It’s time to look at what just might be technically the current origin of Superman, Geoff Johns and Gary Frank’s Secret Origin miniseries! Alex McConnell joins Case and Jmike to look at this retro reboot of the Man of Tomorrow’s earliest adventures!

Find Alex: admcconnell.com

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Overview

In the latest episode of the podcast, the hosts delve into the intricate world of Superman through a detailed discussion of the "Secret Origins" comic, featuring a guest expert, Alex McConnell. They explore the nuances of Superman's character evolution, particularly how Geoff Johns tends to revert heroes to their classic Silver and Bronze Age personas, and they critically examine Gary Frank’s artistic style. The hosts debate various iterations of Superman's origin stories, alongside the significance of his relationships with characters like Lana Lang and Lois Lane. They also analyze the portrayals of villains such as Lex Luthor and Metallo, emphasizing the impact of Metropolis' development and the role of media as embodied by the Daily Planet. Additionally, they touch upon themes of continuity, the shifting canon within DC Comics, and the story's broader cultural implications, including discussions on media ethics and public perception. Ultimately, the episode offers profound insights into the entwined relationships and symbolism within Superman's narrative and its portrayal of superhero culture.

Notes

Superman Origins Discussion (00:00 - 10:25)

• Discussing Superman's Secret Origins comic

• Geoff Johns' tendency to revert characters to Silver/Bronze Age versions

• Comparison of Gary Frank's art style over time

• Introduction of guest Alex McConnell

Comic Book History and Context (10:25 - 22:50)

• Discussion of Legion of Superheroes storylines and continuity

• Comparison of different Superman origin stories

• Debate on bringing back classic elements vs. new interpretations

• Analysis of post-crisis Superman and its impact

Art and Character Design (22:50 - 33:25)

• Critique of Gary Frank's art style in Secret Origins

• Discussion of Clark Kent's personality and relationships

• Analysis of Lex Luthor's character development

• Comparison to other Superman media adaptations

‍♀️ Character Relationships and Development (33:25 - 43:29)

• Exploration of Clark's relationships with Lana Lang and Lois Lane

• Discussion of Superman's powers and their manifestation

• Analysis of the Kent family dynamics

• Debate on the portrayal of Metropolis and its citizens

Villains and Supporting Characters (43:29 - 53:25)

• Introduction and analysis of Rudy Jones/Parasite

• Discussion of John Corbin/Metallo's origin

• Exploration of Lex Luthor's role in Metropolis

• Analysis of military and government involvement in the story

Metropolis and World-Building (53:25 - 01:05:00)

• Discussion of Metropolis' portrayal before and after Superman's arrival

• Analysis of Lex Luthor's influence on the city

• Exploration of the Daily Planet's role in the story

• Debate on the military's portrayal and xenophobia themes

Action Sequences and Power Usage (01:05:00 - 01:15:07)

• Analysis of Superman's fight with Metallo

• Discussion of creative power usage in combat

• Exploration of kryptonite's effects and portrayal

• Debate on the pacing and timeline of events in the story

Media and Public Perception (01:15:07 - 01:24:21)

• Discussion of the Daily Planet's role in shaping public opinion

• Analysis of Lois Lane's character and journalism style

• Exploration of Superman's impact on Metropolis culture

• Debate on the story's portrayal of media ethics and responsibility

Continuity and Canon Discussion (01:24:21 - 01:33:16)

• Analysis of Secret Origins' place in Superman canon

• Discussion of DC Comics' reboots and timeline changes

• Comparison to other Superman origin stories and adaptations

• Final thoughts on the comic's strengths and weaknesses

Transcription

00:00
Case
But I like when she tries to get away, it creates the situation that is just from fucking Superman 78, where the helicopter is falling and, like, Superman catches her and then catches the helicopter.

00:09
Jmike
What you mean? Not only does he look just like Christopher Reeve, he also reenact the same scene from Superman 72 uncomfortably so.

00:17
Case
Yes.

00:18
Alex
Yes. Yeah, that is definitely anytime that happens in secret origins, I'm like, wow, it's from the movie.

00:26
Jmike
From the movie.

00:29
Alex
I know what that is. Maze. Come on, man.

00:43
Case
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Men of Steel podcast. I'm case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, J. Mike Folson.

00:50
Jmike
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast.

00:53
Case
Yeah, welcome back. As we're going down a little bit of a. Well, I was about to say history or, like memory Lane, but this is actually not a book that I've read before this pod. But it felt very familiar because today we are looking at yet another Superman origin story, in this case, one that tried to take the silver age elements of the character and infuse them in a more modern time around the period of infinite crisis and all that. Because. That's right, guys. Today we are talking about Superman's secret origins. And to have that conversation, we are joined by Alex McConnell.

01:29
Alex
Hello there, all you superfans out there.

01:34
Case
Alex, so glad to have you on the pod. After our mutual friend Jalachan introduced the two of us over on her discord server.

01:43
Alex
Yeah, I was caught committing Superman rant in public, and as a result, that had the happy accident of me being invited to this lovely podcast, which I happened to be a listener for. So I was like, oh, wow. Okay. Yeah.

02:03
Case
Oh, wait. Already? You were or after?

02:06
Alex
Yes, I had already been listening to you guys prior to this.

02:10
Case
That's dope. That's so cool. I did not realize that.

02:13
Alex
Yeah, I did not know that you guys were in that discord at all. And I was like. I was kind of like, ugh. I didn't know that I was doing Superman rants in front of these guys.

02:32
Case
Yeah, well, I mean, I think this is after Jala had been on our show at that point. I mean, obviously it was after we had recorded, but I think it was after the episode that she was on talking about Hitman. And what if no one had listened to that episode or don't know what I'm talking about and I just said Hitman and we just moved on? No, like the hitman issue where, like, of the I sing, where Superman had, like, confesses, like, his, like, feelings of failure after not saving one person in a giant accident where he saved everyone else. That. That issue that people really like from that. That run. Anyway, so. Yeah, so we got to talking, and were trying to figure out, like, what book to look at.

03:11
Case
And, you know, we've covered a lot of, like, the greatest hits on the show, and you brought up one that I honestly hadn't even read. And I find that fascinating because I. This. I, on paper, was like, yeah, I'm. I'm pro what Geoff Johns is doing over on the Superman book. You know, he brought in Richard Donner. They, like, did all this stuff. Like, they, you know, he was trying to do some. Some fun things, but for whatever reason, I kind of checked out, and I think I know why. I'm not trying to be mean. It's the Carrie Frank art, right?

03:44
Alex
Yeah, it is.

03:47
Jmike
What do you mean, Case?

03:51
Case
So, like, my take on the Gary Frank art is that Gary Frank is an artist that I really liked at the beginning of his career. I think he did some amazing stuff. His incredible Hulk run looks so goddamn good, and I really enjoyed the Supergirl run that he did with Peter David, which also incredible Hulk. But anyway, like, I think that he has a really good foundation of, like, how to draw figures. He does really good texture and so forth. But you know what come around, like, supreme power. And, like, you start to see him, like, leaning into some worse trends in terms of, like, over detail on the characters when I think he actually plays to the strongest when he's being a little bit more abstract.

04:32
Case
And then I also read some of his stuff when he was, like, doing the redesigns of the squad and supreme characters, where he, like, framed them. Like, the classic looks as being, like, outdated and whatnot. And I took a little bit offense to that, where I'm like, no, these are classic marvel characters. They go back to the sixties, and they are supposed to be spoofs of, like, DC characters. Like, you know, it's like you're not having fun if you're, like, you know, riffing on their costumes and, like, how bad they are. Like, that's not. Like, that's not helpful.

05:02
Case
So by the time we get to, like, his run on Superman, like, I think that he just generally, like, started infusing too much detail into his work, and it did it, like, to the point where, like, some of the looks just are kind of grotesque. Like, when Lex Luthor smiles at one point, like, I'm just like, ugh. In a way that's not good. Like, it's not like. Like, I just don't find it personally. Personally aesthetically pleasing.

05:24
Alex
Yeah.

05:25
Case
And that is it. Like, I'm not saying that he's a bad artist. I'm just saying that he's actually, like, putting too much work into some of the stuff. And it's the kind of too much work that, like, the colorists are of clearly trying to keep up with. And, like, it honestly needs to be like, an Alex Ross, like, painted look for everything just to, you know, to bring it all together. But as it is, it. It kind of pushed me away. And also, I was a little wary of, like, bringing in too much silver age into the post crisis Superman at the time. You know, I, like, I grew up on the post crisis Superman. Like, I had gotten used to the idea of, like, okay, we had the pocket universe, superboy.

06:03
Alex
Right?

06:03
Case
But, you know, he was never actually Superboy. And, like, you know, like, the legion of superheroes that we knew was the post crisis. Not even the post crisis. It was the reboot era legion of superheroes. Like, the post zero hour team is the one that I knew. So there were things about this book that you can understand why I was trepidatious about it, and then it just kind of hit also at a time where I was kind of broke and not buying books that I wasn't automatically sold on.

06:32
Alex
Well, it's kind of Geoff John's move, isn't it? Depending on the what run he's on. It's like, he's on flash. He brings back Barry Allen. He's on Green Lantern, he brings back Al Jordan. Like, he. His. His revert to the mean seems to be silver age like.

06:48
Case
Yeah, or Bronze Age like. And that. That is a Geoff John's problem that I have with a bunch of his work. Like, before were recording, I was saying, like, teen titans is one that I like. He resets cyborg to the Bronze Age cyborg without ever really acknowledging, like, the whole, like, he was, like, a fully techno organic being for a while there.

07:07
Alex
Yeah.

07:08
Case
Which, you know, some people, that's like, that's their status quo. But for me, I grew up, like, the generation passed. So, like, Kyle Raynor was my Green Lantern, so resetting it to hell felt, you know, annoying. Wally west was my flash. Like, it's just, it was one where when were synced up, like, his JSA stuff, generally speaking, I was synced up with him completely. Like, bringing on black. Like, the whole redemption of Black Adam arc, he did. I mean, alongside, like, what Gary Ordway did that it was added to in JSA and having Captain Marvel actually joined the JSA, I was like, this is perfect. This is what I've always wanted. He should be with them. That makes the most sense. So those areas where I'm like, I really dig Geoff Johns.

07:47
Case
And I liked up, in a way, the book that he launched with Kirk music right after Infinite Crisis for Superman. I thought that was a really fun book. And the idea of bringing in Richard Donner is interesting, for whatever reason. It just. This seemed like more of the type of Geoff Johns that I wasn't as much here for. And it's a bummer, and it's bummer that, in retrospect, that I felt that way, because I actually ended up really liking this book, even though there are. I know why I avoided it.

08:16
Alex
Yeah. Yeah.

08:18
Case
And some of, you know, some of that is also growth for me as a Superman fan.

