right? That whole scene where she's liberating all of the other droids. Like, we're rising up, right? And it's like, this is a really serious thing, actually, right? Like, the whole.

15:12
Case
Well, considering that's been her character arc up until this point. Or like, her character.

15:17
Sam
Right, right.

15:18
Case
And so it's playful is so weird.

15:20
Sam
It's so weird. Like, and so, like, there's, like. It's like, weird things because in this script, there are things that have teeth, right? Like, there are these basically, you know, the. The bunch that he runs into which could have become a found family, which doesn't become a found family, right? The first group of people with Woody House and, like, that group of people, like, they all have, like, these sob stories, right? And they're. They're just trying to get by under the guise of the Empire. How do you make a living when everything is just, like, basically, like, controlled by fascism, right? Like, and. And how do you live outside of that realm? Well, you become a criminal, right? And so here's a bunch of criminals and they have sad fucking stories, and it's just, like, laughing around the thing, right?

16:10
Sam
And it's like, you know, and basically he's like, you know, even Chewbacca's story, like, you get his lore, right? Looking for my clan. We were taken as slaves. And it's like, wow. It's either his family or his clan. Okay, well, let's go do our heist. Like, there's no, like, there's, like, that's, like, announced so that, you know, but then we're straight onto the action. So there's not really time for you to really think about all these things that are happening around you. It's kind of like the trauma of living through possible fascism. But you know what I mean? Like, this movie doesn't really take a breather. And even at the end, right, you've got people who basically were destroyed by the mining of materials, and they're here trying to take it back and all of this stuff, and they're against these gangsters.

17:03
Sam
And yes, Han makes the right call because this is how we know that even though Han is definitely willing to live outside of the rules of the law, he's not a bad guy, which is fine. That's his character. We love that for him. But Again, it's just kind of glossed over. This is the beginning of a rebellion. You're welcome. It's so interesting because there's all these elements that could be teeth are just not, you know, like, it's just. Disney does this a lot. It polishes all the edges.

17:39
Randy
No, I agree with that. Like, even before Disney got their hands on Star wars, you know, George Lucas was feeling this. There seems to be this fear that we're not going to think Han Solo is a good guy. There's the whole Han shot first controversy that's been, you know, reversed through the updated versions of the original films. So, like, weirdly, my favorite thing in this movie was at the end, they let Han shoot first.

18:08
Case
Yeah.

18:08
Randy
When he's. But at the same time, I believe he's a good guy. I don't know if he's at a place on his arc where we need him, like, feeding resources to a burgeoning rebellion. I don't know if he's there yet. I think that's potentially, like, the danger of a prequel. We're gonna meet this guy on an arc that we love, but do we really need to, like, prove that he's already on it, you know, decades earlier? And I don't. I think that's one thing that makes it feel mixed, and maybe it's why they're afraid to lean too far in any. Into any one of those angles.

18:41
Case
Yeah. So I am somewhat dismissive of the discourse of Plotters versus Pantsers. I think that it was kind of a pop culture thing a few years back, and people reference it a little too highly. But I am going to bring it up here. I think that this is the danger of being too much of a plotter, where we have all of the beats that we're going to get to eventually. And so this is. Where can we have the fan service? Where can we sort of set up all the things that will eventually happen? Like the infant's nest situation at the end where it's like, we could use a man like you. No. Maybe one day then, you know, like, is something to the effect of the line right there.

19:22
Sam
Right.

19:22
Case
Where the whole conversation is like, all right, well, Han will eventually be this hero of the rebellion. Eventually he'll be fucking General Solo. Like, he is going to go up this way. And so we have to check off these boxes rather than sort of allowing the story to kind of breathe in a natural way. Because the Han that we see in this movie doesn't feel like he wouldn't at. By the end of this. Join up with the. Whatever the hell they're actually called. Like, infants nest. Like skywriters, Whatever the. Whatever it is.

19:51
Sam
Right.

19:52
Case
Cloud riders.

19:52
Sam
I don't know.

19:53
Randy
I don't remember. Darth Vader voice modulator armor people.

19:57
Case
Right, exactly. Like, the Han of this movie, if you're allowing him to grow in a natural direction, would already be on the path to being part of the rebellion. It's. But we have to have the checkbox of. Well, heard about this big gang lord on Tatooine setting up a big heist kind of thing, and it's like, well, all right, cool. And, like, look, I. I, for years ran a Star Wars RPG podcast set between Star wars and Empire Strikes Back, where there were a lot of things I. I put in there as, like, fan servicey. Bits of Empire Strikes Back is the next movie. So here's all the things that are about to happen, you know, that, like, must have happened at some point in between. I, I get the impulse to do that. This movie does too much of it. Like, you.

20:40
Case
You can do some of it. Like the. The end where he shoots Beckett and, like, yeah, that's. That's a good character scene right there. In addition to being fan service, you know, the chewy meeting is. Is good because we need to have that dynamic with them. And, hey, it's fun to, like, see that setup right there. There's so much of this movie where it's just like, well, everyone knows this, or enough people know about this thing about the character we should put it in. In this movie specifically. Which is so frustrating because there's all the sequel bait at the end where you're like, well, if you were trying to make a movie that was going to sell a sequel, like, hold. Like, save some of this shit. We don't need all of this. But, like, for example, like, the Han Solo gun, like, which.

21:25
Case
Where it's like, oh, all right, I'm gonna take this sniper rifle, dismantle it and give it to you. And now you've got, like, your signature gun, which, you know, it's just a gun. Like, it's never been a big thing for the character.

21:38
Randy
Yeah. Like, they had to do, like, the whole Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Like, here's where each piece of the costume comes from.

21:46
Case
Right. And that at least is like. Well, it's just the opening sequence of the movie, and it establishes, like, three things, and one of which is, like, a scar in his face. So, like, you kind of had to go with it.

21:56
Randy
Sure, sure.

21:58
Case
Or at least it was, like, fun to, like, establish it. But instead, like, here's everything. Let's just do the whole movie is just that the whole movie is just River Phoenix.

22:10
Sam
It's so much everything. Yeah.

22:12
Case
Why don't we talk. We've mentioned cast and whatnot. Why don't we talk about the people actually in this movie and the people who actually made this movie? So I am looking at the name to try to pronounce it correctly. Alden Ehrenreich. I think I got it. I thought he was fine on my rewatch. I appreciated a lot more of the Han Solo isms that he had worked into his performance. I think he was fine. I think that the weird leaking about him needing acting lessons was bullshit and also kind of douchey on the part of Disney. But I don't get why you needed it. He's doing fine in this movie.

22:50
Sam
Yeah, no, I think he's fine. I think. I think it's really difficult when an actor like Harrison Ford who really embodied, you know, just Han Solo so much and is so much part of, like, just, like, everyone's collective idea of who. Because he is Han Solo in so many ways. So it's really hard to, like, bring that to life or try to even do that without seeming like you're, like, trying to just do an impression of a person which would come off as fake. And I think that he did fine. He had enough mannerisms, and I would posit that people grow into new things. So, like, I didn't need him to be dead letter perfect and stuff. I just needed him to be, you know, sarcastic enough. And honestly, it's kind of nice that he's a little more optimistic, right?

23:47
Sam
Because, like, the truth is that this Han is more optimistic. He is more cocky, which Han's still cocky, Right? But he's been. He's seen shit by the time, like, Luke meets him. Right? So it makes sense to me, like, how he was portrayed and the kind of, like, oh, this was him, you know, when he still believed. Right. In all of his schemes, this was him. When he trusted that he would just get it done. Right? They even. This might have been too much. They had him said, I've got a good feeling about this, which is that.

24:25
Randy
Yeah.

24:25
Sam
And I was like, I think that's kind of funny. But also, maybe you're going a little too far. Like, with, like, this is how he's different. He's got a good. He won't be saying that in the future.

24:36
Case
I think it works better Depending on the tone of the movie. And I think it works better. Better in the comedy version of this movie.

24:42
Sam
Right.

24:43
Case
Which we'll get to in a minute, but.

24:45
Sam
Right, right. So. And again, this movie doesn't know how serious or how funny it wants to be, and that's part of its issue. But I. Yeah, I agree with you, Casey. He was fine. Like, honestly, on the rewatch, like, there was nothing really about him that made me go, oh, no, I hate that. Like, I liked him. He's fine. He's fine.

25:03
Randy
You know, that whole conversation kind of defines my relationship with this movie, because when it was first announced, I rolled my eyes. I was very skeptical. I said, why would you use your resources to take on the impossible task of recreating Harrison Ford? And then, you know, based on the research I did for today, it sounds like Lord and Miller really had lost the casting crew to a certain extent. Like, it sounds like the atmosphere on set was not great. And it seems like maybe people were relieved when we had a new director come in Ron Howard, but then to have, you know, all this information leaking about the acting coach and stuff, it kind of frustrated me and put me back on Alden's side.

