A Dirty Shame Got Another Pass
Sometimes, a movie can be derailed by the censors and what happened to the return on this movie was A Dirty Shame! Wes Johnson, who was in the film as Fat F*** Frank, joins Case and Sam to discuss A Dirty Shame.
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Meeting summary:
● In the podcast episode titled "165 - AP - A Dirty Shame Got Another Pass," host Case Aiken interviews actor Wes Johnson, reflecting on the making of John Waters' controversial film "A Dirty Shame" (2004). The conversation explores the film's budget struggles, its disappointing box office performance, and the challenges posed by its NC-17 rating, which impacted distribution. Wes shares personal anecdotes from his audition experience and memorable moments during filming, including interactions with cast members like Tracy Ullman and Johnny Knoxville. The discussion delves into Waters’ unique creative process, from his meticulous writing habits to his innovative set design and makeup techniques that brought the film's explicit themes to life. The episode concludes with Wes discussing his future projects and offering advice for aspiring creatives, while also highlighting the film's cultural significance in the context of societal attitudes toward sex and censorship.
Notes:
● 🎬 Introduction to A Dirty Shame (00:00 - 10:13)
● Discussing John Waters' movie 'A Dirty Shame' (2004)
● Movie budget: $15 million, box office: $1.9 million
● NC-17 rating due to content and timing (Super Bowl incident)
● Cast includes Tracy Ullman, Johnny Knoxville, Selma Blair, Chris Isaac
● Wes Johnson played 'Fat Fuck Frank' in the movie
● 🎭 Behind the Scenes with Wes Johnson (10:13 - 19:21)
● Wes auditioned for the role through Pat Moran
● First read-through at John Waters' house
● Filming experience and interactions with cast members
● Anecdotes about premieres in Baltimore and New York City
● 🎥 Production Challenges and Anecdotes (19:21 - 27:39)
● NC-17 rating impact on distribution and box office
● Chris Isaac as a last-minute addition to the cast
● On-set experiences and interactions with other actors
● Wes's personal experiences during filming
● 🍿 John Waters' Creative Process (27:39 - 36:30)
● Waters' writing process: 8 AM to noon daily
● Starts with location scouting and title
● Writes longhand, cuts and pastes physically
● Pitches with detailed treatments and fake ad campaigns
● Never turns in first draft, keeps rewriting
● 🎨 Set Design and Special Effects (36:30 - 46:49)
● Vincent Periano's set design: adding explicit elements to trees and bushes
● Van Smith as the 'dirt expert' for character appearances
● Makeup and costume techniques for authentic looks
● Anecdotes about specific scenes and props
● 🌟 Cast Experiences and Movie Impact (46:49 - 56:24)
● Interactions between cast members on and off set
● John Waters' parents' reaction to the movie
● NC-17 rating's protective effect against indecency crusaders
● Movie's reflection of societal attitudes towards sex and censorship
● 🎤 Wes Johnson's Career and Closing Thoughts (56:24 - 01:06:46)
● Wes's upcoming projects and voice acting roles
● Voiceopalooza charity event for Alzheimer's Association
● Advice on pursuing passion in creative fields
● Discussion of fake movie props (empty coffee cups)
Transcription
00:00
Wes
But. But in regard to John Waters movies, how do you define that?
00:04
Case
I define it in this scenario, as in that it didn't make its budget back.
00:08
Wes
I think a lot of that has to do with the rating.
00:10
Sam
Yeah.
00:10
Wes
Right.
00:10
Case
Yes. But at the same time, I think it's worth us having this conversation. It's just usually we are talking about movies that, quote, unquote, were successes in spite of the. The challenges that they were faced with.
00:21
Wes
Definitely falls under the heading of a cult film.
00:24
Case
Yeah, it's definitely a cult classic.
00:26
Wes
If you ever get the dvd for a dirty shame, make sure you get the NC 17 version. I'll tell you why. Ask me why.
00:31
Case
Oh, yeah. We'll get into that. Welcome to certain povs, another past podcast with case and Sam. This week is a fifth episode, so we're talking about a movie that overcame adversity. Let's celebrate the creativity of the filmmakers. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the another past podcast. I'm Case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Sam Alisea.
00:56
Wes
Hi.