08:22
Alex
Sure.

08:22
Case
Sorry, Alex, I cut you off.

08:24
Alex
Oh, no, that's okay. Yeah, no, I was. I was just going to say there are a few very specific things about this book that I think are extremely brilliant ideas. Some of them have to do with Lex Luthor, and we'll get to that when we get there in the plot synopsis, I'm sure. But some of how he presents Lex in this story I find extremely fascinating and weirdly prescient of certain historical figures that existed and are very prominent today. There's a lot of that, though, with Lex Luthor. I mean, like, you know, eighties Lex is pretty clearly trump down to his, like, the Lex Luthor origin book, having that cover that is, like, the original art of the deal cover, but it has Luther on it instead, so.

09:12
Case
Well, and then Luther Junior, his clone that he transferred his brain into with Richard Branson. Like, big fucking head of hair. Australian for some goddamn reason.

09:25
Alex
Weirdly, when I was a kid, that was the era that I first jumped into Superman comics, and I was just like, what is going on? Like, Lex Luthor has this long red hair. He's, like, making out with Supergirl. What is happening? Like, yeah, I was so confused as a kid. What a weird place to come into comic books.

09:44
Case
Yeah, what a weird status quo for Lex Luthor during arguably the biggest event for people hopping onto superman books, which was the death and return of Superman.

09:54
Alex
Yeah, true.

09:55
Case
Where it's just like, yeah, no, don't worry about this whole, like, he's a clone, but he has the brain of the original, and he's now hooking up with the Supergirl. And it's not the supergirl who you think it is.

10:08
Alex
Spoilers yeah. I didn't even get to the point of realizing that it wasn't the Supergirl that I thought it was. I was just like, lex Luthor's making out with Supergirl. What, is she bad? What happened? I'm not. Yeah, good times. We used to just dive right in, kids. Like, there was no, like, you know, going back and figuring it out. You just like, we're like, all right, I guess I'll figure it out eventually. And kept reading comic books until it made sense. Or you got bored.

10:36
Case
Yeah. In that regard, I kind of miss that aspect of comics because it made it like a puzzle where you'd be like, okay, so I know that by the middle of this year, roughly, this was the status quo, but what the hell was going on two months prior to that?

10:50
Alex
Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of comic runs where I'm just like, I can, like, with encyclopedic knowledge, tell you what was going on. And then they're like, well, but why was it like that? And I'm like, I don't know. I didn't read that. You know, like, yeah, that was before me. I can't tell you. You'd have to ask a different nerd.

11:13
Case
No, speaking of that, I'm currently going through that process right now because I. So I am reading the five year later timeline for Legion of superhero stuff. I'm halfway through the second omnibus, which is. They're fucking huge.

11:28
Alex
Yeah.

11:29
Case
And I am finally digging into the Legionnaires book. The whole run of. I'm especially digging into the legion of superheroes when they're like, rebels era, which I never knew about, but explains so much, like, promotional artwork from, like, zero hour time, where I'm like, who the fuck is that character? Oh, that's ultra boy. What amazing stuff in that regard. But for whatever reason, my dentist, when I was in, like, junior high, had just a shitload of valor and Legionnaire books, like, in his, like, waiting room for kids. And so I had read all these random ass issues of all the stuff that was pre crisis legionnaires, which is, for anyone not aware, legionnaires.

12:14
Case
The pre crisis Legionnaires, or, pardon me, post crisis, pre zero hour Legionnaires book was the spin off book of legions and superheroes featuring what were called the SW six Legion, which were teenage versions of the Legion of superheroes, kind of sort of clones, also kind of sort of cut out from time that were plucked from a point in history and then awakened in this grim, dystopic, five years later world of the legion of superheroes. And then all of a sudden, there's just these teenage versions of the legion. And to distinguish them from the main team, they took on new code names with new costumes. And these costumes became the base design for everything. Like the post crisis, the reboot era of Legion of superheroes, which was goddamn confusing for someone who, like, was reading books.

13:05
Case
Like, from both periods, they had all new code names except for where they didn't, because a few of them just didn't. For some reason, some of them made sense. Like, Pharaoh didn't need to have a new code name because, you know, he was dead.

13:18
Jmike
He's dead. Right, right.

13:20
Case
Exactly. But that was one of the key details there. But for a minute there, they had two valors, which was Mon El, for the record, and two Laurel gans, which was a basically supergirl, a teenage and an adult version, like, just running around in the Legion universe, which is wild to think about from a power scale. Oh, and two ultra boys.

13:38
Alex
Man, it's. It's almost as confusing as X Men.

13:41
Case
Yeah, well, so I'm finally getting to some of those issues, and I'm like, oh, that's what the hell was going on in that issue. Like, there were legit issues that I was, like, never clear if it was pre crisis or pre zero hour or post zero hour. And now it's like, oh, okay, now I see what's going on. Like, because, like, I knew the issue really well, but I had none of the context.

14:01
Alex
Yeah, yeah. It is always gratifying when you finally cross that threshold to the edge of stuff that you remember from before, and you're like, oh, this is how it all connects. That's amazing.

14:17
Case
Yeah. You feel like you can see the matrix for a moment there.

14:19
Alex
Yeah, yeah. For sure.

14:21
Case
And sometimes it's a little disappointing because you had built it up in your head, especially, like, if you've always seen the penultimate episode of a show and then you finally see the finale and, you know, nine times out of ten, it's not going to live up to your memory or to, like, what you had imagined in your head. That said, there is value in sort of speculating on, like, well, what were, like, this thing that I had never actually seen, really. Like, this is me trying to pivot back to Superman's origin.

14:47
Alex
Sure.

14:49
Case
But because by the early two thousands, we had tried to deal with, like, the post crisis Superman for a while.

14:55
Alex
Yeah.

14:56
Case
You know, the John Byrne reboot of the character had been, you know, successful enough. It had been solidified with Superman for all seasons, which is very clearly built in the shadow of the man of steel in a way that reinforces it really well. And then we had Superman, the Mark Wade relaunch, which I'm not actually a big fan of, but I think it's for the same reason that I was trepidatious about this book, which is that I lived in the post crisis era as my Supermandeh fandom. Like, yeah, you know, Genesis, I was worried that, like, trying to bring back Silver Age elements were going to disrupt the character that I had really come to care for, even though, like, I'm a huge fan of the Alan Moore supreme, like, the Silver Age Superman stuff, I'm here for.

15:43
Case
But, like, I felt like there was a place for this new Superman to, like, really grow into that space as opposed to backfilling him with all the weirdness. You know? I really like that post crisis Superman very quickly got the weird shit back. You know, he got his fortress of solitude back. He got, you know, he had multiple encounters with, like, kryptonian intelligences. You know, he had the pocket universe. Like, he had a supergirl, you know, he had a clone, and he had a guy dressed up in an armor just like him, you know?

16:14
Alex
Yeah. I mean, that's always the joy of the, of resetting on a crisis, is that you get to see, like, things that you're familiar with, but through a mirror darkly, perhaps it's always a little different, but, you know, it hits all those familiar notes and then does a new twist with it, which we definitely got in the post crisis era more or less successfully as crises went on and we all went, another crisis. Oh, it's still crisis, I guess. Here we go. You know, that's a matter for another. Another time, perhaps.

16:55
Case
A crisis in time, if you will. A zero hour.

16:59
Alex
Yeah. Yes, indeed. Yeah. I was just gonna add, like, as far as the Silver Age stuff goes, like, there's basically only one writer who's worked on Superman that I trust, who injects Silver Age stuff into Superman, and that's Grant Morrison. Other than that, like, please know. But that's just me.

17:19
Case
I guess I could have, I could see Alan Moore doing it. Although when I say that, I mean, like, I could see Alan Moore doing a good job. I couldn't actually see Alan Moore coming on to work on Superman anytime ever in the future, actually agreeing to do it.

17:33
Alex
Sure. Yeah. That'd be a weird comic book miracle.

17:36
Case
Yeah. I said the phrase, I could see him do it, and I was like, I mean that in a very specific way because I actually can't see him do it.

17:43
Alex
Yeah.

17:46
Case
So this book, I now coming from a perspective of a few years later and more open to the Silver Age in general. I've always been a fan of the Silver Age, but really embracing just how much history and how disruptive trying to take that away from Superman was to the fandom that existed. I am here for this one in a way that I am not here for Barry Allen coming back, or I can live without Jordan coming back. Barry coming back was like, just. Just throwing away a perfectly great, like, send off for the character. And you had a vehicle to have him pop in every now and then if you needed him. But you, but for the most part, you didn't have to because, you know, you just say, like, yeah, he's in the.

18:33
Case
He's in the fucking future, and he can come back a couple of times, but we know that he dies, like, fairly shortly after this point in his life. So, you know, let him have his, like, nice time with Iris. You know, have the Tornado twins have impulse and access his grandkids and then, you know, go die nobly in the crisis. Like, that was perfect. They didn't need to bring him back in any goddamn way. And now, because of the show and everything, everyone's just like, oh, well, the Flash is Barry. And I'm like, no, but the flash had a legacy and a meaning to it. Like, sorry. I am sorry. I am such a child of the nineties.

19:07
Alex
No, man, I get it. I'm there with you. Like, Wally was definitely my flash. So, like, I I understand. I understand that feeling. Even. Even knowing that there are actually quite a lot of Barry Allen reboot comics that I think are super cool and have really neat plots, I'm still like, but. But Wally is the flash, though, right?

19:30
Jmike
Yep, yep.

19:32
Case
So anyway, I think that this one is threading the needle better than those. Like, I think that the. The superboy stuff, like, does a great job. It does exactly what I say it. It should, which is that, like, he should have operated as Superboy, but generally speaking, no one saw it because he's just out there, like, saving lives and moving faster than the speeding bullet and, like, doesn't get observed. And there's just, like, rumors of, like, did a. Did the superboy, like, catch the car from, like, falling off a cliff? Like, I think that's perfect. I think that's exactly what you want because I actually really like the Superboy tie into the legion of superheroes. So I really like Clarke doing that.

20:11
Case
In fact, I would be fine if Clark never was Superboy in the current time, if as long as he goes to the future to be part of the legion. In that point, I did think it was awkward when this was coming out because it was right after the three boot era of Legion of superheroes, like, kind of ended. And I was a fan of that era too, because I liked the Legion in general. And I was a little worried about, like, oh, are we introducing, like, yet another legion? But now it's like a very silver age legion. Like, what's going on here, guys? And that became the retro boot Legion for curious about the Legion.

20:46
Alex
And the answer is yes.

20:53
Case
And that just keeps adding to the legion being more and more complex when it never needed to be this complicated. It could have just been, it's Superman's friends from the future.