25:47
Randy
And perhaps it's my lifetime love of Han Solo that did this to me and gave me a problem with authority, but it just kind of reeked of. You made a decision that was probably bad on its face, and now you're creating this atmosphere. To imply it's someone else's problem just feels like such a detached, administrative move to me. And it put me in the place where I was like, I'm gonna give this film a shot. And I really hoped it was gonna be great.

26:16
Case
Yeah. And also, thank God they didn't try to digitally recreate Han Solo, because, again, this is after Rogue One. Disney is not afraid to do that with some characters. And you could imagine them, like, superimposing Harrison Ford's face on Alden Ehrenreich.

26:32
Randy
Yeah.

26:33
Case
Or doing something kind of like. Like Looper and, like, kind of splitting the difference between their faces. Yeah.

26:39
Randy
I almost wonder if this experience is what's pushed them to keep messing with that with, you know, like, Luke and Mandalorian and whatnot.

26:46
Case
Yeah.

26:47
Randy
Or no. Or no. That was technically Book of Boba Fett, I guess.

26:52
Case
Well, no. And also, like, Season two.

26:56
Sam
Yeah. I think, Susan.

26:57
Case
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I mean, clearly, like, doing a full movie about a character was going to be difficult regardless. And honestly, like, I don't know how much, like, super Young Han Solo or not Harrison Ford footage they had, you know, he. He made it big when he was in his 30s. So even though he had acting beforehand, like, it's not like, there's just like, the wealth of material that we have for the.

27:21
Sam
For.

27:21
Case
For the actors who, you know, their Star wars was, you know, their early 20s. And like, that's the specific error. Like, we're trying to recreate a character from even a younger Han Solo than what we've ever seen. So it certainly a difficult task there. But, yeah, I think he's doing fine. And like, again, the tone of the movie can kind of, like, take some of his performance to be either appropriate or inappropriate for the scene, depending on, like, what the movie is supposed to be. Woody Harrelson as Beckett. I generally like Woody Harrelson. Like, he's. He's a funny, weird dude. He did a show at New World Stages back when I worked there. So, like, I've met him and he's. He's a. I mean, he refuses to have a cell phone.

28:03
Case
So he would always, like, require, like, the use of an office every time he had to make a phone call. And it's like, yeah, of course, Mr. Harrison. That's fine. I think he's like, I. As this sort of, like, Long John Silver type character. I think he does a good enough job in this role. Maybe too good a job, because, like, you do trust him a lot because he's got that kind of charming nature to him.

28:26
Sam
Yeah. But that works for his character. Right. If you're going to be a person who may betray everyone you've ever known, you might want a little charm on that. Con men often do have a lot of charm.

28:41
Randy
Yeah. And so it's like a great early role model for a Han Solo. Where is he learning some of that. That faked confidence?

28:49
Case
Yeah. I think the only thing that bugs me is that we spend so much time with him, with his first crew. And by so much time, I just mean that this movie is long and we. And like, their. Their first heist that goes terribly is, while relatively fast, is still a long sequence. And it kind of contradicts the whole, like, you're predictable, you could betray anyone kind of thing. When he's got a crew that are willing to lay down their lives for him because of their, like, loyalty to this man.

29:16
Sam
Yeah.

29:17
Case
Like, it's. It's not like he sold them out or anything. It's not like he even put them in a situation where they would die and he wouldn't like it. Just went bad and, like, one guy got shot and the other person decided to blow up a bridge rather than, like, not do the heist. Mm.

29:33
Sam
Yeah.

29:34
Case
So I don't know. He, like, I think the opening stuff with him is too, like, he's too much of a good guy in that one. Like a lovable, scoundrel type good guy, but still, like, comes off as a good guy. Like, he's got people who care about him, and so we sort of, like, care about him too.

29:49
Randy
Yeah, that's a great point.

29:52
Sam
I definitely agree. I think. I mean, honestly, like, I kind of felt like. And I think maybe this is because I've always been a Lando fan. I just felt like I wanted Lando to come in sooner.

30:03
Case
Oh, yeah.

30:04
Sam
And also, you have, like, such a great casting for it, right? And, like, I mean, I think, like, at least 30, almost 40 minutes of the movie go by before Lando, like, even shows up. And I feel like you're doing a disservice to, like, the friendship aspect. Right? Like, they're old friends, blah, blah. Like, I wanted. I remember leaving the movie theater, too, and I felt this way again at the second watching that. I wish that had happened, that Lando had joined them sooner and had been there more often. Right. Like, I. I love what they did with him. I love him being a diva. I love him being, like, a card guy. I love him, like, being party man. That's all good. That's all good stuff.

30:48
Sam
But I feel like you introduced me to characters I liked in the very beginning just to kill them off, to basically, you know, show a heist and interview, like, introduce Woody's character when we could have gotten closer to Lando sooner. Like, you know, and, you know, I went back and forth and I'll. We can bounce some stuff on pitch time, but, like, I have some ideas, but. But I thought that was frustrating for me, you know, and, like, it was nice to get fire, like, around the fire top. Cause I love that. That's my favorite thing about, like, Lord of the Rings and all that stuff. But it wasn't necessary, or at least if it was, we needed to do it with, like, the people that were going to be in the movie for the whole of the movie.

31:37
Case
Yeah. Not just a bunch of people being like, this. This is my last score. And then. And then I'm retiring, and then dead. Yeah. No, I totally agree. Donald Glover is so good in this part, and I wanted him sooner. And, like, having him be part of more than one heist would have been fun. There's this. It's now a legacy book called Scoundrels, which is just doing a heist movie. It's doing Ocean's Eleven set before Empire, but, like, Lando and Han are working together and it's like their last time interacting before the Cloud City incident. But like, they put together like a whole team of scoundrels to break into things. And, and I wanted that in the, in this.

32:18
Case
Like, I wanted this to be, you know, like, have an early screwed up heist with Lando and then have them come back together to do the Kessel Run and have the Kessel Run heist be the big important thing. Because, like, the Kessel Run is so important, but, like, have more of Lando because, like one. Donald Glover is one of your bigger stars in this movie and he's coming in doing a very on the nose imitation of Billy Dee Williams and having a lot of fun with it. Like, if your goal is to put, like, youthful energy into this movie, like, this is one of your actors, who's going to do that and who's going to sell, like, the positive vibes that we all want for this movie?

33:00
Sam
Yeah. I also think that it would have given Han a fighting chance. I think that, like, although having him like hang out with Chewbacca and stuff like that's still great. But I think, like, scenes actually very much work between the two actors. Like when you see Lando and Han on screen together, when they're like doing their little bickering, oh, I don't trust you. Oh, I don't like that. That kind of stuff. It actually really works. And it helps that Donald Glover is sometimes playing flirt, like he's being flirtatious. But I think that would have been even more fun than the love story we get. Like, you don't have to have Han respond more positively to that. I'm not like positing a BL story here. Like, I'm not saying boy love right now, but what I'm saying is there.

33:52
Case
Was all that talk behind the scenes about Lando being pansexual.

33:57
Sam
Right. And like, they only did it with the robot. Like, the robot, it works. They like kind of hinted that they had a sexual thing, so they had it in that one part, but that's not the point. I think the point is that the scenes between the two actors actually work. They seem to actually be having a good time with each other. And I think if this movie was actually an Ocean's Eleven style Han and Lando movie. And you could still throw in the political stuff. You could still have them meet Chewbacca and stuff like that. It would have been a lot more fun and, like, just. It would have given this poor actor who took a lot of shit, more support, like, definitely.

34:46
Randy
Oh, yeah, 1 million percent. You will not be shocked to know that Ocean's Eleven is featured prominently in my notes for this episode. But. But, yeah, Lando needs to flirt more. Like, you know, I mentioned it was partly out of spite that I had high hopes for this movie, but it was also, you know, back at this time, I was still really high and hopeful for the future of a little show called Westworld. And I was really pumped to see Tendiwe Newton in the cast. And we didn't get to see Lando try to put the moves on her once and get shut down even one time. I mean, come on. Yeah, it would be magical.

35:25
Case
Yeah. Like, just. What a waste of a character right there. Here's the question. Is anything with that crew, that first crew, is any of that not reshoots? Because I think it's all reshoots. I think it's all either shot in the five weeks of reshoots that they did afterwards or in the three weeks that Howard came in on and they restructured some of the stuff for the characters because they're not even referenced afterwards. There's one shot which is clearly an insert where Han goes, like, you cared about Val. And this gets into my whole, like, the relationship with Val and with. What is it? Rio? Like, doesn't seem to inform anything about Beckett. Like, Beckett's character traits are totally different than what he is presented as earlier in the movie. Because here's a.