00:58
Case
And today we're talking about a work of cinema that I'm trying to avoid saying too many swear words at the very beginning of episodes anymore because it turns out that restricts your monetization on YouTube, specifically the first minute. So I'm like, I can't even reference some of the things I need to right now. Today we're talking about a movie that earned an NC 17 rating despite the fact that it was shooting for an r, and as a result, had some work to do to make it a cult classic. Because today we're talking about a dirty shame. And to have that conversation, we are joined by Wes Johnson.
01:35
Wes
Howdy.
01:36
Case
Now, Wes, you are a prolific actor and voice actor who I know from us working together on Starship Farragut, specifically the latest production, Farragut forward a lot.
01:46
Wes
More latex, usually on my face at that point.
01:48
Case
That's true. You normally are a Klingon when I'm talking to you, which is a lot of fun. And as a result, a captive audience.
01:55
Wes
For me, it's been a lot of fun. I've enjoyed doing that. I've enjoyed being a Klingon, learning how to respeak once I get prosthetic teeth put in. You'd be very surprised at the voices that you might practice, thinking it would be a Klingon. And then you put the teeth down. You have to make new sounds like a ventriloquist would, so that you can using G's and D's and things of that sort in places of other things. It's weird.
02:25
Case
Yeah. I mean, like, you have to make all kinds of weird sounds, which you're plenty familiar with since you have a huge career just making all kinds of weird sounds.
02:33
Wes
Yeah. Hundred some odd different video game voiceovers, some that you might have known, like Shia Gorath, Diedrich, Prince of Madness, or Lucy the chance, the Dark Brotherhood, or Mo Konen from Diamond City. Fallout's very big right now, you know. So I played a lot of super mutants and things like that. So, yeah, a dirty shame. I played a different kind of mutant by the name of. Well, since we're still in the first minute, let's just call him triple and we'll get to more later.
03:05
Case
We're clear. At the first minute, I was actually getting ready to name drop that one because. Yeah, in today's movie, you play the part of fat fuck Frank.
03:12
Wes
Yes. And at the time, I weighed about 200 pounds more than I weigh right now. Right now, I could probably play fit fuck Frank. But as you can see in the background with Tracy Ullman and Selma Blair on the back of Ray's truck. Ray Ray, of course, was being played by Johnny Knoxville. And I was a big head said guy, and it was fun auditions. I can tell you more about that and the whole process, the whole shebang, if you'd like.
03:40
Case
Yeah, I want to hear about all of that.
03:43
Wes
Yeah.
03:43
Case
Why don't we just knock out some of the basic details for people who are not familiar with this movie? A Dirty Shame is a 2004 John Waters comedy. I guess I would call it comedy.
03:54
Wes
And an educational film.
03:56
Case
Yeah. Written and directed by John Waters, hometown hero for. For all his Maryland people. And it is starring Tracy Ullman, Johnny Knoxville, Sommel Blair, Chris Isaac. And here's the weird spot on this one, which is that this is a fifth episode. So we are talking about a movie that succeeded in spite of the challenges in front of it. This movie is a cult classic. It was not a commercial success. So it was a $15 million budget and a box office of only 1.9 million. But there's reasons for that, and we will get into that when we talk about the movie.
04:26
Wes
When I went to see it at a multiplex with some family members, they had an armed guard inside theater to make sure that anyone came in was of age. An armed guard. They don't have them outside of theaters these days, but an armed guard was keeping them from coming in theater, which can tend to sedate the box office.
04:48
Case
Yeah, yeah. I mean, especially because it ended up with an NC 17 rating, which means that it's not even. You can come with your parents, like, if you're underage, like you're not supposed to be.
04:58
Wes
Yeah, you can't. Under 18. Under 17. Not admitted. And, you know, I blame Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson.
05:06
Case
I know what you mean. But for people who are not as old as I am, why don't you explain?
05:12
Wes
Well, the Super bowl took place a day before. A dirty shame went in front of the review board a day before. And I. In this Super bowl, which was live, and you had Janet Jackson performing live on stage, Justin Timberlake reaches up, grabs a hold of her top, and we have a wardrobe malfunction where he rips a part of it off, exposing her breasts on national tv to a nation that came there only for the violence, not for the sex. And they were aghast. Aghast, I tell you. And we had a very republican, right wing government in place at the time, and we must put a stop to this. Breasts in public cannot happen. And the next day, this review board gets a chance to see John's film, and he is contractually obligated to turn in an r rated film.