21:02
Alex
Yeah. And yet for some reason, Legion, much like X Men is in Marvel, is a place where continuity goes to die. It is so snarled. Although I will say that Legion book, which is, in a weird way, kind of a sequel to this secret origin in that it's the same writer and artist, and it feels like a continuation of the Legion segment in this book, is actually pretty fun. Like, I do enjoy that book. I've read it back to back with secret origin when I read this the first time, and it felt like a very good, like, strong follow off of that. And I had a lot of fun with it. That was, yeah, that was good times. I think that's.

21:44
Case
Yeah, I gotta check it out. Like, I am a fan of the Legion of superheroes. There's just, I have strong opinions about them as well. And so that.

21:53
Jmike
But at the same time, only a fan. Only a fan.

21:55
Case
No, I would say only a fan. Like, look, we know people who are, like, hardcore fans and have way better, like, encyclopedic knowledge about the Legion in superheroes than I do. Like. No, because I humbly back down on that one. But I am a fan. I certainly am a fan of the series and of the concept as a whole. We're basically just talking about issue two right now, by the way.

22:20
Alex
Yeah, we kind of skipped one entirely, didn't we?

22:22
Case
We'll go back to issue one, but we might as well just finish up talking about issue two. So issue two is them introducing the legion of superhero stuff, which is very fun. It also confirms that Superboy is a functioning character, using the costume to sort of, you know, make it look crazier when he gets identified. Much the same as in secret identity, where it's. It is literally leading into, like, what you're gonna say that Superman saved you. In this case, it's just like, you're gonna say, a kid in a cape saved you. Like, that's. That sounds crazy. Yeah, I guess I was thinking about this today where it's just like, this is still in a world where, like, the golden age superheroes existed. Like, Green Lantern, like, Alan Scott existed. Like, people know who he was.

23:08
Jmike
Yeah, because, like, later on in the book, Lois's dad mentions it too. And I was like, so they know about superheroes, or they don't know about superheroes.

23:22
Case
I mean, I get that it's been, like, a long time. And I. I think, again, this is just a hard thing that you have to deal with when you try to have the history of the comics match up to the continuity of the comics as best you can. And that's gonna be a challenge. But it was a consideration I had here, however. So going through some of the beats here, we are introduced to Clark being Superboy actively as a hero by him saving Lionel Luthor to try to tie in the two characters. This is a. So they are doing their best to have businessman Lex and also Lex Luthor, the child of Smallville, who is embittered by Superboy.

24:03
Case
I don't think they pull it off because there isn't anything about Superboy that, like, actually sends Luthor into this, like, whole spiral of being a supervillain, which is no, the one which at that point, you're like, so why do they even know each other if they're not gonna, like, fork in some sort of meaningful way? And I mean, like, you could argue that it's fine to exist so that, like, other writers could backfill it if they wanted to in additional series about the whole thing. But it's kind of implied that, like, Luthor isn't really around for very long and doesn't really know Clark particularly well, which is unfortunate because I think that, like, a real exit, like, a real examination of that could be very cool.

24:42
Alex
Yeah. I mean, like, in this comic, at least, it seems like for the first three times that Clark meets Lex again. He goes, oh, hey, it's you again. And Lex is like, who are you? Am I supposed to know you? And so it's like, yeah, like, all the stuff that happens in Smallville kind of seems like it didn't matter to Lex at all. At least that's how he's fronting about it. I'm sure you could, like you say, go in and backfill and be like, oh, he was just being bitter and pretending that he didn't remember, but it actually mattered to him a lot or whatever. I mean, the idea of what. What, you know, what is. I mean, it's. It's pretty clear.

25:24
Alex
I don't know if they actually say it on the page or not, but it's pretty strongly implied that Lex was trying to get his dad killed and Clark saved him, right?

25:33
Case
Oh, yeah.

25:34
Jmike
Yeah.

25:35
Alex
So it's like, from the very beginning, you know, Clark is foiling Lex's heinous plans even when they don't know who one another are yet, which is kind of fun.

25:46
Case
Yeah. I just felt like he's already, like, on the path to villainy. And I kind of like the idea of Lex having, like, a gleaming moment where there was hope for him to be a hero or at least, like, not a bad guy.

25:57
Alex
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He does seem like he's born bad in this version of the story, so.

26:06
Case
Yeah. And, I mean, like, there's a bleeding heart story for why, like, he has a drunk father who abuses him. Like, I get it. Like, it's legit. Like. But, you know, it's, like, nice to have the idea that, like, Lex could have been a good guy, but things go wrong with his relationship with Superboy.

26:21
Alex
Yeah.

26:21
Case
You know, in a regard that, like, I think Smallville had, like, a good space to explore, you know, for however effective it was. Like, it's a cool idea of, like, decompressing that relationship between the two. And here it's very compressed.

26:35
Alex
Lots of things are very compressed in this comic book. This is something I was like, as I was rereading it again, I was like, for the first three or four issues, I was like, is it me, or do each of these issues feel like the first issue of a run? Rather than being, like, it's like sequential number ones over and over again instead of feeling like they build one another? That's not something I remembered from when I read this originally. But it's like, the first one is like, here's Superman's origin. Here's the legion's origin, here's the. And I'm like, okay. But they don't. It doesn't perfectly cohere in the way that I want it to. And as a result, I feel like I'm reading, like, multiple number ones instead of one, two, and three, if that makes sense.

27:27
Case
Yeah. It's like a collection of snapshots.

27:30
Alex
Yeah, precisely.

27:32
Case
Yeah, I do like that. They introduce Clark having the secret tunnel back into his parents house. It doesn't matter if it's downtown smallville or at the farm. It's easy enough to put that in there and have it just be a thing that people remember, and that's fun. I like the running joke about Clark being very embarrassed about his outfit. That even continues into him being an adulthood.

27:55
Jmike
Yeah.

27:56
Alex
Yeah.

27:57
Jmike
It was interesting with the crystals and his glasses. And I was like, I wasn't sure if that was canon or if they made it up for this book where his mom, like, sliced the crystals in half and gave him coke bottle glasses. I was like, haha. That's hilarious.

28:13
Case
There have been such weird versions of the Superman mythos for his glasses. I don't even know what's real versus what's been, like, parody at this point. Like, did he actually have, like, you know, mesmerizing glasses? I think he. I think he did officially at one point. So I don't know for sure.

28:34
Jmike
It wasn't a bad thing by any means. By any means. But, like, it was just, like, a funny little aside where, like, he's like, why do I have to wear these glasses? You're like, well, you know, keep you from burning down buildings. And he's like, oh. And he, like, you never did mention how it happened the first time. He's like, I don't want to talk about it.

28:50
Case
Yeah, I mean, we can roll in our conversation about issue two and issue one in that regard. So the Lana Lang kissing him and his heat vision kicking in. It's funny enough. They do a good job of having Lana Lang be his true partner, which is kind of interesting. That's a post crisis thing that they're rolling in there. And so it's, like, fun to make that, like, okay. This is the canon bit. It allows for man for all seasons to still be an applicable story for the character. It does seem like low hanging fruit to be like, every time she kisses him, his heat fishing kicks in is, I guess, what I'm getting at.

29:32
Jmike
Oh, that. And I kind of, like, drop her at the end of the book one, and she's never brought up again.

29:36
Case
Issue two.

29:37
Jmike
Oh, yeah.

29:39
Case
That's where he's like, I like you as a friend, which I find interesting. Generally, there's a part of me being like, clark, no, you're an idiot. But I don't know how you're gonna make that whole thing work. Like, do you deal with, like, a bad breakup? Do you deal with, like, how, you.

29:56
Jmike
Know, how he was trying to break up with her? He was more of, like, the whole, like, him being from krypton kind of, like, changed everything.

30:04
Alex
Yeah.

30:05
Jmike
And so he was like, I don't know if this can work out because I'm an alien and, you know, I have to save people now, I guess. So I can't really be your boyfriend.

30:17
Case
Well, he's, like, afraid of touching people because he might hurt them. Like, you know, Pete Ross, he, like, really fucked up in the first issue.

30:23
Jmike
He was fine.

30:25
Case
Yes, ultimately. But, like. But it wasn't for, like, that much trying. Like.

30:30
Alex
Yeah, but Clark felt bad about it because Clark is a good boy, right?

30:35
Jmike
So the goodest boy.

30:37
Alex
He is the goodest boy.

30:40
Case
So it is a scenario of, like, not wanting to hurt her. I get that. It is interesting because by the time we get to Lois, very clearly there's that chemistry between them. So I don't know. I guess that's the part there where just like, no, but when you're a teenager, just have this relationship now because you're dumb. What else are you doing?

31:01
Alex
Yeah, but as an extremely awkward teen myself who definitely fell flat on his face in several relationships that should have been a slam dunk. I understand what happened with him. I get.

31:15
Case
I do too. That's why. That's why I'm, like, mad. Because I'm like, no, because I'm seeing myself in him. Like, all those times where it's just like. Like the whole, like, oh, that was flirting, wasn't it?

31:25
Alex
Fucking, yeah. And I mean, it's just like, all the normal teen problems. And then keep on top of that, a healthy heaping of Kryptonian just like a great big giant rocket ship carried on his back at all times that no one else can see.

31:45
Case
Yeah. So that's roughly when the legion actually shows up. I think this is classic enough without them doing the whole, like, hi, Clark to Superboy. And then, like. Like, hi, Superboy to Clark Kent. And, like, say hi to your foster parents. Like, the Kens. Like, that whole bit from, like, the first appearance of the Legion of superheroes. He doesn't do that. He just has them show up and it's like, okay, that's kind of cool. And I like the idea that they're flying and he's like, wait, I can have friends who fly like me? I found that as, like, a really nice line at the end of the issue. Like, the notion that he's got friends who feel like him even if they're inspired by him. I think that's a really core part about the relationship between Clark and the Legion.

32:26
Case
And I think that this issue does a really good job of, like, setting that up. I also enjoy that Superboy is the one who creates the long lived Legion slogan. Oh, yes, that's pretty fun. That's a fun catchphrase.

32:37
Jmike
And, yeah, you're all kind of throwing around catchphrases. What's your problem?

32:44
Case
Lightning ladder is trying very hard.

32:46
Alex
Yeah, it is very funny that he basically makes up the iconic battle cry of the entire Legion just basically to try and look cool.

33:02
Case
It is always fascinating having Superboy meet brainiac five in a scenario where he doesn't know who brainiac one is.

33:08
Alex
Oh, yeah, that's actually kind of great. I think that's quite good. I mean, it is also fun for a more mature Superman to encounter brainiac five and be like, huh, interesting. I'll have to think about this. But, like, but also to have it go the other way is interesting too, I think, particularly because it's like, if this version of Superman meets Brainiac one now, like, will his immediate thought be, oh, you must be cool? That kind of thing?