36:11
Case
Here's the leader of a cool crew of thieves that are all, like, super close with each other and will die for each other. And also, he's like, don't trust anyone. Oh, and he's predictable in that he'll betray you. Like, that doesn't.

36:24
Sam
Right.

36:24
Case
Those don't jive. And so, like, the Val character kind of shoots the message of Solo in the foot.

36:34
Sam
Yeah.

36:35
Randy
Yeah. I would accuse them of fridging Val, except for the fact that her death doesn't seem to influence anyone in the plot. It's.

36:44
Sam
Right, it doesn't. It doesn't do anything to anyone. Like, it doesn't even. Like, it doesn't even change, like, Woody's character at all. Like, it doesn't even really. Like, he's, like, kind of sad. I don't even know if he's actually that sad, to be honest with you, like, I, I, yeah, I'm looking at.

37:05
Case
The character and, like, I didn't realize that Val was supposed to be his wife. I knew they were partners, but, like, it's listed as Val Beckett. And that's just like, that is not the response to a person who just lost his wife.

37:19
Sam
No, no, it's definitely not. Yeah, you might be onto something, Kace. That it was like, we need a little more, like, levity, so let's put this in.

37:32
Case
Yeah. I mean, especially with Jon Favreau being Rio's part and, like, his whole thing being like, I'm really starting to like this guy.

37:40
Sam
Yeah.

37:41
Case
Like, and his death, like, both deaths are so drawn out and so overly dramatic. And then somehow he gets the body to bury a Val, which is also just weird. Yeah. It's just there to be like, here's my first crew. And this is why I'm with these two fuck ups right here. We skipped over someone. We skipped over Emilia Clarke as Kira.

38:01
Sam
So I really like Emilia Clarke, just in general. I just want to say that before we start.

38:07
Case
Sure.

38:07
Sam
I'm not sure if Kira was necessary in this film. And she does some badass stuff and she wears some amazing outfits. I love all of her outfits. And I like her, like, in general, I like Emilia Clarke. I think that she's a good actress. I think she's very sweet. And I think her turn for, you know, doing the things that she had to do to protect the people that she loved or betray the people that she loved because she loved them was cool. But I'm not sure if she was, like, her character was necessary. I feel like she was placed in there just so Han would get smooched.

38:48
Case
I felt like they didn't know how to handle a character like that in a PG13 Star wars movie by Disney. Like, they kept on being like, the things I've done, you wouldn't like me anymore. And what they mean there is that she has been, like, forced into sexual situations with all these characters and probably they also mean murder. But, like, it certainly comes, like, off like a character who should be in the Wire, not a person who's in, like, this random Star wars movie.

39:15
Randy
Yeah. It's so tough because, you know, I'm a Game of Thrones fan. Love Emilia Clarke, and, you know, like, so far I haven't seen a bunch from her. That super worked for me. I always want to root for her character. I always want it to go well. But yeah, there Always seem to be some weird circumstances or a strange CGI arm in Secret Invasion or what have you. I will say, I do think I would keep the character in the film, if only to add some complexity to, like, the backstabbing and double crossing that we need to see Han dealing with. Did they execute that perfectly? I don't know. But. But I like that notion that these allegiances need to be questioned. Right. Like, this relationship he thought was untouchable is something he has to now question.

40:07
Randy
And it helps me see a guy who might be a bit more cold and detached when I meet him on Mos Eisley someday.

40:13
Case
Yeah, I didn't love that she was, like, the love of his life. It felt weird when they actually do come back together, where it's like, oh, that's a lot for how cool they both are with each other. Like, you know, I feel like they should have been in a relationship and it should have been more, like, fiery and passionate as opposed to, like, you know, this, like, deep romance kind of character relationship that they gave us.

40:39
Sam
Well, I guess they're just trying to. You know, I hear what you're saying, like, Romancing the Stone kind of like, you know, fiery, like, I hate you, but I love you, but I can't let go of you kind of thing. But I do kind of understand why they did that. I think it. Rather than playing, like, love of my life, he should have said something like my first love, so that it feels more innocent and not as permanent, I think, like, that. Like, just labeling her that way would have been good. Although I think some people would be like, first love. Oh. Cause Leia. Blah, blah. And I. You know, But I. But I do think that, like.

41:18
Randy
Mm.

41:19
Sam
Because we want him to believe in her, even though, like. Like, have faith in her no matter what she does or what she says or all the evidence to the contrary. I mean, she's working for a man with, like, scars down his face that look like it's been someone else's nails, right? Like a. Like a high criminal. We want him to love her enough, but he can be blinded by all of that. So I think that the reason why they have him say that is they feel like this is a boyish love. This is a love that you can be so blind to the obvious, glowing, maybe neon red flags of it all and still believe that you're still a team, that the two of you are still a team. I think where we fail is that we don't really get to.

42:18
Sam
I mean, other than the very end when she cuts down her boss. You don't really get to see how badass she really truly is. And I feel like if, like, listen, it's almost nice because they save it and it's a great, like, great cutscene. Like, it's a great choreographed fight and stuff like that. But I feel like if we cut out those first people and get to Lando and her quicker, we may have had more opportunities to see that she's really more than meets the eye. And it could behind Han's back so that he doesn't see all of those things and just the camera sees those things that she's setting those things. And she's a, you know, mastermind player. There's.

42:58
Sam
There's better ways to, like, structure her and write her, but as she stands right now, she's just there to, like, basically fool him and smooch him. And so, like, I. I would have, like, I. It's either write her better so that. You know what? I don't even know if you really have to say, because I feel like showing in movies is better than telling. Right. It's not a novel. So I don't know if you really need to say, like, the things that I've done or even have her repeat the things that she's done. But if you show her be merciless to someone behind his back, like, even in the bar, like, someone who was watching, maybe she just, like, slits their throat and walks away kind of thing. Then we know, like, oh, this is not just sweet. Right?

43:46
Sam
She's just not some sweet girl that he knows back from home. This is a person who's had to survive. This is a person, you know, And I think since we're fine in Disney with a little bit of violence, it would have been fine.

43:59
Case
Yeah, I could have actually used another fight scene with her. As it is, we have two, and the second one being with, you know, Paul Bettany's Dryden Voss, like, needed to. I needed to feel like she was actually going to stand a chance. And the. The one that she had was just like that quick takedown of that one guy. Especially if they're going to name drop Teras Kasai or Teras Kasi or whatever the, like, the Star wars martial art that they had from the. The PS1 fighting game. Yeah, I just would have liked a little bit more of that, and I think that would have contributed to what were saying about having her be a little more badass.

44:36
Case
Like, I like your idea of her, like, just offing a person who's like a spy or something that's like, you know, following them or something to that effect.

44:44
Sam
Yeah, I think we just needed a little more from that because if not, you know, there's just, you know, at the end of the day, she's there for the love storyline and she should be more than she is more than that. They just didn't write her as more than that. Again, polishing no angles.

45:05
Randy
Now, I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you folks inviting me on here. So I watched the deleted scenes. I don't usually put much stock into them, but I figured for a podcast, I guess it might not hurt. I think they were all good cuts. But the one thing I will mention is there was a cut scene from the very beginning of the movie when Han, you know, goes to seek Kira out and tell her, like, now's the time. And in this deleted scene, he kind of wakes her from her sleep and she wakes up and just instinctively puts a knife to his throat, nearly cuts his throat.

45:41
Case
Oh.

45:41
Randy
Before she realizes who has accosted her.

45:44
Case
Yeah, that would have been a good inclusion. Damn it.

45:47
Randy
Well, that was cool. Their. Their follow up conversation did not match tone wise. But the initial move was kind of cool to see that, like, she. She is also hardened on the streets. It's not just this hopeless romance.

45:58
Sam
Yeah, right?

46:01
Case
Speaking of hopeless romance, Phoebe Waller Bridge, as the voice of L337, can we just start off by noting that her name is Leet?

46:09
Sam
Yes.

46:12
Case
Yep. Like, again, a thing that works better in the comedic version of this movie than in the final project.

46:21
Sam
Right? I mean, like most droids, Leet was given the heavy lifting of trying to make jokes in this film. And tonally, didn't always work. Sometimes it did. I mean, I did chuckle. And again, I love a sassy droid, so I am always biased towards all droids. I'll be honest with you. Like, they get me every time they make a new droid for every single movie or every single project. And I love every single one of them. I'm going to be honest with you, I am a sucker for droids.

46:56
Case
Yeah.

46:56
Sam
So honestly, I just saw like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but I just saw like that, like, at the Disney parks, they made droids that like, walk around and like, talk to people. And I sent the TikTok to like 10 different people and it was like, I. I mean, like, I don't really want to go back to Disney, but also, I need to go see these droids. I need to go visit them. Sucker for droids. Go on case you're going to say something.