06:02
Wes
Now, if you look at a bunch of movies that are out there's just like a small little bit of nudity. Very small bit of nudity, not hardly anything. It's all talk. It's basically like Zack and Mary make a porno, which gets an r rating, but a few years later, away from the heat of this big Super bowl unveiling. But basically they say, no, we're not giving it the r. It's going to be an NC 17. And John comes in and says, well, what can I do? I mean, what edits can I make? I have to turn in an r rated film. What edits can I make? In order to secure the r rating? They said, we stopped taking notes after the first ten minutes. So that was it. That was basically it. The cut that wanted to do now was an NC 17.
06:50
Wes
He still had to come up with an r rated version, which he did. It might as well have been something that could have been one of these, you know, hallmark Channel television stations. The way they cut it up, I became fat freak Frank. They cut out a whole bunch of scenes, blurred a kid's finger. I'm not going to tell you which one it was. You get the idea. And they went through this whole thing. They sanitized it up as best you possibly could. In a movie that basically talks about sexual addiction, they called it the neuter edition, because there are sex addicts, and then there are the neuters. And the neuters, of course, hate sex. The neuters are very repressed. So John had to put out the neuter edition. The NC 17 version was the one that came out in theaters.
07:35
Wes
But then again, there were so few theaters that would actually play it. They have rules against it. And if they did have it in a multiplex, it had to be under guardous. So I was quite amused, by the way, by this indian couple who, when they looked at the COVID of a dirty shame, and if you've ever seen it almost looks like a Bollywood poster. So much so that I think these people thought they were coming into a Bollywood scene. And in the first scene, where in the middle of traffic, spoilers, Johnny Knoxville goes down on Tracy Ullman in the front seat of her car in the middle of a traffic jamden, they get up and go, walking out highly offended. You could see nostrils of flaring and eyes. And this is not bollywood. No one was even singing. And out they went.
08:25
Wes
So for me, I thought that was incredibly funny. And I had seen the movie already about four times at different premieres. Once in Baltimore, at the senator, which was amazing. We had a big party at a museum afterwards, and I got to meet all the original Dreamlanders, which was a dream come true. Up in New York City was a great one. And afterwards, we had a party at this club, and there were all these naked, sweaty people with glitter on, dancing up on this stage. And then they started making their way into a crowd. Making their way out into the crowd.
09:02
Wes
And I don't care how progressive you think you are or how into this sort of scene you might think you are, I just know that people parted like the Red Sea, because when a sweaty, naked person covered in glitter is walking towards you will get out of the way, especially if you're wearing couture. Yeah.
09:24
Case
Cause you're never getting it out.
09:25
Wes
Yeah.
09:26
Sam
You never get it out.
09:27
Wes
Glitter never leaves somebody else's sweat and glitter. How do you explain that when you get home? But that was pretty fun. And, of course, there at the end of the evening, after all the actual celebs left, Geraldo Rivera showed up and pulled up into one of the booths nearby and started macking out with some woman like he had his tongue so far down her throat. Have thought that it was Al Capone's secret vault, and it was all these people. We had just finished making a film about sex addiction, and were all grossed out by him. Wow.
10:01
Case
All these people watching this movie, by the way, I need just to mention this one before we get too far into it. Watching this movie, I need to remind myself always when I'm watching a John Waters movie that I'm gonna know someone in the movie. And so I'm watching this movie, and, of course, I'm waiting to see you, because I knew that you were in this movie. And then goddamn. Dave Moretti shows up.
10:19
Wes
It plays Mama Bear. Dave Moretti was one of the three bears and was amazing in this movie.
10:27
Case
Yeah, listeners. Dave Moretti is the technical director on Farragut Forward, a carpenter extraordinaire at set making. Like, is a wizard at making these. These amazing sets on. On this modern Star Trek production that we're doing. And then I'm just, like, watching this movie, and it's just like, here's the three bears. Yes. It's those kind of bears.
10:47
Wes
John Waters, that is coming out of the third closet. Yeah.
10:52
Case
It's like, have you met my husband? I'm like, fucking Dave.
10:55
Wes
It's so great. Dave is fantastic in the movie, and Dave's a fantastic guy. And I was so happy to be able to see him again and start hanging out with him again on Farragut. I saw him at the John Waters Christmas show last year as well, at the Birchmere. We always go out and go see John at his Christmas show, which is always very funny. John Water's spoken word stuff is fantastic, and it was one of the first times he'd seen me since I lost all the weight. So I went and bought one of his books, and I took it over, and I slid it in front of him, and he's like, who should I make it out to? And I said, could you make it out to fat fuck Frank? And he goes, is that you? Like, yeah, that's me.