33:43
Case
Obviously, he has the more adventures with the legion at this point. So, yeah, they would tell him, like, no, brainiac five is making up for the crimes of his original ancestor, who was your foe.

33:55
Alex
So watch out for that when it comes around.

33:58
Case
So when you meet a guy named Brainiac, he's not cool. We have to, we have to swear about that part.

34:03
Jmike
Yeah, I do kind of enjoy the fact that, like, the science police are kind of, like, chasing around already. Yeah.

34:11
Case
So this section is the spot that is the most leading into all of the stuff that Johns was putting out there at the time. Like the earth supremacist or human supremacists that are in there is a big plot point for his retro boot Legion book that runs around this time. They have all these things where it's just like the resurrection of Doomsday Candor, General Zod and the Earth New Krypton war. Like, all of that stuff is stories that are in the Geoff Johns run of that era. It's classic kind of baiting for those things. And I'm a little bummed that he didn't, like, drop some more classic stories in there in addition to the ones that he was putting out there. It's all of the stories that he's working on, but I get the impulse and it's fine.

34:56
Case
This is a side book that needs the clout of teasing stuff that's going to be important for the main book at this point.

35:04
Alex
Yeah, it's a fun thing that writers get to play with when time travel is involved. It's a very classic move, the doctor who fandom as well to foreshadow your big story arcs you have planned for later in very early episodes. So he's pulling that trick.

35:24
Case
Yeah, just no one's ever gonna do it as well as Dan Slott because he teased like 15 years ago in she Hulk, the in story for his fantastic four run, which would be like 15 years later. Yeah, like that took some work.

35:44
Alex
Yeah, but if he. But if he'd never got there, it would have just been a throwaway line that everyone forgot. Right.

35:51
Case
Basically. Anywho, so Clark comes back, he tells his parents about the whole thing and then he goes and catches crypto. Which.

35:59
Jmike
Yes, I gotta admit, when I first saw the ship, I was like, they're not gonna introduce car already, are they? Cuz he was like, I'm so lonely, blah, blah. I don't have anyone to call my friend except for the people from the future. But I don't know when they come back and the spaceship arrives. And I was like, they wouldn't really.

36:15
Alex
Well.

36:16
Case
And they set it up because earlier when you see Smallville, there is a crypto statue that they fly over or inflatable balloon, I'm not sure which.

36:25
Jmike
You see the little arf.

36:26
Case
Yep. And then we finally get the actual death of Lionel Luthor. And that concludes his youth period. So cycling back to issue one for anything that we didn't talk about. I don't know. I think that John's does a really good job of sort of exploring the psych. Like the psyche of a person who was growing up crushing everything around him by accident and needing to hold back. I think he does a really good job there. There's some really cool moments. I will say this. He does a great job with the Lana Clark relationship in this. Which is why I'm like kind of bummed that it's just like, oh, I think of you as a friend because it seems to be. It's very well written and there's great chemistry is what I'm getting at.

37:07
Alex
Yeah. Yeah. I do like the dynamic between Clark and Lana in this book. Like I kind of talked about before. It kind of doesn't connect to what comes later. Like, once we get past the Smallville segment, which is where the real strong, like repeated number one's energy happens. Like a lot of what follows in this book flows from then on. But it feels like a separate story almost. Yeah, but yeah, I do like it. I've always been a real strong fan of exploring the emotional vulnerability of Clark in his nascent period when his powers are first manifesting and how acquiring these incredible abilities would probably negatively affect a sensitive young boy like Clark.

38:00
Alex
I've always thought that if I got the opportunity to write my own Superman origin story, that the first power I would have come online for him is actually super hearing, because I think the idea of being able to hear terrible things going on and not be able to do anything about it would be the sort of thing that would really affect Clark in a strong way and kind of speak to why he's so ardent about doing the right thing all the time, even when it costs him, you know?

38:32
Case
Yeah, I really like that.

38:34
Jmike
I can't. I can't believe I'm going to admit this on air, but I have to give credit to Atlanta Steel and the Snyder when they did it on screen.

38:46
Case
When his powers kick in. Yeah.

38:49
Jmike
What is hearing and his x ray vision kick in because that's, like, the best way to visualize that of him. Like, sitting in school, being a normal kid, and then freaky stuff just starts happening and he starts having a panic attack because he doesn't know what the hell is happening to him.

39:04
Alex
Yeah, yeah.

39:05
Jmike
Perfect. That's the only good thing I'm gonna say about that movie.

39:08
Case
Well, I'm glad that you brought up man of Steel because this issue in particular feels very informative of that, which makes sense because Goyer is involved with both. So true. Or rather, Goyer is the. Is a friend of Geoff Johns, is the bigger point.

39:24
Alex
He wrote the introduction.

39:26
Case
That's why I was thinking about Goyer being involved in this book. But he has co written stuff with Johns in the past, so, you know, it makes sense that he would be on the, like, looking out for, like, what Johns was working on at any given time. Doing Superman origin stuff. Like the. You are. My son's shot is really good here, and it's, you know, verbatim taken into the movie.

39:44
Jmike
Yeah, it's a good. Another point is we actually have a good dad here. Oh, my gosh. He's looking out for Clark and making sure that he's taken care of and a good mom.

39:53
Case
I really like the idea of Martha seeing what kryptonians dress like and being the costume on that. I think that's really nice where she's like, we want to, like, support your culture and your upbringing. Like, we want to support who you are, all of you.

40:05
Alex
Yeah. Yeah. That's very cute. I really like that. And, yeah, I'm very pro. The Kents being, like, extremely good people because it's like the. I mean, it's. In my view, it is the only rational explanation for why Clark Kent, Superman would come out the way he is if he was. If he was raised by good people. Like, you know, his nature does not necessarily lend him towards being a saint. So clearly, nurture has to be the deciding factor there.

40:42
Case
Yeah.

40:42
Alex
Anytime the. The Kents are portrayed as kind of scuffed, I get a little. I get a little bristly about that.

40:53
Case
Yeah. This book definitely leans into the Kents are the best people, which is a take that I am always here for with Superman upbringing.

41:00
Jmike
Yeah, yeah.

41:01
Case
I do enjoy that. After the Smallville stuff, they don't come down on if the Kents are still alive or not. They're like, we're just gonna move on, whichever you prefer, guys.

41:15
Jmike
Well, they have that one shot where.

41:18
Case
The flashback where it's like, where he's hugging him and saying, I'm proud of you as you go off into the bigger world, or whatever.

41:25
Jmike
Well, that one. And after he shows up at Superman, they're on the front porch.

41:28
Case
I. Yeah, that.

41:29
Jmike
He's like, is that same one?

41:31
Case
Yeah, that's the shot.

41:32
Jmike
Okay.

41:33
Case
It's when he's talking to Jimmy, but.

41:34
Jmike
I thought it was one after that one. We're like, he's like, he's. He's Superman. And, like, once the cat's out the bag, you can't really put it back in or something like that.

41:41
Case
Right. They're, like, talking about him, like, going off to be Superman. But what I'm saying is that, like, they could have still died right after that.

41:47
Alex
Yeah, it could have. It could have been a flashback.

41:50
Jmike
I want.

41:51
Case
I mean, what I'm saying is it's allowing for both to be. To be the. The scenario. The scenario. And I think they settled. Whatever makes Kentucky alive. But, you know, I want both of.

42:02
Jmike
Them to be alive. Okay. It makes more fun for the story.

42:05
Case
Yeah. So let's jump into the post time jump scenario, issue three, which is another one of these, like. Yep. We're starting off with, like, Superman, issue one.

42:18
Alex
Yep.

42:19
Case
I like Metropolis being kind of a shittier place when Clark first arrives.

42:23
Alex
Yeah.

42:23
Case
Like, that's a fun detail. Like, everyone would be like, you know, only tourists look up.

42:28
Alex
Yeah. A very selfish culture around metropolis at the beginning here, which is. Yeah. A fun, you know, a fun statement on how the presence of Superman could affect the culture of a place also in an interesting way.

42:44
Case
Yeah. I think that's one of my favorite things about this book and one of the reasons why I come out of it, like, so positive at the end. Like, the fact that metropolis, we see it shift over the course of his. His time as superman. Like, that's great. I think that's so cool. Klutzy Clark is one that I have a hard time with. Like, you need to do really good work with that to make it something that I'm here for, because otherwise, it feels like a shtick that he's, like, leaning into too much.

43:13
Alex
Yeah.

43:14
Jmike
What do you mean, Kate?

43:15
Case
And it's. It's. It's. It's a razor edge that you have to walk because, like, I don't want him to be, like, so fucking cool. But at the same time, you know, I think, like, the fact is he's, like, a six four, you know, beefcake from Kansas. Like, you're gonna respect him to a certain degree. And this. This book does a great job of being like, oh, you want everyone to underestimate you? Like, I think that's a really cool take on, like, the relationship with Lois. But right off the bat, he, like, has his, like, his briefcase, like, pop open multiple times. And, like, I feel like all of the. Every time Clark is a klutz. It should be. He knows what he's doing, and it's on purpose, and it doesn't feel like that in these introductions to the character.

43:57
Case
And that's where it's just like, okay, reign it in. Reign it in. And I get that part of it allows for him to bump into Rudy Jones so that we can. Well, I guess it's a Superman origin story. So we're gonna talk about the parasite and metallo in this book because, you know, it seems that those are the characters that they want to introduce early on every time with Superman. And we spend some time with Rudy Jones as a human in this book, and. Goddamn, is he insufferable.

44:23
Alex
Yeah, he's the worst, actually. Yeah. He's not a good person. It is a very interesting take to have him be metaphorically parasitic as well as physically.

44:35
Case
Yeah, I thought that was clever.

44:38
Jmike
Yeah, it's really good.

44:39
Case
I just didn't like him.

44:42
Jmike
Well, you're not supposed to.

44:43
Case
I know, I know, but I got so mad. Especially, like, by the end, when they're like, if you could just do the eye test. It's like, I'm not big on tests. Like, do you have more donuts? That was, like, pushing it a bit too far at that point.

44:59
Alex
Yeah, there's definitely characters you love to hate. Rudy Jones is a character that you hate to hate. He is just like, he's terrible. And every time he's on screen, I'm like, can we get rid of this guy?

45:13
Case
Right. But like I said, it was clever. It just.

45:17
Alex
Yeah, it works. It works.

45:19
Case
It's just a little heavy handed in a way that, like, kind of bothered me.

45:22
Alex
Yeah.

45:23
Jmike
Yeah.

45:24
Case
I like the planet office. I like. I mean, it's a flashback. So, you know, with Lombard being, like, super in shape and whatnot. I'll find there. I find it interesting when Ron troupe is there when Clark arrives because, you know, like, in the. When he's originally introduced, he's, like, trying to fill in for Clark Kent at the Daily Planet. Like, he looks up to Clark Kent. So that's an interesting shift there. I do really like the introduction of Jimmy and, like, the friendship between Jimmy and Clark is really nice. Like, him calling him Jim, him being the only one to remember his name is a nice detail. Yep.