47:22
Case
I do actually rather like the design of L337. Like, I think that this sort of weird kit bashed out of an Astro mech into something different is an interesting way to get some of it is just, like, feminine features of, like, the hips and. And stuff by virtue of having, like, slightly different legs and slightly different arms. When she patches in. I'm going to use she on this one because it's a female droid. Like, when she, like, actually patches into a computer, like, the. The thing comes off her arm and then she, like, twists her arm around it to, like, be able to grab it with her hand was, like, a really cool moment there. Just in terms of, like, physical design for this character.

48:04
Case
Like, there's a lot of things that, like, if it was going to be, you know, assembly line produced, it wouldn't be this way. But for this weird thing that we are looking at, it's this way because it seems to be, like, a lot of aftermarket parts all stitched together. I thought that was really cool. I enjoy the twist that she has uploaded into the Millennium Falcon's computer. I actually like that as one of the reasons for why the Falcon's computer is hard to work with in later stuff. I think that's fun. It makes it a little bit weirder when it's like, oh, but the ship is destined to be with Han, not with Lando.

48:41
Sam
Right? I kind of, like, on this rewatch, I was just like, man, hansa jerk. Now, like, I mean, he was always kind of a jerk, but, like, he, like, literally went back to get this ship because he had. Right. Like, he has the thing he can sell to buy a ship, and he doesn't do that. He goes back and wins the Millennium. Fuck. Knowing Orlando's BFF is. Is in the. In. Yeah, you know, integral part of it. And that. That feels mean. That doesn't feel like friend stuff. Now I know why you were handed over to Vader. Justified.

49:26
Case
I will say that the. The character trait of being all about, like, freedom for the droids does feel like a reshoot thing as well. Specifically, it's brought up in a scene where Clint Howard is there, which means that, like, you know for a fact that's, like, part of a reshoot. And then she's so flippant when she's like, I don't know, like, go free everyone else and start a revolution or whatever. Now get out of my way. Seems to be A character who was not just supposed to be sassy and sarcastic and then accidentally stumbled into being a revolutionary, which makes the scene work as a comedy scene a lot better. Like, I finally found my calling. Only makes sense if it is, again, a comedy scene and also one where she wasn't trying to be a revolutionary beforehand.

50:04
Case
And it feels like the backfills sort of, again, like, polish off the rough edges of this. Like, that kind of a twist and that kind of humor works for the comedic movie that. That Lord and Miller were making. But then to make it more where no one has, like, real big arcs in this movie.

50:23
Sam
Yeah, yeah.

50:25
Randy
I noticed that dissonance as well, because I was like. I really like L3. It works for me. And, you know, for all the same droid love sort of reasons. But I did wish she was more consistently subtle. Like, she's not getting into a screaming match with Clint Howard so much as maybe she's outsmarting him. Maybe she's, you know, finding a way behind the scenes to liberate that one droid in the early scene. I love that take that. That could be evidence of the two different creators.

50:53
Case
Yeah. Or like, maybe like, a bender approach of being, like, no, I'm fine with humans, but at the same time, I wouldn't really be bothered if. If all of you were killed and if all of my droid friends were. Had the restraining bolts removed. Like, if. If they had a scene of her just, like, having sympathy for one particular droid and removing a restraining vault earlier in the movie. I mean, as opposed to it just being like, we have to burn down the system because she comes off as insane. Like, the movie paints her as. As crazy at those moments. But again, getting back to that whole theme about slavery, she is talking about sentient entities that have existed for hundreds, if not thousands of years as a servant class, despite the fact that they have effectively free will.

51:39
Sam
Yeah, it is very. It's such a weird thing, especially when you put it like that. Right. Like, it feels gross. I will say that I did love that she asked everyone to turn around because she couldn't perform while being one of my favorite things.

52:00
Case
Yeah. As a comedic relief character, which the droids often are. I think she works fine even in a more serious movie. But I. You can just picture the, like, the funnier version of this movie, the one that was, like, intended to be a little bit more screwball and, like, all of her stuff being, like, zany and. And, like, out there in a way that would have been, like, really, you know, Appealing.

52:21
Randy
Yeah. I also did not realize that it was actually Phoebe Waller Bridge, like, in the green suit, walking around. Like, she wasn't just doing the voice work, she was physically on set. And that. That. That gave me a new take on it as well. She was having fun anyway.

52:37
Case
Yeah.

52:37
Sam
Yeah. I mean, how great would it have been if, like. Like, because were talking about her taking a bolt off of, like, a robot or a droid earlier on. And, like, how great would have been, like, as they were walking in, like, Lando looks at her now, listen, do not free any of the droids. I don't know what you're talking about. Listen to me. We gotta get in, we gotta get out. Do not do that. Not now.

53:05
Randy
Yes.

53:05
Sam
Sit at the bar. I didn't do that at the bar. I know it was. You don't do it. And then she could, like, be, like, spoil sport or something like that. Or, you know, like. Or turn to Emilia Clark and said, do you feel that? Do you feel that sexual tension? Disgusting. Right? Like, just kind of, like, play on those words, like, because, like, you know, like. And it's just kind of like. That would have been better. Again, comedy. We are. I'm aiming for a comedy, clearly. But again.

53:34
Randy
Right.

53:35
Sam
She really. We want. We need her to really want beforehand to free droids and to kind of have a habit of, like, hacking into systems and making them. And this would all have been better if we had Lando and her sooner, because we would have had time for that.

53:56
Case
Yep. Moving on to. I'm going to butcher this name. Junis, Swatomo, Sumo, Chewbacca. I don't. I think Chewbacca is great in this movie as far as performances go. It's really hard to tell with, like, the amount of bodysuit that's going on with this character.

54:13
Sam
Yeah.

54:13
Case
This is not like a Planet of the Apes situation where, like, the actor's performance is really, like, leaking through the mask. Like, the mask is very much doing the work in this movie. And I'm sorry, that's just the truth. Like, you know, like, there's a lot of, like, good performance going on, but, like, I don't have a lot to say because it's like, the scenes are good with the character. That. That's what I care about.

54:34
Sam
Yeah. I mean, like, I agree. It's Chewbacca. You know, what are we going to say? He deserved a medal at the end of Hope, and he deserves a medal now. He was great. He was great. No notes.

54:46
Randy
Yeah. I watched a little promotional roundtable with Ron Howard and The actors. It was great that they let the Chewbacca actors sit at the table with everyone else and answer questions like he was part of the family. Probably the deleted scene that I liked most, which does nothing for the plot, was literally just after the failed train heist. Chewie, Han and Beckett have been walking for a while, and Han and Chewie just get into, like, a snowball fight, and they're, like, wrestling with each other. And it was kind of fun because in that moment, I could actually see some kind of, like, emotional relationship between the actors. It was probably a good cut, but that was the closest I came to feeling it was in a deleted scene. So I think I'm with you.

55:31
Case
Oh, nice. I. Yeah, yeah. Like, I. I do like setting up their relationship, and I think they do a good job of, like, Han and Chewie, like, coming off as friends in this and, like, more of that would always be appreciated. But, you know, I. I think. I think Chewbacca is fine. I think they did just fine with Chewbacca in this one.

55:48
Sam
He's.

55:49
Case
He's. He's a big man who looks like he is. Is able to be a. A fierce beast.

55:54
Sam
And he's engaged. He's engaged with Han, you know. Yeah, he's good.

55:59
Randy
I'm sorry to hit you with all this special feature stuff, but I just had to quickly throw in that Alden Ehrenreich said during his second audition, they were trying to pretend it wasn't for Star Wars. So they had him, like, audition with a dog puppet that was just barking. And then the actor kind of quipped that, you know, oh, they thought my performance could be replaced with a sound effect. Great.

56:25
Case
No, and also, like, feel free to, like, dump all the special featured load on us. Like, I wish I did not get a chance to, but I always prefer to have that level of research if I can. So Paul Bettany as Dryden Voss. We should note real quick that this is the big recasting in the movie. It was supposed to be Michael K. Williams initially, and that became otherwise because he couldn't come back for the five weeks of reshoots that were. That came about as a result of Ron Howard taking over as director, which means that you can tell when you see all the Dryden Voss stuff. He's always in the same clothes, and it's like, two sets that he's on. But that said, you know, I like Paul Bettany generally.

57:03
Case
Like, he does a pretty good job of being, like, this crime lord in it. The fight scene is fine. It's always weird in Star wars where it's like, yeah, let's use knives and stuff instead of just guns. But, like, the knives were cool looking and they were Darth Maul ish. So he's like a lieutenant to Darth Maul. Like, that was fine. I don't know. I mean, like, you can tell that he was like, part of the reshoots, like, is the only thing.