11:36
Wes
Did you lose it on purpose?
11:38
Case
Yes.
11:38
Wes
Oh, then congratulations. Very exciting. Cool stuff.
11:43
Case
Yeah. Very nice guy. I've met John once when I was working for Adam Shankman, and they had dinner together while working on step up to the streets. I was his chauffeur for the evening. It was a very nice guy. When I got to meet him, it.
11:55
Wes
Sort of surprised to a lot of people at what a gentleman he is.
11:59
Case
Yeah.
11:59
Wes
Because they expect this radical guy, this crazy man, this radical guy. And maybe once upon a time, he might have been, but John is just the coolest, nicest guy. Although I sent him a candle recently that I had specifically made that shows him in a holy position, and it says, the pope of puke. The sainted John Waters. And I sent it to him and it got sent back, returned to sender. Because I think any box that shows up at his house, I would imagine that after pink flamingos, John's not opening any boxes that come in the mail. Since someone mailed a turd, I would imagine he's probably had about 400 of those mailed to him over the years. So don't take any chances.
12:42
Wes
You get a box in the mail, send that turd back until I see him in person to get him his candle.
12:48
Case
Speaking of John Waters and your relationship with him, how did you get attached to this movie? Had you worked with John before or no?
12:55
Wes
Auditioning through Pat Moran. And Pat is one of the original Dreamlander folks. I've been working and auditioning through her for years, and I finally got a chance to go in and do an audition there. And they called me back several times. I came back for the final callbacks, and I felt like I knew this guy. I felt like I knew who this guy was. I have a lot of brothers and cousins and things that sort of all bikers. And so I just channeled them. And when I get there for the audition at Pats, first of all, I weighed 360 pounds. So they say she's on the fourth floor, or she was on the fourth floor, but there's a second floor part two, and a third floor part two, and a fourth floor part two.
13:38
Wes
So it's really about six to seven flights of stairs you're taking to get up there. And they're looking for somebody by the name of Fat fuck Frank. And here I am at 360 pounds. I'm passing the competition's dead bodies on the way up, you know, because they're just not making it up there. So that cuts out half.
13:55
Case
I was curious if the character was initially named Fat Fuck Frank or if they like.
13:59
Wes
Yeah, he loves his alliterative names like that. And I get upstairs and I'm looking, and I realize there's a couple of real bikers there, because John sometimes does love authenticity. One guy's name's Reaper, and the other guy's name is outcast, and they look mean. And I'm thinking, if he's going for authenticity, there's no way because I'm coming in at this as from a funny angle, misses stickles, and I got this kind of thing going on. Oh, yeah, that's. That's fat fuck Frank right there. So I go in and I audition, and John says, did you hear what he just did? He did it the way he did it when he came in the first time, that's all I want to do. I want to know if he can still do it and then if he can change a little bit.
14:41
Wes
I want, you'd be surprised at how many people come in and audition and want to show me what a good actor they are and change everything up all over again. And I thought, mental note for auditioning. And I learned a little something from John right there. But I didn't think I was going to get the role. But I wanted it. I wanted it bad. I was a John Waters fan. I loved his work. I thought he was hilarious. I thought that he was edgy. And I knew he was legendary in Baltimore. I really wanted this role. I felt like I knew who this character was. And then I didn't hear anything for about a week or two. And I thought, my wife's like, what's the matter? You seem bummed. I'm like, yeah, well, I broke my own rule. She said, what rule is that?
15:26
Wes
I said, you go to an audition, you give it everything youve got, you live the role and then you leave it behind. You turn around, you walk away. Cool guys dont look back at explosions. You get out of there, you go home and you forget about it. I didnt forget about it. I made the mistake of wanting it. So youre sitting by the phone waiting for it to rain. Like youre hoping you get a prom date and you end up being a wallflower. So I said, heres what im going to do. She was going to go out for a little while and I said, im just going to go take a nap. I'm going to go lay down, I'm going to take a nap and I'm going to feel sorry for myself for a little while.
15:58
Wes
When I wake up, wax on, wax off, it's all done and I won't think about it ever again. Went in and took a nap. When I woke up, light on the answering machine service is flashing. I have a message. I check it and it's Pat Moran's office. And I call up and it's John Strawbridge. And he goes, wes, how would you like to be our fat fuck? Normally it's not the kind of question you ask somebody else, but delighted. And I was very excited. And it led me into about a month and a half adventure. That was the closest thing to the kind of camaraderie I felt when I was in high school, doing high school plays and productions, getting close with people that I've ever experienced on a set. It was really a cool, fun set.