45:59
Alex
Yeah. That's always a thing I like with various versions of Clark and various continuities is when they give him a beat where he remembers a person's name when he doesn't have to because it's so frequent that people don't do that, you know? And it's a very easy way to illustrate how much he cares about other people.

46:21
Case
Yeah. Like, I love in most continuities where he knows, like, all the hot dog vendors and whatnot.

46:26
Alex
Yeah. Or, like, even in the new 52 timeline when Clark, quote unquote, dies and, like, all the planet people are having a eulogy for him. And one bit of it that I always remember is Lois saying that Clark didn't just always give money to all of the homeless people on the street, but he knew all their names.

46:50
Case
Yeah. Anyway, I like the introduction of Lois here as this, like, firebrand reporter. Like, always here for, like, a feisty Lois.

46:57
Alex
Yeah.

46:58
Case
And I like when she's introduced to Clark, it's like the Lois is fine. Like, there's a little bit of, like, a flirtation going on there because, again, like, that makes sense. Like, Clark towers over everyone in the room.

47:13
Alex
I do.

47:14
Jmike
I do find it, like, I like the angle of the Daily Planet being, like, nearly broke at this point because I've never seen it done that way before. And I was like, okay, this is kind of different.

47:24
Alex
I really enjoy the reason why they're nearly broke also.

47:27
Jmike
Yeah.

47:28
Alex
Because they will not go along with Luthor's B's. Like, they will not buy into the fake news of Lex Luthor, and as a result, they're almost bankrupt.

47:41
Case
Yeah. If you imagine that Luther owns 78% of Metropolis, and so, like, his advertising dollars must dictate almost everything going on in the news.

47:50
Alex
Right.

47:51
Case
I think that's great. I like that Lois grabs Clark to use as, like, a part of her plan immediately and rushes off right away. You know, the Rudy Jones cameo when they're leaving is also. Is fine. It gets more annoying later, but in this point, he's like, grifting a 20 off of Clark is like, all right. I'm cool with him being a parasite here. And we get the, like, the whole, like, he'll suck you dry right there.

48:18
Jmike
Yeah.

48:19
Alex
Foreshadowing.

48:20
Case
I have to admit, I get very excited when it. When she's like, move over like Woodward and Bernstein and make way for Lois and Clark. Nice. Like, that's exciting. And, like, using Clark as, like, a distraction to, like, sneak in. Nice. That's perfect. Oh, and here's metallo because, of course it's metallo. I enjoy the. The hint that the, like, the metal is, like, particularly strong once, like, charged with, like, a type of radiation when you're like, oh, yeah. Okay, so that's going to be the kryptonite ultimately. It is weird that Lex already has the kryptonite at this point. So, like, why hasn't he already, like, tested it?

49:00
Jmike
Like, I feel like he has been, let's say it's kind of implied that he's been testing it, and then they kind of, like, don't go anywhere with it except for the whole parasite introduction as a villain introduction. I do also find it funny that Lois thinks she's sneaking, but the security officers notice her right away.

49:20
Case
Yeah, like, they don't like. And she's on first name basis with them. Like, she says, louie, long time.

49:28
Alex
It's not the first time she's been thrown out of Alexa tour event.

49:32
Case
Yeah, but I like when she tries to get away, it creates the situation that is just from fucking Superman 78, where the helicopter is falling and, like, Superman catches her and then catches the helicopter.

49:43
Jmike
What you mean? Not only does he look just like Christopher Reeve, he also reenact the same scene from Superman Seven uncomfortably.

49:51
Case
So. Yes.

49:52
Alex
Yes. Yeah, I. That is definitely anytime that happens in secret origins, I'm like, wow, it's from the movie.

50:00
Case
It's from the movie.

50:03
Alex
I know what that is amazing.

50:07
Case
Jeez.

50:08
Alex
Come on, man.

50:10
Case
But it is cool to get a look up in the sky right as he rushes by. Those do feel like, good moments right there. Superman is written very earnestly in this book. That is the thing that makes me respect it more so than necessarily, like, it's punching above its weight class.

50:26
Alex
Sure. Yeah. I definitely don't want a cynical Superman, so I'm down for that. But, like, yeah, leaning into the Superman the movie stuff very strongly.

50:38
Jmike
There's so many other ways you can go for a Superman. He doesn't always have to look like Christopher Reed is my thing.

50:44
Case
Yeah.

50:46
Jmike
There have been, like, how many other Superman since him? Like three or four.

50:51
Case
Sincere. Let's see.

50:52
Jmike
Yeah.

50:52
Case
Dean Cain, Tyler Hacklin, Henry Cavill, Brandon Routh. Yeah. And Tom welling. So five right there.

50:59
Jmike
Five. Yeah, five. So there's plenty.

51:01
Case
Other than counting the new movie coming out.

51:03
Jmike
Yeah, I'm just saying there's other faces that you can use.

51:08
Alex
There are many supermen.

51:12
Case
So next up, we get this whole, like, Lex Luthor showering the citizens of Metropolis by, like, selecting one person to, like, fulfill his entire thing, which, by the way, is exactly the plot of the Disney movie wish that just came out.

51:24
Jmike
Oh, really?

51:25
Alex
That's funny. No, I really like that. This is one of the things that I recommended this book for, though, is I really like how Lex treats Metropolis prior to Superman's appearance on the scene. The fact that he portrays what he's doing as, like, a beneficent thing for these lowly people is so Lex Luthor. And also, like, the fact that everyone kind of goes along with it. It has this weird, like, dark, Willy Wonka energy to it that, like, I find it so fascinating. It's such a, like, a warped mentality that. That, like, when I talk to my friends about this book, I'm always like, you know, it honestly feels like how the 1% view their philanthropy just, like, solidified into, like, a single. A single, like, page of comic that.

52:22
Alex
This idea that they're doing this great thing by help, like, picking out this one person from amongst the unwashed masses and giving them their hopes and dreams or whatever. And look how good I am for doing this. I mean, it makes me hate Lex a whole lot, which is the point.

52:44
Case
Well, and somehow he's, like, even worse to Rudy Jones. Like, when it's, like, at a glance, I could have you get a higher education where it's just like, I'm just gonna guess you don't have a college degree just based on, like, vibes. Yeah.

53:02
Alex
Yeah, yeah. And it's like, yeah. Some of these people that get picked out of the crowd also just kind of get experimented on, like Rudy Jones. Yeah, screw Lex Luthor and all of his holier than thou b's is basically what I'm trying to say.

53:19
Case
Yeah. But meanwhile, Rudy, like, this is where it becomes, like, a bit over the top, where he's just like, can I get more donuts? Like, can I. Are these all free? Are these free? Is the first thing he asks. And then he tries to argue, well, if you would send me to college, could I just get the money that you would have spent on me going to college?

53:38
Alex
He's just a grasping little worm of a man, and it only becomes more literal as the comic goes on.

53:46
Case
Yeah. So then we get Lex pulling aside Lois and Clark to talk to them. And this is the spot where I, where he drops general Lane as a character in here, which is a thing that I am generally pleased with, like, the increase of importance that Sam Lane has had since the eighties. Like, it's so wild that the first time he was referenced as being a general was the man of Steel series. And so the fact that this has become such, so integral that he's the main villain of the first season of my adventures with Superman is awesome. Like, I find that's so cool.

54:23
Alex
Yeah. And that was at that moment when all of these characters were involved. I was like, oh, man, weird. My real shades of my adventures with Superman going on in this book feels like a rough draft run of it, almost. Yeah, a weird way.

54:38
Case
Yeah. I mean, I think some of that can just be taken to, like, what the zeitgeist canon of Superman is, like, not the canon of a specific era of Superman, but, like, just what we expect out of Superman has become. You know, very, there are tropes that we just sort of, like, assign as being like, yeah, no, this makes sense. Like, part of his early adventures are he deals with parasite and metallo. Like, that's just going to be a regular part of it. Lex Luthor gets introduced and, like, builds up to being his greatest villain ever. Like, that's just going to be a thing. That's going to be part of this world. How he finds the rocket, how he interacts with his kryptonian upbringing, like, what he does with his powers as a kid versus whatever. Like, there's wiggle room in all of that.

55:21
Case
But, like, we are very much, like, assigning, like, this is the way that the animated series did that. Morrison did that.

55:29
Alex
Yeah.

55:29
Case
That my adventures of Superman did that. That this book is doing, like.

55:34
Alex
Yeah, there's a vibe.

55:36
Jmike
Yeah.

55:37
Case
But it is like, this repeating pattern.

55:41
Alex
Yeah, I was actually. This is kind of a tangent, but, like, I was actually surprised at the deep cuts that were present in my adventures with Superman, like, metagang getting a shout out in the first season. I was like, okay, all right. Somebody's read some comic books. Okay. I was like, it was very interesting to me that they had livewire be one of the first villains in that one to crop up, like, even ahead of parasite and metallo.

56:09
Case
Yeah, that's like them trying to, like, mix it up a bit.

56:12
Alex
Yeah, yeah, because, yeah. When that character first showed up, I was speculating on, like, a much older, more established super villainesses present, and then it was livewire, and I was like, oh, okay, cool, cool. You know?

56:32
Jmike
Anyway, yeah, and she's out of shock jock this time too. So this is. This is completely new territory for them.

56:39
Alex
Yeah, they went a different way with it.

56:43
Case
Back in the comic, we get the introduction of the parasite, actually. So they're like, rudy, can you read this line? And he's like, I'm not good at tests. Actually. Could you just feed me? And he gets a donut that gets, like, radioactive goo on it and takes one bite, and that's enough to turn him completely into the parasite.

57:04
Alex
I've seen weirder villain origins, I guess, but, yeah, it is. I ate a radioactive donut is definitely not the thing you want to tell your cellmate when you end up in whatever supercell after being defeated by Superman for the 15th time.

57:21
Case
Yeah. But I'll say this. It's a good looking parasite. Yeah, it's appropriately kind of grotesque. And this is an area where that level of detail that Gary Frank is putting into his art, I think it actually works out really well. Like, his mouth is really creepy looking. I don't necessarily want to fat shame a character, but, like, he's got this sort of, like, gross kind of physicality to him that he inherits from Rudy Jones, as opposed to looking just sort of like a guy in a purple suit.

57:50
Alex
Yeah, that's true.