57:29
Randy
Oh, yeah. Seeing as you gave me the special features greenlight, I will just add that, I guess the original conception of the character was like a full CGI character with, like, fur and stuff like that. And I think at the end of the day for this tale of subterfuge and deception, I think I'm happier that it was, you know, Paul Bettany rather than a CGI character for my taste for what I would like to get out of this film. And then Ron Howard added all the facial scarring and the little subtle nod to the Darth Maul reveal later on. Basically, as he put it, Paul Bettany was too charming. He was afraid he was going to be too likable.

58:08
Case
Yeah. So fuck up his face and make him look like Jigsaw from fucking Punisher.

58:16
Sam
Yeah, the only way. Case is the only way.

58:19
Case
Yeah.

58:19
Randy
It was an 11th hour decision. Yeah, Yeah.

58:21
Case
I think that's all fine. He's fairly tall, so he's, like, towering over Emilia Clarke in their fight scene, which is why I kind of wanted her to have an extra scene of being a badass so that we're like, you know, so that we can sell it a little bit more, you know, not. Not because she can't be a badass in that scene. It's just that we haven't seen her be a badass enough to, you know. Yeah, you know, I hear you. You know, I. I think Star wars has to, like, walk this very narrow line in terms of, like, how much weird shit can we put in before the scenes start to break?

58:53
Case
Like, we know that, like, the Special Editions and, like, the prequels overloaded, like, too many weird characters in there and the scenes felt kind of, like, stilted because, like, so much of its green screen, so much of it isn't, like, actual human actors, like working with each other. I feel that Paul Bettany does his job pretty well and is a believable foe.

59:16
Sam
Yeah.

59:17
Case
So, yeah, on that note, we might as well just mention that Darth Maul makes his reappearance in movies in this movie. And it's a weird one that they do so they have Ray park play the part, but then he's voiced over by Sam Witwer, who did his voice in the animated stuff.

59:33
Sam
Yeah.

59:34
Case
And I think it works, like, mostly fine. Like, he's in a hologram anyway, so, like, you can forgive, like, any issues with, like, the lips, like, matching perfectly on, like, the. Oh, it's a hologram, whatever. Like, you know, there's a glitch effect going on. It's an interesting attempt at, like, merging these two roles. And, like, it's similar to in. In Obi Wan having the James Earl Jones voice filter going over Hayden Christensen's voice at some spots where, like, okay, well, we're kind of combining two performances in this one. Cool. It's interesting. I guess it was a good choice. Like, I don't know if I would have really noticed it. Like, I definitely didn't notice it when I was watching it, but I'm not as familiar with the animated material. And only looking at the note, I'm like, oh, well, that's. That's funky and different.

01:00:24
Case
That's all I have to say about it.

01:00:27
Sam
Yeah.

01:00:28
Randy
Yeah. It is a great animated performance, but I didn't realize that detail. And it makes the whole Easter egg feel kind of disingenuous, because at the end of that film, you know, it kind of feels like they're hinting a sequel. But if they were having, like, one actor with a different voice actor, it makes me question if they were ever seriously planning to pay that off in any way.

01:00:51
Case
I think they were sequel baiting, and then, you know, they'd figure it out as they go. And obviously, this movie didn't do well enough to, like, get a sequel. So, like, this is the one that kind of, like, derailed, like, side movies for Star wars as a result of just not being that exciting. Like, and I don't. You know, it just wasn't.

01:01:08
Randy
We were gonna get an Obi Wan and a Boba Fett movie. Right. And they became shows.

01:01:13
Case
Yeah, yeah. Which, you know, probably for the best. Although Obi Wan, I have said that if it was just shaved down a little bit, would have been, like, a really good movie or, you know, a slightly shorter miniseries for what they did. So I don't know, but it certainly that, like, showed them that they wanted to try something different, which was also just in time for the pandemic and, like, streaming TV shows, like, being kind of better suited for that format anyway.

01:01:37
Sam
Yeah, it's true.

01:01:39
Case
Yeah. Aaron Kellyman as Infys Nest I'm going to start off by saying That I did not realize that was the character's name. When I first saw the movie, I thought that was the group. And then finding out that it's like, oh, actually they're the Cloud Riders and that's the leader's infant's nest. I'm like, cool. I don't know. It's like one of those Star wars days that just doesn't sound like a real name. I found the reveal, and I use Reveal in quotes because it's set up as a reveal, but it's not a reveal of any, like, actual thing. It's just like, oh, it's a human girl who is like behind this part. I found that underwhelming and like, not a thing. Like it's, you know, it's. It's like.

01:02:20
Sam
So you say that because I actually really liked it. And I liked it because it was like, just because she's so young and it's the face of a child and it's a face of a people who've been kind of, you know, so, you know, kind of, you know, destroyed and used. And like, sometimes that means that your adult population is wiped out. And so that means that only the children are there. And so like, the fact that it was like. And also she's emblematic of a rebellion that is coming. And that rebellion is young. And I liked that it's female, especially because as a person who grew up on Star wars, let's be honest, it was very male heavy. And so it was nice to see a female person behind the mask be this like, infamous kind of, you know, kind of person.

01:03:14
Sam
And I just thought, oh, like when I was a little girl, I would have really liked that because for her outfits, really fucking cool. And can I just be clear, though?

01:03:23
Case
I don't. I'm not saying it was a problem that it was a female character, that it is still a per. Cuz she was like 18 when she shot this. Like, you know, it's not like we're talking about like a child in the role. She just had young features and. And just that it, you know, like, big deal in the sense that like, Star wars does allow for like, badass female characters in. In their world. So it wasn't like, I guess, like the spot where it's just like, oh, I guess we're going to rethink this whole organization because you have happened to be a young woman. That part just didn't quite make sense to me because it's not like, oh, we know you're good now as a Result of that. Like that. That's the spot. That was weird.

01:04:04
Case
But still, you know, like, the casting choice is fine.

01:04:07
Sam
Yeah, I thought it was. I thought their like, decision to pull back was just kind of like. Well, I. First of all, I do think that in general, if someone unmasks themselves and they ended up being someone with such childlike features, you would take a step back and be like, oh, shit, like, how. How old are you? So I don't think that's necessarily like an incorrect reading on like how you would react to that moment. And I thought it was more her explaining like why they were created that made them help. Like, I don't like. So for me it was a nice and powerful moment and it was kind of like, oh, like, yeah, it's just a girl. Like, that's fine. Like it, like, this is. This is so. I really actually, I really liked it. I know. Like, it's.

01:05:03
Sam
This is a big bad and it's chasing and stuff like that. But I think maybe because this movie is trying to do a lot of twists and turns and red herrings that sometimes work and sometimes don't because everything's kind of telegraphed. It was actually one of the few things that was a little bit surprising in this film. So maybe I also liked it because of that.

01:05:27
Randy
Yeah, if we had to have that faction in the film, I'm glad we put a human face on it. And it was this vehicle to introduce the spirit of rebellion and you know, like, you know, I even like that actress. And I think with more screen time there was more to do there. But I think my. One of my biggest things with this film, and I mentioned it earlier, is I just, I don't need Han dealing with the rebellion yet. I know that story is coming later in his life. So I think it wasn't that choice. It wasn't the actress. I think it was just an element of the movie that already in it was a new element in a movie that already felt overstuffed.

01:06:06
Sam
Yeah, right. It's too much. It is too much happening and they're not necessary. They're not. It's not necessary. The heist. The heist is done. Right? Like, it would have been better if like Beckett had just double crossed him to get away with, you know, all the stuff. Right? Or, or he had tried to double cross him to like go off to with Lando and like Lando and he, like they had talked about and they're like, we can't trust Beckett. We need to go by adding this other element, this like Final thing, you're having way too much time. Like, I. This movie is like two hours and, like, 17 minutes, like, including the, you know, freaking credits. And it just didn't really need to be.

01:06:54
Sam
I think if it was shorter, it would have been a better movie because it has fun elements in this film. It's just so heavy with too much.

01:07:08
Case
Stuff and no breathing room on this all. Like, it is too long. And like were saying, like, it goes from one thing to another very quickly. And oftentimes his action beats for the sake of action beats. Like when they're escaping the. Like the. When they're escaping the Kessel and they're doing the Kessel run. Like, the whole monster sequence. Like, none of that, you know, like, it didn't need to be as big and dramatic a thing. Or if it did, it should have been more a part of their actual getaway part of it. I don't know. It. Like, it just felt like we have to have, like, another new. Like, and then this thing happens. And then this thing happens, like, constantly in this movie so that we never have, like, the breather moments.

01:07:48
Case
And, like, we know that, you know, if it was a Lord and Miller movie, we would have those breather moments. Because you look at, like, Lego Movie or you look at the Spider Verse movies, like, they do have those moments for breathing in between the big action beats.