16:45
Case
Yeah, the movie strikes me as, like, it would just be fun to do. There's a lot of, like, big crowd scenes of everyone being excited and even, like, the neuters. Like, I feel like those scenes would be a ton of fun to just do.
16:57
Wes
Suzanne shepherd, who played Tracy Ullman's mother, who was the leader of all the neuters, at first saw this script, came to Baltimore, looked at the script, and was like, hell to the no. And she got on a train and was heading back, and somebody talked to her and said, you may want to reconsider, because this is fun and John is awesome. And she thought about it and thought about it, and she finally came back, and she ended up being not just perfect in the role, but a really fun, cool sport about it all, too. To see her sitting there, this woman who is. She was Carmella's mother in a soprano. She was in Goodfellas. She's one of the big drama teachers in New York City. Really well known, well renowned.
17:38
Wes
Sitting there having coffee and just shooting the shit back and forth with mink stole. That was pretty awesome.
17:46
Case
Yeah, yeah, I like, yeah, the cast is so good. I was honestly kind of shocked. So I hadn't seen this movie before. We talked about doing it for the show. I remembered it. Like, I remembered the ads for it. And then I had read the book screenplays, which is a book about selling screenplays, and Waters has a chapter in it and specifically talks about a dirty shame for that one. So it's always kind of stated in the back of my mind, because, like, I remember, like, things about that. And I reread that chapter specifically for this episode, but I hadn't actually seen the movie until this. And so then I start the movie, and it's like, yeah, I kind of remember that it was Johnny Knoxville, but I didn't remember anything else about it.
18:23
Case
Then I start watching it, and I'm like, oh, it's Tracey Ullman. Oh, and Selma Blair. Like, oh, my God. Like, Jackie Hoffman's in it. Like, Jesus Christ. Like, all these amazing performers are in it.
18:32
Wes
Patty Hearst, man. You know, rehearsing at John Waters House, you go downstairs, and if you go downstairs to use the lower bathroom, there's a shadow box on the wall that's filled with things from her days in the sybanese liberation army, including the sunglasses she wore when she robbed the bank. Some cool things at John's house. You know, one room is just this library that would put any college professor to shame. All these books on a wall. And as John Waters said, if you go to somebody's house and you don't see books there, don't fuck them. Then you walk into another room and there's an electric chair. A real electric chair.
19:08
Case
Yeah, I've seen it.
19:11
Wes
It's eclectic. It's very cool. And that's where we did our first read through, where there are only about ten of us there at John's house, in that room with all the books. You know the opening scene in the movie where Vaughn is in the bathroom and Tracy catches him?
19:25
Case
Yep.
19:26
Wes
When they read that, I'm sitting on the couch in between them. It felt like an awkward place to be. Just pretend I'm not here. But it was very cool. And then afterwards, Tracy was like, can I get a ride back to flight three with you? And I'm like, did I clean the car? Did I. In the car?
19:45
Case
Sam, had you seen this movie before?
19:47
Sam
No, I hadn't. I vaguely remembered, like, commercials for it. And I love Tracy Allman. Like, and I love John Waters, too. Like, I guess it together, you know? Like, it wasn't, like, on my radar. And so I was watching it and I was like, you know, the first, like, five minutes, like, what? The what? And then I was done. I was like, oh, yeah, I feel this rhythm. Like, I get it. Like, if you watch enough John Myers movies, right? You'd like the rhythm of it, you know? And I guess a kid who grew up on, like, hairspray and crybaby, although cereal mom is probably my favorite. You definitely, like, get the rhythm of him. And so, like, it was really interesting to watch because I was like, oh.
20:28
Wes
What's interesting about John's movies is that even though they have these controversial subjects, they have all these things going on. He's trying so hard to be a bad boy. There's a real innocence in some ways to some of these, at the core of them. Yeah, yeah. A sweetness and innocence underneath of all of these things. And in each one of his movies, there is something along those lines.
20:52
Sam
I mean, yeah. The whole family learned how to orgasm in this one, so.
20:55
Wes
Well, don't try the head butting thing. That'll just.
20:58
Case
No.
20:59
Sam
That terrible idea.