57:51
Case
That he sometimes looks like, I like the whole, like, you smell good, or, like, I can smell you smells good. And then he, like, bites into Superman and actually, like, sucks into him, which is all very effective stuff, that tongue, like, licking up the blood. Oh, this was an insight I had. Is parasite. Is his skin, like, all tongue? I don't know, because I was thinking about that, like, in terms of, like, how he can kind of taste things and, like, absorb nutrients through, like, physical contact with stuff. Not just, like, through his mouth, but, like, just like, making, like, touching a thing. And he kind of, like, can sense energy. And I was like, oh, that's a really creepy, like, perspective on it where, like, his entire flesh is just the tongue.

58:36
Alex
Just a giant tongue. I never thought of it like that, but that is interesting.

58:40
Jmike
Creepy.

58:43
Case
Like, that kind of explains why he's pink, right?

58:46
Alex
Yeah, totally.

58:47
Case
I don't know. The fight itself is, like, pretty easy. Like, superman, like, hits him with the heat beam and then, like, freezes him and is able to. To take him down. It's not significant. It's just like, a quick encounter for the sake of having one. And then Lex confronts Superman and is like, I'm going to sue you.

59:06
Alex
Yeah, he does. He does a good job of doing the thing that Lex often does, which is try to turn the crowd on Superman really fast by asking questions about where he came from and what he actually wants. And, like, appeals to everyone's greater cynicism, basically. And it actually causes Superman to flee in the moment because he's not sure what he should be doing or saying yet. He's still too green at it, you know?

59:35
Case
Yeah, and I like that. I like that his super hearing has been this, like, big source of anxiety for the character. And it causes him to fly to the Daily Planet where he has a really good scene with Jimmy Olsen. I really like how, yeah, they, like, bond over both kind of feeling like outcasts in the city. That's really cool. Like, him agreeing to take his one shot or the one photo for Jimmy is really fun. And that sets up like, oh, yeah, I'm doing a favor for my pal, who I want to be friends with both as Superman and as Clark. And it helps him stay in and proves himself as a photographer. It's a nice scene. I like it.

01:00:19
Jmike
Yeah.

01:00:19
Alex
Yeah. I think it's kind of funny that, I don't know if it's intentional, but it feels like it's almost the beginning of. It is almost like a parody of that famous talking down, the person planning on jumping from all Star, where he says to Jim, like, don't jump. And Jim's like, jump. What are you talking about? Are you crazy? And then they just have a normal conversation about something else. Yeah, I thought that was kind of funny. I was like, I wonder if that is a joking nod towards that all star scene.

01:00:54
Case
It might be. I mean, it would certainly match up the timeline.

01:00:57
Alex
Yeah.

01:00:57
Case
And then Jimmy brings in this great photo of Superman doing the Superman pose. And it looks so good. And Lois immediately is like, look like you've got a new dream team. And I love feisty Lois. Like, it's so good. Then we get Superman saving a bunch of shit after, like, newspapers actually start, like, being like, maybe Superman's a pretty good thing and Luthor is pissed about this, or, yes, he's going after the Daily Planet. So we get, like, shots of Superman, like, saving stuff, like, a bunch of really good ones. And then we get Superman holding a car over his head, which has to be an action comics number one reference that Jimmy is allowed to get a photo of that, too.

01:01:33
Jmike
And I was like, are they trying to pull it off, or is it going for something else? No, it's like, oh, this is actually pretty cool. Cool. I love this.

01:01:42
Alex
It is, in my opinion, kind of essential, especially in origin, to have bits of Superman saving people rather than just fighting villains. I'm looking at you, man of steel. So, like, you know, that's. That's. It's nice that it's here. It feels. It's. It's compact, but it feels fun. I do think it's kind of funny, actually, that a lot of the Daily Planet photos of Superman are actually kind of staged. That's kind of a funny twist on it that he's, like, after. I mean, he's so fast and everything. It's like getting shots of him in the moment would be nearly impossible. So it is kind of a funny idea that after he's done actually saving people, he just stages fake rescue photos for Jimmy. That. That's an amusing idea.

01:02:34
Jmike
It's like Spider man.

01:02:35
Case
Yeah.

01:02:37
Alex
It'S interesting. I always had this idea that on a sort of, like, philosophical level, that it would be kind of interesting in early Superman stories to have Lois Lane be the primary antagonist of Lex Luthor and for the enmity between Luthor and Superman to basically build, because Superman keeps stopping Luthor from killing Lois Lane. This comic kind of does that in the sense that I feel like, for a lot of it, Luthor's real beef is with the Daily Planet more than Superman. It's kind of more diffuse than how I would do it. But I do find that idea fun, that the journalists in the story who kind of represent truth are the, like, polar opposite to Lex Luthor's lies and corruption.

01:03:31
Case
Yeah, no, that's a perfect point, because then the next scene we have after Superman's done all these things, that's getting media attention. He's mad at the planet, and he's like, Sam Lane, you need to get your daughter in line. And he's like, no one can get my daughter in line, she is the worst. I mean, his actual line is, my daughter causes problems for everyone. Luthor.

01:03:53
Alex
Yep. In the best way possible, but not from their perspective, I imagine.

01:03:58
Case
And it's funny, though, because, like, what. What does Sam Lane going to do? Like, it's. The relationship with Lois is really just to make it, like, suck more for everyone involved. Because, like, if it was any other newspaper or any other general, it would just be like, we're shutting you down because the president says so, because we, like, we got strong armed by, like, our defense contractor. All the same problems would occur to. But the fact that the general in question happens to be the reporter who's writing all the shit's father is, like, such an interesting knife twist. But we get introduced to John Corbin.

01:04:35
Alex
Yeah, it's a. We kind of skipped over it, but during Lois's introduction, she dumpsters a thing of flowers that turn out to have been from John, which is important in that intro thing. I think it's funny because when you read through it in that initial scene, it seems almost heartless on Lois's part, would dumpster these flowers. And then you meet John, and you're like, oh, I understand.

01:04:59
Case
Yeah. Yeah. Like. Cause at first he, like, seems kind of hurt, and then he, like, comes off as a dick. And I like how Superman, like, steps in as Clark to be like, oh, hi, sorry. We've got a lunch meeting actually going on.

01:05:16
Jmike
Kirby the frog.

01:05:16
Case
Really? And, hi, I'm Clark Kent. And then they shake hands and, like, he, like, has, like, super grip. And so, like, Corbin actually has to, like, pull away in pain, and that's, like, kind of a fun moment there. That's effective, clumsy Clark stuff.

01:05:31
Alex
Yes, I agree. That's. It's a good way of using Clark Kent.

01:05:35
Jmike
Yeah, because, like, while they're shaking hands, Corbin has, like, this straight, angry look on his face, and they pan to Clark and the next panel. Clark has that goofy, like, nonchalant look on his face.

01:05:48
Case
I'll tell your father hello. Is such a. Like a bite, like a biting line as he, like, walks away, too. And then this is a bit that, like, kind of frustrates me, which is that Clark invites Lois to lunch, and then later, he doesn't actually pay for it, even though he's the one who offered to, like, get her lunch. And I'm like, clark, no, no. That is such a dick move.

01:06:10
Alex
Yeah. I mean, it feels like a Peter Parker thing to do, but, I mean, like, Parker would not be able to pay because he was broke rather than whatever's going on here. But there's tension in Clark at this point between trying to maintain his alternate identity and then also genuinely being interested in Lois and wanting her to like him. But also, she's a naturally perceptive person. So it's like, sort of in order to maintain his identity, he has to sort of do things that would push her away a little bit. It's kind of interesting.

01:06:51
Case
Yeah.

01:06:52
Jmike
It's kind of like a throwback to the first book where Lana tells him that he has to get better at lying because he sucks ass at it.

01:06:59
Alex
Yeah.

01:07:01
Jmike
He's like, oh, I have this thing in my ear got to go by Noah's like, oh, wait, so he never practiced gotcha. He's got absolutely worse.

01:07:09
Case
And, like, right before that, he, like, spills the milk to try to prove that he's such a dweeb and then immediately has to come up with a new excuse. And it's just like this cascading of being bad at lying in general. Meanwhile, Luthor is telling Sam Lane, like, hey, I've got a suit of armor that will be able to do some real damage because it's the stuff that we created, the waste that created the parasite, with which I like that as a detail, that the parasite is a kryptonian byproduct. Like, if early origin stuff should have, like, some kryptonian ties just to, like, keep the world from being too big too fast, like, I. You know, I agree it should get bigger and get weirder and have, like, more out there kind of stuff.

01:07:51
Case
But at first, like, having a few things that are, like, you know, the kryptonite villain of the weak stuff from Smallville is okay, like, as long as you branch out eventually. And I like it here with parasite. He's the first villain that Superman fights in this. Like, it makes sense. And then Corbin's, like, jumps up as being like, I want to pilot this fucking thing, which doesn't quite make sense because it's not like he has an actual grudge with Superman yet, but it kind of reads that way.

01:08:13
Alex
Yeah. The only thing I can think is that, like, it's clear that Lois is spending a lot of time with Superman, and it's. It's clear that Corbin is, like, deeply jealous of anything that is occupying Lois Lane's time. That is not him.

01:08:28
Case
Yeah, that's fair.

01:08:29
Alex
So maybe he just wants to kill him to eliminate what he sees as some kind of competition to himself in his sort of, like, narcissistic fashion, a diagnosis that is overused these days but perhaps fits for Corbin, in this case.

01:08:45
Case
No. I think you have a good read there. So anyway, Superman gets lured into meeting with Sam Lane. They make a big deal about the alien thing here, and I can tell that this is what, like, Geoff John's plan to really hang the hat of his run on at this point. The human hostility to aliens, especially with the Krypton stuff, you can tell that's what he wants to build towards, because that's the big talking point with Sam right off the bat. So Superman agrees to go with Sam Lane, and once it starts to get kind of hostile, he's like, this feels like an interrogation. It's like, that's exactly what this is like. I'm leaving. If you go, you're an enemy of the United States. I'm nobody's enemy, general. And storms off, and that's when they start shooting at him.

01:09:30
Case
And then the robot armor of metallo comes to attack him, which I will say. I overall, like that. It does feel like a nod to the classic Lex Luthor armor.

01:09:41
Jmike
Yeah.

01:09:42
Case
I don't know if it's the exact shape that I would make it, but, like, I'm here for it enough. It also does not stick around for very long because it blows up almost immediately.

01:09:54
Alex
It does. It does. Yeah. I mean, like, all the xenophobia and, like, the. The comic being extremely down on the military, which is, like. I mean, not. Not to say that I'm, like a military booster, exactly, but, like, they're. They're depicted in an almost villainous fashion throughout this comic. That reminded me again, like, oh, yeah, this was made in, like, 2009 or something like that. So it's like, the war in Iraq is still very fresh. There's a lot of, like, feelings of xenophobia surrounding, like, you know, people like immigrants and things like that. So he's clearly speaking to those. Those anxieties of the time, I think, with this portion of the comic.