01:08:02
Sam
Yeah. And for that, we don't really. I think because of that, we're relying so heavily on lore and what we already know about the characters, and we're not really getting to know them as fully now, you know, like the. Like, you know, it's just like, I wish we had some more. Again, I keep saying it, but I wish I had some more, like, Lando Han interactions. I wish that. That we had built up, you know, like, you do have some with him and Kira, and that's. That's great because at least we get to know a little more about Han in those moments. But, like, I just wish there was time for more. More breathing room between the characters to give us a little more to actually also, you know, help the actor settle into this world that is like giant shoes.

01:08:56
Sam
Giant shoes that are very hard to fill, you know, and we didn't get to see that really.

01:09:02
Case
Yeah. I'm in danger of getting into my pitch territory by complaining about some of the things that I would see altered. And we're running on a. I don't want us to run longer than the movie. So why don't we actually take a pause here and come back and speculate on what could have been done to make this a stronger movie, because I feel like that sort of is going to encompass the rest of this conversation at this point.

01:09:26
Sam
Yeah, agreed.

01:09:31
Speaker 4
Have you ever sat on a long commute or a dull day in the office and let your mind wander back to the days of rectangle pizza bowls and bowls of sugar cereal and gushing over your favorite cartoons and movies in school and worry that those favorites from childhood won't hold up today? Well, the Saturday Morning Confidential Population podcast answers those questions for you. Host Maddie Limerick sits down with artists and creators of today to pull back the veil of nostalgia, to talk about what's great and what we would change in hindsight years later. So pull on your comfiest PJs, pour yourself a bowl of your favorite cereal, and take a deep dive into the files of Saturday Morning Confidential, releasing bi weekly on Saturdays, available on your favorite podcast platforms and at certain pov.

01:10:22
Case
And we're back. All right, Randy, so there's one hard rule about the following conversation that we have to abide by, and that is that Sam is not allowed to go before me.

01:10:39
Sam
Pardon me?

01:10:40
Case
After me. Sorry, my dad, man, dad brain died.

01:10:42
Sam
You're not allowed to go before me.

01:10:43
Case
I'm not allowed to go before Sam. Sorry, yes, let me rephrase that. So that I am not allowed to go before Sam. Now, as our guest, I am going to allow you to pick whether you go first or Sam goes first, but I just can't go first in this whole conversation. Now, we do also have a little bit of a soft ethos of this all, which is that we try to be realistic about the time of production. I need to, before we get into any further conversation, just say for the record, the Lord and Miller version of this movie I don't necessarily think would be automatically a better movie, even though the positive press that they, as a directing duo have gotten because of the Spider Verse movies makes it hard not to look at this and just be like, what? You're crazy.

01:11:29
Case
You got rid of the guys who did the Spider Verse movies. Those are so good. It's a natural impulse, but it is not productive for us to say, like, well, what if you just didn't fire them? Like, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes with the actual cast and crew and everything to that effect and what was actually coming out in terms of the decision to do that, like to mid production, fire them and then have Howard come in as opposed to see what they turned out and then have Howard do the reshoots and then ultimately do enough to, like, get the credit or something to that effect. Whatever.

01:12:03
Case
It's just weird, and it's a lot to speculate on, and I feel like it will end up being kind of an unproductive speculation just because we just don't know what that movie is. There are scenes that we can identify that feel like this is probably the original stuff, such as when Han takes the rock and does the kick sound with his mouth and then they call him out for it. That feels like a Lord Miller bit right there.

01:12:29
Randy
It's a fun one.

01:12:30
Case
It's hard to say for other things where it all happens and who, you know, who was doing what. Suffice it to say, Disney felt that a change had to be made. Kathleen Kennedy felt that a change had to be made. And, you know, despite how much people have liked to vilify her on the Internet, I think that she has overall stewarded the. The franchise very effectively and that they were up against a rock and a hard place. So, like, whatever kind of speculation we have, I. I don't think it's productive just to say, well, just don't fire Lord Miller. So we should be, like, discussing, like, well, what could have been done in terms of, like, what we actually saw. So, on that note, as our guest, would you like to go first? Would you like to have Sam go first?

01:13:07
Case
Or we can all just kind of, like, build it together if. Since mine is mostly like, man, that movie should have been shorter. And also, like, I think it should have leaned into the comedy a little bit more. But I don't have, like, really strong thoughts aside from, like, we'll make the Kessel Run more of Act 3 than what it actually is, and, you know, some. Some stuff there. And I'll. I'll go into it if we are doing individuals. But. But, yeah, how would you. How would you like to swing.

01:13:32
Randy
You know, hearing those rules? I think, if possible, I've spent so much time thinking and overthinking this, I think I wouldn't mind going first. I know that I've got some things in here that are going to resonate with both of you. I know I'm going to take one big swing that could go either way, but I think it's going to set up a good conversation, and I can't wait to hear what critiques you have.

01:13:59
Sam
Yeah, we're excited. Go for it.

01:14:01
Randy
All right, so here we go. I'm trying to stay within the spirit of the exercise. I'm more or less keeping the cast intact. We're going into production, and I'm even trying to keep some of the broader strokes of the original script in place. So we're going to open still on Corellia. And I do want to establish Han and Kira as having a meaningful relationship. Not that it has to be serious romantically, but that they are more equal partners in running these jobs. I was kind of taken in by the images of ships being built in the distance in Corellia. I'd love. I'd love to dig in a little bit more of that atmosphere. I feel like we could dig in a little bit of dialogue to show Han's skill and understanding of space craft and modification that could be worked into the job.

01:14:53
Randy
And I think that opening sequence plays out in a fairly similar fashion. There's this escape, there's the separation, there's this desire to get back. We certainly cut the name giving sequence. We don't need to learn that now. Here's where my film starts to take a different direction. I'm not gonna have. While I am gonna have Han enlist with the Empire, I'm not gonna throw him into, like, the World War I trenches in the mud. We're going to meet him on a job. I don't even care so much where the job is. But he is actually somewhat successful within the Empire. And he is working with Beckett, who is actually a corrupt Imperial officer. And they have been working jobs secretly on the side together, skimming money off of transactions. Val is sort of like the outside contact.

01:15:46
Randy
I don't care if Ryo is there or not. But we meet Han after the time jump. Already having this established team and rapport, we have a job that goes awry. Probably involves Chewbacca in some way. We get some kind of similar meet cute between Han and Chewie. And after this mission fails. Beckett and Han get dragged in front of some sort of, like, shadowy, you know, spy branch of the Empire. And they more or less get Dirty Dozen. They're being sent on a suicide mission. We need you to go undercover. You're going to expose Crimson dawn so that we can catch them, you know, stealing our fuel. We can make an example of them and these other crime syndicates. So they're going to go deep undercover. Their ties with the Empire are formally cut, and they meet up with Val on the outside.

01:16:46
Randy
Meanwhile, she's been doing a lot of work on the outside. She's good at her job. And amongst the work she's been doing is she has been vetting different contacts and people of different resources. And there is this potential ally Mark named Lando Calrissian. He's kind of a braggart. He's got this relationship where he really believes he's been charming Val, but really she's in control. She knows he has a ship and some other resources they could use. And at this point, we more or less go into, as I said, and you both said earlier, Ocean's 11 in space, this all becomes about the heist, planning the heist. We get reconnected with Kira, we've got similar allegiances and confusion fusion. Dryden Voss is still sending Kira along to keep tabs on this mission.

01:17:42
Randy
And we've got all these potential double crosses that have been established there in place. You know, as Sam mentioned earlier, we're going to get way more Lando. Way more Lando and Han. I like way more Lando and L3.

01:17:56
Case
I have a really good feeling about this.

01:17:58
Sam
I do.

01:17:59
Randy
Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's. He's going to be trying to flirt with Val. He's going to be trying to flirt with Kira. He's going to be trying to flirt with anyone else that we can get on the spacecraft, and they're going to have this time together. Now, this whole Kessel Mine situation, the spice mines of Kessel didn't fully work in the original film. There's a lot going on. The stakes are never super clear to me. So because we're giving it the Ocean's Eleven treatment, going to understand their security measures, we're going to understand what kind.

01:18:32
Case
Of diplomat, like, I. I was going to say, like, thank God. Like, that's, like, they don't have a plan when they roll in the actual movie. And, like, yeah, we need them to, like, lay out the plan and, like, give us a hologram of the Kessel mines and be like, here's all of our security. Like, Jesus Christ. That's exactly what this movie needs.