21:01
Wes
Yeah, but what a fun time the whole thing was. And to film all these things and to get a chance, you know, Chris Isaac was a last minute addition to this cast.
21:11
Case
Oh, yeah.
21:12
Wes
He was not the original Vaughn stickles. Do you know who the original Vaughn stickles was going to be? No. No.
21:16
Case
Tell us.
21:17
Wes
Paul Giamatti. Oh, right.
21:19
Case
Oh, my God. I saw a note about that. That's so weird.
21:22
Wes
He was doing sideways. Sideways is the wine one? Wine one? Yeah. Went long, and he couldn't get out of it. And so they had. Because of schedules, he couldn't do it, but he was really wanting to do it, but he couldn't. Then they bring Chris in, and I got to tell you, sitting with Chris Isaac at lunch many nights, lunch or dinner, and it's always lunch, even if you're having it, like two in the morning, where we did sometimes. And he's, you know, you and I would be dropping names, like, talking about Will or Johnny or any of the folks that we work with. You know, he's dropping names like Roy Orverson and Paul McCartney and telling these tales. We're all just like, tell me more. And at the rat party, they're doing karaoke.
22:08
Wes
Chris Isaac gets up on stage and does karaoke to wicked game.
22:12
Sam
Wow.
22:13
Wes
Which was way cool. And I'm shouting out, you're no Chris Isaac. So gotta be a smart ass till the very end, you know.
22:21
Case
Now you got me wondering, like, are there any, like, big anecdotes that you haven't, like, thrown out, that, like, just, like, fun moments on set or anything like that from the production?
22:27
Wes
Well, there are a couple, as you can see. This one right here, we're in the middle of the night out on Harford Road, right? It's like middle of the night. We're filming in the middle of the neighborhood. There's also a place out there called the holiday house. It's a bar. And normally the bikers and all sorts of people go there. It's a place, you know, like they say in a. It's wonderful life. It's a place where hard men get hard drinks and get drunk quick. So if you can see over my shoulder there, you see the guy in the baby doll mighty right there. That is Allen Wendell. Alan Wendell is a fantastic guy. He's about six foot four, older guy, played police officer there who like to wear baby doll nighties.
23:07
Wes
And he's standing out on the street in the middle of the night. And at one point, somebody walks up to him on the street and looks at him standing there wearing the nightie, looks around and he goes, are you in this? And one time, I'm dressed up as Frank. And this is, by the way, this is my robo cap that I wore in the movie. You can see it's right there. I still have it, but it doesn't quite look the same when I put it on. Now, that's a little bit baggier, but this is my robo cap. This is Frank's hat. Anyway, I'm sitting there wearing my leathers. We're doing our scenes in the back of the holiday house, and they're setting up in the back. And so Alan and I are sitting out front.
23:47
Wes
We each have a cup of coffee, and they've got the bar closed down. But this one guy comes shuffling on in. We'll call him Otis, if you're a fan of Andy Griffith. But Otis is looking a little wan and thin and gaunt these days. And he comes walking in and he's looking around and he looks at us sitting there. He looks back up at the bar and he goes, is the bar close? And I was like, yes. For a special meeting today. Are you here to join us? That guy left so much rubber off his sneakers as he turned and peeled out of there that it was crazy. And remember those two bikers that I was telling you about? Reaper and outcast? Well, my boots that I'm wearing in this scene, I left the laces untied because it was funnier. He was sloppier.
24:38
Wes
He was funnier. And they're hanging around the back of the holiday house for one of the scenes we're filming. And I go walking back there and they're like, hey, your boots are untied. Like, oh, yeah, I know. Frank's got it. You wouldn't wear them like that. Do you know why? Know why? Because they get caught up in the machinery and you'd get sucked down. It would rip you off the bike and tear off your limbs. Like we could tear off your limbs for this kind of an image. And I'm like, really great talking with you guys. I'm going to hang out over here for a while. So they did get cast as extras in the scene, and I learned a lesson about boots.
25:18
Wes
I never tied them up because, frankly, as Joseph Bologna says, trying to be Sid Caesar in my favorite year, my business, you don't cut funny.
25:28
Case
Yeah, no, yeah, no, you definitely don't want to cut funny, especially in a movie that is such an out there tour de force of comedic performances from people.
25:39
Wes
Yeah, it's like, we're not necessarily doing a documentary well, and no one is.
25:43
Case
Doing small performances, right.