01:10:38
Case
Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I can't. I can't fault the decisions made. Like, the impetus to explore these issues with Superman, I think, is a good one. It's just. It feels very heavy handed.

01:10:52
Alex
Yeah.

01:10:54
Case
We're definitely building towards a thing here. Okay, cool. The fight with the corbin in metallo armor is pretty quick. I do like that when he starts getting exposed to Krypton, he's still invulnerable, or rather, bullets still bounce off him.

01:11:09
Alex
He just bleeds.

01:11:10
Case
But he does bleed from them.

01:11:11
Alex
Yeah.

01:11:12
Case
Like, that's a cool detail.

01:11:13
Alex
Yeah, I like that too.

01:11:15
Case
And I like that he gets shot in the forehead, and that bullet ricochets and blows up the. The kryptonian chunk. Like, that's gotta hurt.

01:11:22
Alex
Yeah, I do. Like a little bit later when the military guys are, like, pursuing him through the sewer and it's like Superman as, like, horror movie villain or something, you know, for just a little bit, he's like. He's like, suddenly, like a slasher movie villain as they're pursuing him through the sewers in the dark and whatever.

01:11:44
Case
Yeah, I was wondering if he wasn't recovering faster because he was in the dark.

01:11:49
Alex
Oh, that's a good point. Does he know at this point that he gets his powers from the sun?

01:11:54
Case
I don't know. And I was wondering if maybe he just doesn't know that and that's why he seems to be a little bit weaker until he gets out of the sunlight.

01:12:02
Alex
Yeah, they don't make a big deal of it, but. But that would be funny if he. He just didn't realize. Realize that. Yeah, I didn't think of that. But it's a good point.

01:12:15
Case
Yeah. I enjoyed Lex Luthor working on the exploded John Corbin. Although I think the timeline's a little fucked here because the next issue, like, seems to pick up, like, immediately after. And Corbin has been converted into this, like, cyborg body really fast.

01:12:30
Alex
Yeah, well, he's just alive. He's just that good, I guess.

01:12:36
Case
He was not in a cave with a box of scraps. So Sam Lane shows up to shut down the planet, and they're like, hey, you know, the first amendment is a thing. And it's like, no one gives a shit about the daily Planet.

01:12:52
Alex
They're like, well, the patriot act was also a thing, so you're screwed to, right?

01:13:00
Case
So news coverage is that Superman is fighting the army, which I'm like, when did they even, like, get that coverage? Like, clearly propaganda because they're being fed this line because, like, the fight actually hasn't occurred yet, at least not in, like, public sight. Superman, like, eventually does escape into, like, the sun and seems to start, like, turning around the whole thing. And, like, sam Lane is like, pretty much like, no, it's a done deal. Superman is dead. But, like, Superman's already on the run. And, like, they're like, weapon to hurt him has already been destroyed. So, like, you have not gotten some very important updates on your plan. Man.

01:13:34
Alex
He's a little behind the moment, maybe.

01:13:36
Case
Yeah, but I like that it's set up where it's just like, oh, yeah, he's so confident. And then, like, the tank flies through the air and it's just like. Or maybe not.

01:13:45
Alex
Yeah, he's got some fight left in him.

01:13:47
Case
Yes. Yep. But then, yeah, the metallo robot form shows up, or cyborg form shows up, demanding a rematch. And again, I'm like, how did you get this? Like, this is a complicated design. Like, this is not just, like, slapped together. And this is actually my big thing, which is that the armor doesn't look at all like the ultimate robot body. And, like, if it looked closer, then I could believe that he was just integrated into the robot body instead. It. They're so different that it's just like, well, how did you have the time to make this. This thing? Like, this is really complicated.

01:14:20
Jmike
Really good at what he does. Case.

01:14:22
Alex
Yeah.

01:14:22
Jmike
I thought he likes Luthor.

01:14:25
Case
He has an m belt buckle.

01:14:29
Alex
He just had the blueprints lying around and all the parts ready to go. He was just waiting for some schmuck to get messed up enough that he could go, you know? I could. And so he just had it all ready to go. That's as was stated, he's Lex Luthor. That's how.

01:14:50
Case
Right.

01:14:52
Alex
We can hand wave it, I guess, but. But, yeah, it is weird now that you point it out. I didn't think about it, but it is pretty fast, right?

01:15:00
Case
It's because it's, like, supposed to be, like, immediately after, that's all. And, like, again, you can hand wave it and it's fine. Like, he's got advanced tech tools. You know, he could. You could say it's like all nanobots or whatever, and it's like, okay, it's fine.

01:15:11
Alex
Nanomachines, son.

01:15:15
Case
But anyway, Corbin is a douchebag to his other soldiers. Like, he, like, is dangerous to them, even without them disagreeing with him, when it's just like, are you sure you're okay, sir? Get the fuck back. And he starts smashing around. Shit. But it is nice that they honor the rules, that talking is a free action. When Lois runs out and they just allowed to chat for a minute, the.

01:15:38
Jmike
Fight must stop for 30 seconds.

01:15:40
Alex
That's right.

01:15:41
Case
Then we get the very Frankenstein's monster looking Corbin, when Superman punches him and I. And blows off his helmet. And that's, like a fun moment right there. I like Superman jumping in the way of the kryptonite beam, assuming that it could actually hurt a person, which makes sense. Like, kryptonite is radioactive, even in its weakest form, and it's just inertly radiating out. It's dangerous to people. It's just more dangerous to Superman. So the concentrated beam should hurt her, but it's also not set up that it actually would.

01:16:10
Alex
Yeah. I mean, it's a concentrated beam of radiation, so I can only assume it would at least cause cancer.

01:16:16
Case
Yeah, I like, for cancer, I like his plan of taking the manhole cover and, like, melting that over the chamber. Like, that makes sense. Like, that's just a good plan. Like, I'm like, that's a good use of your powers, both super strength and heat vision. Tactical use right there. Cool. Flying him up into space to, like, keep him from breathing. Also cool. Although it is effectively a chokehold.

01:16:37
Alex
Yeah, yeah. You could just put him in a sleeper and kind of achieve the same thing. Right. But I always love it when they have Superman, like, use his powers in conjunction in very clever ways, because there's nothing that puts me to sleep faster than a writer that just has Superman punch things all the time. He's got this gigantic array of amazing powers, and it's like, Clark's not an idiot. He's totally capable of using all this stuff in conjunction and fun ways. And that is some of the best stuff in comics. Always use powers in unexpected ways. That is my motto.

01:17:17
Case
For real?

01:17:18
Alex
So. So, yeah.

01:17:20
Jmike
Man can't put people in chokeholds. He might break their neck.

01:17:23
Alex
That's a good point.

01:17:24
Case
That is also true. So instead, fly them into the ionosphere.

01:17:31
Alex
Yeah. Well, he operates on a different scale. What can we say?

01:17:39
Case
So he comes back and he confronts Sam Lane and is just like, back down. And the soldiers are like, no, Corbin was a douchebag. And then the citizens are like, Corbin was a douchebag. And everyone's like, yeah, Corbin was a douchebag. And Sam's like, I guess he was being a douchebag. And, like, retreats, man. The shot of Lou, the shot of Lois. I'm going to just show the panel this bottom shot there, man. She looks like Margot kidder right there.

01:18:03
Jmike
Yeah, yeah.

01:18:07
Alex
Yeah.

01:18:08
Jmike
I wonder why they keep trying to do these one for one shots of these characters.

01:18:12
Case
For some reason, these shots looking so much like the actors from the Superman 78. Yeah, yeah.

01:18:18
Alex
They just want to drop us in the uncanny valley, like, once an issue, at least, that's all.

01:18:24
Case
So then we get a classic Superman like approaches Lex, and it's like, I'll be watching you, Luthor.

01:18:29
Alex
Yeah. Very reminiscent of the beginning of Superman, the animated series.

01:18:34
Case
Yep, yep. And it's a classic kind of scene, you know, like, yeah, for sure. So it works really well. And I like the idea that the planet is picking up 700%. Yeah, something like that. And they, like, I like Clark going to, like, flirt with Lois, but also setting himself up to, like, have Superman be, like, seen as a different person. Like, that's. That's an effective misdirect right there where it's just like, sorry, Clark, I have to ditch you. And then, like, run upstairs and, you know, he just uses super speed to be up there. That's cool. I like their flirting being interrupted by Jimmy. That's always fun.

01:19:07
Alex
Yeah, a classic move. Good job, Jim.

01:19:11
Case
And I like Superman restoring the Daily Planet to its rotating spin. Like, that's. That's a nice moment there. And the answer, like, this is the on the nose one where it's like, are you a man or an alien? I'm Superman. Like, it's a nice line, but it is very much like, man, Jeff really wants to talk about the alien experience here.

01:19:29
Alex
Yeah.

01:19:30
Case
And then I enjoy the, like, the whole Luthor tribute thing that he does. Like, the bread and circus thing being, like, disrupted by Superman. Like, being so inspiring. And, like, after no one shows up for Luthor's thing, we get, like, yet another midwestern country bumpkin, like, coming into town and, like, bumping into, like, I think it's supposed to be the same person, or at least it's archetypally the same person, but instead of being cussed out for, like, looking up into the sky, it's like, we always are looking up into the sky because Superman might come around. And then we get a really good version of look up in the sky, like, with, like, that one woman and, like, it. Like, we see, like, the rush of hair, of people's hair, like, going and just Superman flying and, like, that's a really good, uplifting.

01:20:09
Case
Yeah, it's a very strong ending to this piece.

01:20:11
Alex
Yeah, I agree. I agree. And that is secret origin. I definitely. I definitely vibe stronger with the back half than I do at the front.

01:20:21
Case
Well, the back half is one story versus the front is a bunch of little snippets of Clark's life.

01:20:27
Alex
Yeah. And kind of setting up the legion stuff that would be done in a different volume later, but, yeah, I mean, it has a lot of the beats that I really like in a Superman origin. I do think that some of Geoff Johns dialogue is a little. Is. Is cornier than I remember it being. Like, there are times where. Where, like, characters will say something, and I'm like, man, this feels so much like something that a character would say in, like. Like, a wrestling bit. Right? Like, it feels like, bad kayfabe, almost. Like. Like, I can't think of a really great example. I think some of it comes from, like, the fighting banter with, like, parasite. I'm pretty sure there's, like, one of those parasite being like, oh, man, you taste good.

01:21:11
Alex
And he's like, oh, yeah, well, why don't you eat my fist or something like that? And I'm like, okay. Well. But overall, I like the ideas present in this story. And that's always the thing that the reason I like Superman in general is because of considering some of the, like, ethical ramifications of this kind of thing. And this story plays with that in some interesting ways, I think.