01:18:50
Randy
Yeah, absolutely. And including some preparation for the space travel portion where we can learn about, like, what this smuggler's run is, why the distance is 20 parsecs, why you have to avoid this maw, why it's dangerous, why you would never go that way, no matter what. But, you know, Val is still alive and has a role. Kira's alive. We know what kind of diplomat she is. L3 has a chance to plan an insurrection more thoughtfully. There's still room for humor in there. That's going to be part of the distraction and part of the plan. Plan, you know, so we get out of there yet we still have to do this 12 parsec Kessel Run.

01:19:27
Randy
So we're going to add a little heist movie twist where the reason they have to suddenly change the plan is because there's some kind of emergency security protocol they were not aware of. The coaxium is degrading faster than it's supposed to. This was not something they planned for, you know, using this new navigational system, because, you know, poor L3 still had to be destroyed and become one with the Falcon. But, yeah, they make the jump, and when we get there, we have a complex series of confrontations. We've removed this burgeoning rebellion from the film entirely. They are no longer players. Our team believes that they are setting up the Crimson dawn to get surrounded by Imperial forces at this drop. So they show off. They are cocky. They are confident.

01:20:18
Randy
They're surrounded by Crimson dawn, but they know the Empire is on their way, and this is all part of the plan. However, just when they're at their cockiest, Dryden reveals that they've got the intel. They know the Empire was on their way. They scrambled that communication. They're not coming. Han tries to make up a dumb lie, just like he did in the original movie. And Lando Foot fully bails on them with the Falcon. Just like in the original movie, they are on their own. We get the reveal that Kira is still valuing her allegiance to Crimson Dawn. Han is shocked. At this point, she mocks Han a little bit. She approaches him. She's kind of mocking his emotions, but she does take his hand, and she sends them, you know, out of the drop zone location with a small detachment of Crimson dawn enforcers.

01:21:18
Randy
They walk out. We are left in the room with Kira, and her expression shifts. All of a sudden, she's in charge. She lets Dryden know that, in fact, Imperial forces are on the way. In fact, they're probably already surrounded by these Imperial forces. And the reason why is that she was never working for Dryden. She was always working for his master. We get a play on a riff of the Duel of the Fates that kicks in, and we get a reveal of Darth Maul. He is there. They are ambushing the Imperials. We get a cool Darth Maul fight scene. Kira gets to do some more cool stuff that plays out. We go back to our crew, and it turns out what she handed to Han was the dice. We got that handoff.

01:22:19
Randy
In an earlier part in the movie, their detachment asks them to open the canisters of Coaxium. And sure enough, she's left a blaster there for Han. They use the distraction to defeat this detachment. Her allegiance is to Crimson dawn, but she still has a soft spot for Han. However, when the dust settles, Beckett and Val are pointing their guns at Han and Chewie. Beckett goes into a similar speech about trust. We see the blaster bolt hit his chest, but it's actually Val, because Beckett was going to sell them back out to the Imperials for a sweet deal, and she never wanted to do that. He's gone the wrong way, and she's going to walk away with all of the coaxium.

01:23:13
Randy
She leaves Han with one little vial, and the only reason she's leaving him alive is she doesn't want to piss off Han's girlfriend or have any sort of trouble with Crimson Dawn. So she takes off. She's a possible contact or ally or enemy for a future movie. Kira's out there. Maul is out there. Han still hasn't seen Darth Maul, mind you, and we've got the makings of a potential sequel. So there you have it, folks.

01:23:42
Case
All right. I like this a lot. The one thing I would throw in there is if there was something of a departed kind of element of if the Empire, like, if. Because like, the whales of the Crimson dawn are probably working with the Empire well enough. Like they, like, most likely if the Empire is trying to investigate them, they're just looking for like, some sacrificial lamb so that everyone can kind of go back to business without necessarily, like, needing to be too stressed about the whole matter. And so like, there could be this like, back and forth play where like, Dryden Voss thinks that he is setting up Kira to be the person who is the sacrificial lamb. Kira is actually setting up Dryden Voss to be the sacrificial lamb.

01:24:23
Sam
Right?

01:24:24
Case
That part right there, that can sort of like, facilitate sort of the infighting of the Crimson Dawn.

01:24:30
Sam
Yeah, that'd be nice. But just that element, double crumble crossing.

01:24:34
Case
Because they're bribing the Empire is going to look the other way for like, the big organizations, right? Like, that's one of the biggest things like Shadows of the Empire at. At Caesor as. As sort of like the third most powerful person in the Empire because of crime. So, you know, like, they're. They're corrupt. They're going to allow, like, wealthy criminals to continue to operate as long as they are getting a cut of the action. And that they, you know, can, you know, like I said, like, have a person that to show, like, oh, yeah, no, we're. We're cracking down on crime. The empire, like, everything's safe under the Empire. Look at all the good things that we're doing. The. But the big bus that we're making. Because they're fucking cops. Lefty moment there. Anyway, so. So. But that's it. I love this idea.

01:25:20
Case
I think this works really well in terms of addressing all of our concerns about, like, the. The pacing of it all. Like, the having certain characters, like, you know, only around for certain parts of the movie and then, you know, completely disappearing and not getting enough Lando in the whole sequence.

01:25:36
Sam
Yeah. I also going back to, like, one of the things you said in the beginning where you said that, like, Kira and Han's relationship, you know, it's close. Not necessarily like friends. Like, what if they're each other's bound family? What if we just, like, you know, then we don't have to spend time, like, I know the studio wants to make him a ladies man. He's, you know, romantic lead in the future. What if this is, like, his, like, adoptive sister on the street? Like, they were two street kids that found each other, that survived every day because of each other. This isn't a romantic thing. This is family. And I feel like when you run into family, that's even deeper because you want to believe that family is not going to betray you.

01:26:18
Sam
And that would make it even more important to her to protect Han. Even if. Even with the limitations that she has with the new allegiances that she has. Because you're not going to, you know. You know, you may fight with your siblings, you may. You may even think that they're dumbasses, but you're going to do things to minimize the pain in their lives. So if we even set that up in the first, you know, moment, kind of showing their home life and that kind of thing, maybe, like, again, we're going to keep it short, but maybe we even have a short shot of them as actual kids running through the street. You know, like. Like showing pickpocking things, right? And like, Han making up lies to kind of COVID for her and being like, you got to be faster about this.

01:27:09
Sam
You're gonna get us killed. You know, stuff like that. Well, I got us food. All right? And kind of like set it up so that it's just like, you know, and then you show them. You show Hannah running back with. Right? So it's like the opposite. Like, she. She did the ceiling the first time, and now he's running back with some score that's gonna get them off this planet. You know, we're gonna be a better family. We're gonna have a better life. We're gonna have stuff. You know, I think that would be actually cuter because, you know, we don't have to also think about and I think having him saying love of life. Right. Like, the love of my life.

01:27:50
Randy
Yeah.

01:27:50
Sam
I think for us as viewers, like, we already know who he ends up with. Right. So, like, it's just like, it feels disingenuous. Like, even though it's fine, Han can date other girls, like, he's right. But, like, we know, right? Like, there's, like, this romance looming in the back of our mind because we know his future. And so I think, like, that's why it kind of rings as convenient. And remember thinking, like, oh, this. Oh, he's having a romance. Because Han has to have a romance because he's Han Solo. And da, da, da. Like, honestly, like, Han Solo isn't really a ladies. Like, Harrison Ford is very handsome as Han Solo, but Han Solo is a really grumpy, like, single person who lives with just his furry friend.

01:28:39
Case
Yeah.

01:28:40
Sam
Lando is the lady of Chewbacca. Right. Right. So we don't really need to see him be a ladies man in this movie. And actually, that would be great because in if there were to be a sequel and he and Lando were to be hanging out, that could be something Lando makes fun of him for, you know, like, kind of, like sputtering and not really being able to talk to women. And you always say the wrong thing, and that would be fun. And, you know, I think that in some of the things that they're trying to do to fill out, you know, it just didn't stay true. So I think. Yes. I love everything that you said about your pitch. And I would just make it so that they. I would. I would establish that they really have more of a sibling relationship. A family.

01:29:27
Sam
Found family, which is very strong, you know?

01:29:30
Case
Yeah.

01:29:30
Randy
I love that riffraff street rat vibe. Yeah.

01:29:36
Sam
And then it'd be fun because he's basically been having heist with someone since he was born. Right.

01:29:43
Case
Like, yeah. Sam, do you have anything else you want to, like, throw out there as ideas, or do you just want to build?

01:29:50
Sam
You know, honestly, I really like everything you said, especially because we're oceans elevening it, and that's honestly what I wanted. The only thing I will add is if Disney needed a name origin, then my sibling thing would be fine because they could come up with it together and that then that's why the name is so important to him, because it's from his found family. They made up the name together as kids. If we really fucking need that, which we don't. But if we did, it could be like them just coming up with something. The two of them.

01:30:29
Randy
Yeah.