25:46
Wes
Well, no performances. Selma Blair there wearing her chest that she wore for this. These prosthetic breasts that basically stand out to here. They were very realistic looking. Had the teamsters going nuts every time she'd come around. But frankly, I was more gaga of her when she showed up looking like Selma Blair with just the short, bobbed black haircut and the way she was. And we get on the elevator at flight three the first day. And I've interviewed celebrities. I used to work at radio, and people are people to me. And I'm happily married guy. But she sits there in that elevator and she suddenly looks overdevelop at me and goes, so you're the one playing my bow in this, huh? And she leans over into me and very calm and cool, I go, huh. Couldn't speak or anything.
26:37
Wes
But then when they put her in this wig and put her in these prosthetics and put her in all this stuff, I forget about that. And we're just having these great conversations, you know, she's got this really wicked dark sense of humor. She's very funny. Very funny. Well, there's a scene in the holiday house where she has to take these things and hit me upside the head with them.
26:56
Case
Oh, yeah.
26:57
Wes
They do this scene and I'm on. She's hit me with it. It's like getting hit with basically a couple of soccer bopper balloons with nipples on the end of each one. They finished the take and the first ad goes, you want to get a safety on that? John Waters goes, no, those things are too expensive to waste on Wes's head. They're like $50,000 to have those things made. Which was crazy, but, I mean, Selma might as well have had a foot and a half to two foot restraining order against anybody around her. It was like a force field against the real Selma Blair. She was wearing a parka, basically. And you know the scene. If you guys. You guys have seen the films. You know the scene in the nursing.
27:40
Sam
Yeah, yeah.
27:41
Wes
Do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around and Tracy picks up that water bottle. Now, do you know how she does that, right?
27:48
Case
In the context of the movie or in reality?
27:51
Wes
In reality. In the context of the movie, it's one. Yes.
27:55
Case
I don't know. I know the context of the movie. I'm not sure what the reality is.
27:59
Wes
Reality is they had a pair of basically underpants with a metal plate in them, which, by the way, just has to be really comfortable to wear around. Right.
28:10
Sam
I was thinking that.
28:11
Wes
Yeah. And then they had this super powerful magnet in the cabin of the bottles. When she goes down. Click. And she can stand up and lift it. So they had to test it out in the middle of flight three in Baltimore. So she's standing out in the parking lot and she raises up her skirt. And she goes down, click, picks that bottle up, and suddenly, huge applause from the gas station across the street. The guys are over there going, they're like, let's take this back inside. Yeah, okay.
28:40
Case
That's the kind of creativity I love hearing about on these episodes, because, like, when you were like, oh, it's metal plate. I'm like, so, like a magnet or something, and confirm, like, yeah, that's perfect.
28:49
Wes
I mean, just imagine if you don't take those things off and you go. Go to somebody's car or something like that, and you're picking up stuff left and right. A lot of fun stuff. A lot of fun stuff. Really enjoyed the shoot. Pete Papa George, who at one point plays the blind man in the movie, is also a musician. He's a guitar player. He goes around to all sorts of irish pubs in town, and he sings. And Pete's a good pal. And I. I told him, I said, we should bring your guitar with you. He goes, well, yeah, it's not in the car. I said, go get it. He said, what for? I said, we're going to go take your guitar by and we're going to go say hi to Chris. And he goes, well, I don't know if I want to impose.
29:29
Wes
I said, everybody's very friendly around. So went over, he grabs his guitar. I see Chris, and I say, hey, chris. Actually, before we even grabbed his guitar, I see Chris, and he'd been in there shooting, and he'd seen Pete. And I said, you know, Pete is an excellent guitarist, and he plays around town. He's hugely popular in the DC area. He goes, really? And then Chris looks over at him, goes, did you bring your guitar? And Pete's like, yeah, it's. The second person asks him, brought his guitar. He says, well, grab it. Bring it to my trailer. Pete goes. Grabs the guitar, heads the trailer. Now, I could have gone in with him, but I didn't because that was his moment, you know what I mean? And he went in, like, a couple of hours.
30:13
Wes
He and Chris just sat there and played and sang and chatted and yakked, and that was the kind of atmosphere it was. Tracy at one point said she loved Elvis Presley. Always wanted one of those TCB taking care of business things. So I reached out to Graceland and I ordered four of the necklaces, taking care of business necklaces. And I gave one to each member of the Stickles family, Chris, Selma, and Tracy. And I gave one to Johnny because Johnny was the leader of our gang. Now you see Dave Moretti and I were in the same gang together, right? We were all members of the apostles, and I was number eleven. Tracy ended up being apostle number twelve. So when we'd send notes to each other back and forth, we're like, hello there, fellow apostle.