01:21:38
Case
Yeah, I think this is a really interesting companion piece to Superman, Earth one, which I think these two are the inspirational bits for man of Steel in a lot of ways. Like, obviously, man of Steel and Earth one came about too much at the same time for it to really be a direct inspiration for it all. But you could see how there are bits of how do we modernize Superman while keeping true to the weird shit of the past that's going on in there? I think that I ultimately really like the stance of being, like, fairly classic, fairly earnest. Like, Superman never feels, like, poorly written because he's always just so goddamn earnest, aside from his, like, one liners not being great. But he's also supposedly bad at lying. So you assume he's also bad at one liners.

01:22:25
Alex
Like, yeah, he's probably not nailing those zingers.

01:22:29
Case
He's not exactly. He's not Spider Mandev.

01:22:35
Alex
Yeah, I was gonna say bringing up Earth one, it's like, I hated Earth one. Like, I really did not like that take on it. So it's like, it's interesting you bring that up as the two elements that kind of combine to make the man of steel thing, because it's like, there are some little parts of man of steel that I do like, and I think a lot of those are ideas that are borrowed from secret origin.

01:22:59
Case
Yeah.

01:23:00
Alex
So, and then. And then there's everything else, right.

01:23:06
Case
So I don't want to be, like, too negative about it, but, like. But there's certainly some missteps going on there. So, like, I. Again, I hadn't read this before. J Mac, had you read this before?

01:23:18
Jmike
Nope. I'd heard about it, but I'd never read it before.

01:23:21
Case
Yeah. Like, I ended up really enjoying it.

01:23:23
Jmike
I.

01:23:23
Case
Like I said, I think that this earnest superman's, like, a good take. It's bringing the classic stuff back. I think that it came out at a time where people weren't quite clear, like, hey, are we rebooting stuff right now? Because this was right around, like, infinite crisis, where it sort of was a multiverse reboot story, but at the same time, it kind of ended with the status quo being the exact same. Wasn't sure if this was necessary, but in a perspective where you're trying to do a new Superman story, and it's what, every ten years, you do a big origin story. So this is, like, right after about ten years after birth, right? So. Sure. Okay, cool. We're doing an updated Superman story. Like I said, I ended up really liking it. I really like his relationship with Lois.

01:24:03
Case
I also really like his relationship with Lana. And I think that Jeff Johns just actually did a really good job writing chemistry for Clark with these two women, which is not a thing I normally would praise Geoff Johns for.

01:24:16
Alex
Fair enough.

01:24:17
Case
It's just not a thing. I'm not trying to insult him. I'm trying to say just not a thing I would normally think about, like, oh, yeah. Like, you can, you know, write some good relationship stuff. Like, it's just not a strength that I normally think of for him, but these both work really well. Like, they're both vivacious women that I was, like, kind of, like, putting myself in Clark's shoes, being like, what are you just idiot. Just, like, just seal the deal with one of them. Like, just go.

01:24:44
Alex
And they do feel meaningfully like different characters, which, obviously, in a lot of earlier Superman stories is not necessarily the case.

01:24:51
Case
Yes, very much, though. I really like that they are distinct women.

01:24:56
Alex
Yeah.

01:24:56
Case
I like the deal with Pete Ross potentially having an idea of Clark having his powers because he's so happy about it all and always his booster. It allows for the old scenario of Pete Ross knowing that Clark is Superboy to be a thing. I'm here for that. I think they do a good job there. I overall like the legion stuff. I like the origin stuff. I really like the Kents. So in general, I'm pretty happy with this. I think that the artwork is. You have to, like, just sort of brace yourself for it, and then once you're. You're in it's fine.

01:25:26
Alex
Yeah.

01:25:26
Case
But there are some moments where it's just like, it's. I'm really like, obviously, he's an amazing artist, but I just can't help but think, like, what would this have looked like if it was Tom Grummet as the artist?

01:25:37
Alex
Yeah, totally different, right?

01:25:38
Case
Yeah.

01:25:39
Alex
Yeah. And I will say that as. As there. The Geoff Johns Gary Frank run on Superman went on. He did chill out a lot with this stuff. Even by the Legion volume. I feel like the trips to the uncanny valley are much fewer and far between, a thing I appreciate greatly.

01:25:58
Case
Yes, there are just too many trips in this book.

01:26:01
Alex
Yes. This book is the height of it being like, oh, man, I keep seeing artistic renditions of a guy who died and also was a famous actor. And also, it's like, there's just too much baggage attached to that for me to be like, this is Clark Kent in a Superman story.

01:26:21
Case
Right.

01:26:21
Alex
You know what I mean?

01:26:22
Case
Exactly. Like, Clark Kent doesn't quite look like any actor who's played Clark Kent.

01:26:27
Alex
No, and he should not.

01:26:29
Case
They're just really good actors choices to play Clark Kent. Likewise for Superman. And so that's. That's just the thing. Like, you know, I really like the Christopher Reeve Superman's movies, but, like, they are not the totality of what Superman is.

01:26:44
Jmike
Exactly. Exactly.

01:26:48
Case
So that's the one area where, like, I kind of am like, I don't know. But I think this is technically the current origin for the character because of the way that birth went, because new 52 happened. And then the pre crisis, or, pardon me, the post crisis supermande was inserted into the new 52 timeline. And I think this is the last origin update he got before that whole.

01:27:11
Jmike
Before new 52, if I remember correctly, that n 52 Superman died or something. And then the post crisis one was there the entire time.

01:27:20
Case
Yes.

01:27:20
Jmike
Hiding in the background doing stuff for people, and then he just kind of, like, took over. He, like, slipped in that Superman's place and took over. They consolidate everything.

01:27:29
Case
And then the timelines kind of, like, just. There's like, a big. There's a big don't worry about it wave that, like, rushes over.

01:27:36
Alex
Yeah, well, thank God for that. We need that wave because that hurts my brain so much. Everything you do.

01:27:41
Case
What's worse is there's two Lois's for a period of time and, like, for a stress. The new 52, Lois, is superwoman and is, like, annoyed that people are like, how does no one notice that? That's, like, a much older version of me that is now, like, inhabiting my life.

01:27:57
Jmike
It's like, that's when we get, like, the whole. The end of, like, the super suns run.

01:28:02
Case
Yeah.

01:28:03
Jmike
And then, like, a whole bunch of other stuff happens. It was. It was a really weird time with rebirth thing because they were trying to, like, make it all make sense.

01:28:11
Case
Yeah. And now they, like, literally don't talk about it. It's so weird.

01:28:16
Jmike
It's so weird.

01:28:17
Alex
Oh, dear. Yeah, that's. That's complicated. Yeah. I kind of fell out of the reading comic books entirely, but certainly Superman, like, partway through new 52, so I didn't know any of that you just told me.

01:28:31
Case
So new 52 was rough. Like, even the good stuff that was going on, like, the Morrison Superman stuff, like, new 52 as a general structure, was rough.

01:28:41
Alex
Yeah. Yeah. And even. Even Morrison's take on that rebooted character, I was like, I see where you're going with this, and I like it, but it needs tweaking. This is not quite right still.

01:28:55
Jmike
Yeah, I think that's like a tagline for the entire new 52 series. Yeah, it's not quite right.

01:29:01
Case
Needs tweaking.

01:29:02
Jmike
Not quite right.

01:29:04
Case
Yeah. Well, anyway, I don't want to go too far down that particular tangent. So, Alex, thank you for bringing this book. This was a great read. I'm so happy to have now, like, incorporated this into my knowledge of the man of Steel.

01:29:19
Alex
Yeah, you're most welcome.

01:29:21
Case
It's a fun read. I would definitely recommend it. Where can people find you? Follow you? What have you got going on that people should check out?

01:29:28
Alex
Yeah. So right now, I think the primary place that you can find me is I have a website which is www.admcconnell.com, where my blog slash newsletter can be found, where I expound about comics and tabletop role playing and various novel projects that I'm working on. I'm a writer as well as a culture commentator, so, yeah, that's where you can find all my stuff. That would be a D M c o N e l L. Every second letter is doubled.

01:30:06
Case
That's a good way of trying to. To deal with the spelling issue that I'm sure pop up.

01:30:11
Alex
Yeah. Cool.

01:30:13
Case
Well, yeah, no, everyone should be checking out your website.

01:30:15
Alex
Thank you.

01:30:15
Case
Do you have any socials that you want to get through out there?

01:30:18
Alex
Not currently, no. I bailed off of Twitter a while. Like, even Elon Musk takeover, but definitely afterwards I was like, man, good call.

01:30:29
Case
Yeah, yeah. For real.

01:30:33
Alex
But, yeah, just, yeah, find me at the website. I'll be happy to talk to people on there.

01:30:39
Case
Sure, sure. And, J Mike, where can people find you and follow you?

01:30:44
Jmike
Oh, man. On the dumpster fire site known as Twitter at J Mike 101. I'm there. I'm lurking in the shadows, watching everything burn down very slowly. But if you tag me in something, send me a message, I will gladly respond and crack a couple of jokes with you.

01:31:00
Case
Yeah, you're always a great inclusion in any conversation online.

01:31:04
Alex
I try.

01:31:09
Case
Because you're such a lurker, and then you emerge a wonderful jab. As for me, you can find me on all those platforms at Case Aiken, except for Instagram, where I'm holding onto my aim screen name for dear life, where you can find me at five because I was a pretentious mythology nerd and a legion of superheroes nerd in high school. There you go. That's why. Also, you should check out certainpov.com, where you can find more episodes of this show as well as tons of great other shows. You can also find a link to our Discord server where you can come interact with us directly, and then you can talk to people from other cool shows. Like, I'm going to just drop out fun and games with Matt and Jeff.

01:31:45
Case
Matt, our former editor, and Jeff, our current editor, host a wonderful discussion about video game just in general, like video game journalism, video game as an industry, and then like, video game nostalgia. So check that all out of and then circle back for more episodes of this show. But until then, stay super man.

01:32:12
Jmike
Men of steel is a certain POV production. Our hosts are J. Mike Folson and case Aiken. The show is edited by Sophia Ricciardi. Our logo is by Chris Batista. And episode art is by case Aiken. Our theme is by Jeff Moonan.

01:32:32
Case
Hey, Nerf Herders, you sure you want to go with that? Hey, everyone. There we go.

01:32:38
Alex
More inviting.

01:32:39
Case
Have you ever had a movie that you really wanted to love, but something holds you back?

01:32:44
Alex
Or one that you did love in spite of a flaw?

01:32:46
Case
Well, I'm case Aker.

01:32:47
Alex
And I'm Sam Alisea.

01:32:49
Case
Another pass. We sit down with cool guests to look at movies that we find fascinating but flawed, and we try to imagine what could have been done when they were made to give them that little push. We're not experts. We just believe in criticism. Constructive criticism. Sure. So come take another pass at some movies with us. And every now and then we can celebrate movies that did it on their own, too. You can find us@certainpov.com or wherever you get.