01:30:30
Case
Anything different than what we got?

01:30:32
Sam
Yeah, for sure.

01:30:34
Case
Like, it's the same. It's the same fucking scene as in Rise of Skywalker where it's like, Rey what? Rey Skywalker. Like, like, yeah, this world. Like Chewbacca doesn't have a last name. Like, people are just fine with Chewbacca.

01:30:48
Randy
Yeah.

01:30:48
Case
Like, it's a world of aliens and weirdness. Like, it's not that weird that you could just have one name for sure.

01:30:54
Sam
But if they create the name to tie the two of them together.

01:30:58
Case
Yeah, that makes more sense.

01:30:59
Sam
Because they were alone, then that is sweeter and kinder. And the reason why it would be important to him to be Han Solo, because it connects him to Kira Solo. Her name would of course have to change.

01:31:11
Randy
Yeah, yeah.

01:31:13
Case
No, Randy, I really like your pitch here. And the thing I would like to sort of expand on is the ocean 11 thing in there because I think that allows for the humor of the droid uprising to like, really come out a bit more. It makes me think of in Ocean 13 where there's like the uprising at like, the dice factory in, like, Mexico. Like you could do, you know, kind of a similar, like, smash cut to like the droids uprising part going on. Cut back to like a different part of the heist and like, and where the chaos, like, really throws things off. Like in the movie that we got, they don't have a real plan. They just arrive. They. They almost shoot their way in, which is like, how does that even work? Shouldn't they be good at this kind of stuff?

01:31:54
Case
Like the. If the minds of Kessel are like, constant, like one, under. Under surveillance by like a super powerful crime syndicate and two, an obvious target for these kind of raids, shouldn't they be really prepared for this kind of stuff? Shouldn't we need a lot of plan for them to even get in the front door?

01:32:12
Sam
Yeah, for sure.

01:32:13
Case
And I think really like, leaning into like, you know, laying that whole thing out. It's like, it's like Ron Howard as the replacement director wasn't the right choice. They should have gotten Steven Soderbergh. Not that Ron Howard couldn't do it, but just the. They, they. They did not shoot for the heist movie that they really should have. And it sort of feels like, this is like, two years before the whole, like, Netflix, like, you son of a bitch, I'm in. Like, everyone's doing a heist movie kind of thing, but. But, yeah, I really, like. I really like this pitch here. And I think that, I mean, it's obvious that Solo had, like, fine bones, that it just needed, like, better ligaments and muscles to really stand on its own.

01:32:58
Sam
Yeah, I mean, that's why it's a fine movie. We none of us had a hard time re. Watching. It wasn't like, a chore to do. It just wasn't.

01:33:06
Case
It was a little long. I did have to split it up into two sections, but that is because my wife was out of town this week and I had the baby to myself. So, yeah, my free time was at a premium.

01:33:19
Sam
But aside from baby chaos does raise.

01:33:22
Randy
My wife went to. My wife went to bed halfway through.

01:33:28
Case
But again, like, you know, perfectly fine cast. Like, some really good moments in there. There's. There's some real cool looks. I love Corellia. I love seeing Corellia. Like, that's so cool. You know, I like your thought about, like, having more of the shots of them, like, actually building the ships. You know, like, it would have been nice to, like, you know, the whole thing about, like, Han's dad working on, like, Corellian Corvettes and stuff like that. Like, you know, show a little bit more of that. Like, have, you know, spend some time on that detail so that you, like, feel for the character and, like, history.

01:33:58
Sam
Yeah.

01:33:59
Case
But, you know, aside from that, like, you know, actors are fine in the movie itself is, like. Is fine. But I'm. It made them reevaluate what they were doing, and I'm fine with what they're doing now. Instead, like, it's, you know, in the alternate reality where this was a hit and we got the. The Boba Fett and the Obi Wan movies, I'm sure they would have been fine. You know, it's hard to really say.

01:34:23
Randy
Yeah, I was going to say. And then Andor you know, gave me that prison break that I really wanted. That's.

01:34:29
Case
Yeah. See, so even if this movie closed a few doors, it opened new ones for four down the line.

01:34:37
Randy
Precise.

01:34:37
Case
But as it was. It. It's okay. It. You know, I'm not. You know, the ethos of the show is that we're never, like, trying to, like, just, like, shit on a movie for the sake of it. And, like, this one, I think, was good for us to discuss because it's a movie that has like a very complicated production history. It. They just didn't stick the landing. And so that's why this isn't something like a fifth episode where we're talking about this as like a reason for why this was great. It's a reason for why it was flawed. And like, it makes it difficult to like, speculate on, like, what could have been done better. Too much.

01:35:08
Case
Because, you know, like I said, we can't just say like, well, if the original director stayed on board, it would have been a better movie because there was something wrong with it. And the big hits that Lord Miller have had have been animated. So, you know, sometimes that just doesn't translate. I'm just going to say that part. But, Randy, thank you for bringing this movie and thank you for joining us today. Where can people find you and follow you and what have you got going on?

01:35:32
Randy
Yeah, well, first and foremost, thanks to both of you for having me on. The concept of this show is just such a blast. It's exactly the kind of conversation I love to have with people and it was a treat for me. As I mentioned earlier, if you're looking for me on social media, I do use Twitter. You can find me at mrelaine. I've got links to all my stuff there. You can find my podcast media lit on all different podcast programs. Apparently I'm struggling to find my words there.

01:36:07
Case
Wherever you find your podcasts.

01:36:09
Sam
Yeah, wherever you find.

01:36:11
Randy
Thank you. Yes, find Medialit. Wherever you find your podcast. Thank you. I also do a ton of work over at a website called the Pop Break. I do some entertainment writing for them on their website and they also have a whole family of podcasts. I do a show called every pod you cast where we're doing a deep dive into the discography of the police and also fans of your show might enjoy. Last month I appeared on the flagship podcast of the Pop Break. It's called Socially distanced. This was for their 200th episode and the podcast director over there, Alex Marcus, put together this wild eight person Avengers draft where we each fantasy drafted an Avengers team from characters who are still currently active in the mcu. It was a wild. It was a wild ride.

01:37:04
Randy
Like someone actually drafted the potential potato gun kid from Iron Man 3 because went that deep into these surviving characters. So it was a wild ride and it was truly a ton of fun. The last thing I just want to say, I shouted out Alex Marcus before he gave me a great joke for this podcast that I wish I'd come up with. He said in my pitch I should have said that Han left Corellia with Beckett and now his name is Han +1, so I just had to shout him out. Thank you so much for letting me share all this.

01:37:39
Case
I love math jokes. Awesome. Yeah, everyone should check out all that. We'll have links in our description as we always do for our guests. So thank you again for coming on and everyone should find you on the SOC and follow all your shows. Sam, on that note, what have you got going on and where can people find you and follow you?

01:38:01
Sam
They can find me here every time we drop one. And also occasionally I'll remember our Discord exists. Not often, we'll be honest with y'all. Other than that, if you have any complaints about what I said tonight, although I don't know why you would because tonight was a rare opportunity where I did not say anything that anyone would complain about as far as I know. But if you have any complaints, you can find case, you can find me.

01:38:28
Case
On all the ACE platforms. As for Instagram, where I'm holding on to my AIM screen name for dear life. So there I'm Quetzalcoatl5 because I was pretentious in high school as much as I am now. On that note, you can find us on the Discord. And Sam, it's a shame that you are not more active on the Discord because the conversations have been going really well over there. We have had a recent shot in the arm of a whole bunch of new people joining and conversations have just been really wild and fun. So you can find that at our website certain pov.com you can find links to our Discord. You can find links to all of the places where you can find this show.

01:39:03
Case
You can find tons of other great shows on our network like I'm going to give a Shout out to Reignite. They have been doing a book club style approach to various Bioware games starting off with the Mass Effect trilogy and they are just finishing up Dragon Age Origins right now. So check that out. It's a really fun introspective discussion of this role playing game series and they are about to move on to the next Dragon Age game. So it is a good time to hop on and see what Matt and Frankie have to say about the experience of being the Warden. So check that show out. It's a ton of fun. I do the episode art for each episode and then come back here and find out what we've got going on our next episode. Sam, what have we got coming up next time?

01:39:49
Sam
Next time we'll be talking about Highlander 2 the Quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.

01:39:58
Case
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of.

01:39:59
Randy
View's Another Pass podcast. Don't miss an episode, just subscribe and.

01:40:05
Case
Review the show on itunes. Just go to certain pov.com nether pass.

01:40:11
Sam
Is a certain POV production. Our hosts are Sam Alicea and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Sophia Ricciardi. Our logo and episode art is by Case Adrian, our intro theme is by Vin Macri, and our outro theme is By Matt Brogan.

01:40:27
Case
CPOV certainpov.com.