31:01
Wes
So Dave is one of my fellow apostles, and we always will be. And I have to say, one of the very coolest things about having been in a John Waters movie is that you end up on his Christmas card list. If you're one of his main characters, you get an alliterative name and you don't get left off. You get these cards every year, and they're sometimes sacrilegious, sometimes just hysterical. A couple of times they've been ornaments. One of them was just disorder with his face on it. But my favorite one was the very first one we got the first year. And it's a clear ball that says, seasons greetings, John Waters written in red on the outside of it. And on the inside, a giant dead cockroach.
31:48
Wes
And I take that and I hang it right up underneath of the angel's skirt so the light will shine down on it. And it makes just so happy. Oh, man.
32:03
Case
Yeah. Yeah, that, That sounds like a John Waters kind of move.
32:08
Wes
It's awesome. It's awesome. So many, cool things along the way that I see this address come across every year, and it's like, ooh. And Kim's like, don't open it till I get home. She wants to see it, too. And some people put them online and put them up and show them and all this, but I don't do that. That's just a little something.
32:29
Case
Yeah.
32:30
Wes
In one year, it was a lottery. It was like a lotto ticket. You could scratch your eyes. But I didn't want to scratch it. I kept it as is.
32:39
Case
And this was a custom one. Not just like a lottery ticket?
32:42
Wes
No. He had them printed up and made it looks like a real lotto ticket. But it's a John Waters thing, and I could have won some really cool John Waters stuff. It could still be on there that I might have won really cool John Waters stuff, but I didn't want to scratch it off. The card itself meant too much to me to deface it, you know?
33:02
Case
See, now that's really cool. And I'm thinking about, like, what I could do if I custom printed lottery tickets like that for, like, some kind of, like, promotion for the show or something like, great.
33:14
Wes
And then you get people who won't use them because, like me, they're a nerd. And they're like, don't take it out of the package. It'll ruin it. Don't play with it. I know it's a toy, but keep it in the box. For God's sake, man.
33:28
Case
Just awesome stuff. Like, such a font of creativity, that man is.
33:32
Sam
Yeah.
33:33
Wes
And he may have another movie coming up. He's getting close to it. He had one he was going to do called fruitcake, which was really cool, and trying to get a movie greenlit. The sad fact of the matter is, because of Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake, he was not able to get another movie greenlit because he was not able to turn the contractual movie in the way he wanted it to. And it ended up losing money because it was NC 17 and the target audience didn't get a chance to come out and see it. Yeah, I mean, that's the dirty shame of all of it. This man's a legend. He's got his own pop.
34:08
Case
For listeners at home, Wes is bringing up one of the pop figurines of John Waters. We were talking about a man who has left a mark on the cultural zeitgeist of this nation.
34:18
Sam
For sure.
34:19
Wes
He's carrying a little pink flamingo, which is fine because you think of pink flamingos, but if he was carrying a chicken with its neck cut, that would be pink flamingos thing, too. But I love the fact that Divine actually, they followed that dog around for a while till it finally let out what John referred to as just this measly, sickly little turd. And then Divine ate it. But then later that night, Divine's calling up like the emergency room, going, am I going to die? But he's able to get people to do things for movies that they necessarily wouldn't do. Now, when you watch the dirty shame, did either of you watch it on the DVD?
34:56
Case
So I definitely watched the NC 17 version, but it was the Amazon download version. But I know a couple of the scene changes. I mean, for one thing, you're fat fuck Frank in it, but for another, there's quite a bit of penis. So I know which version I was looking at.
35:10
Wes
Yeah, there's. There's a bit. There's a bit. But there's also. The bottle scene is not in the neuter edition. They have to cut that portion. The thing about DVD is that it also has a documentary which runs almost as long as the movie itself. And it's called all the dirt on a dirty chain. And it is similar to what you've read about John Waters before. Have you ever read his book shock value where he talks about the beginnings of his career.
35:37
Case
I have not.
35:39
Wes
It's fantastic. It's a fun read. Well, verbally, half of this, all the dirt on a dirty shame tells a lot of those same stories. And there are different things in there. And they interview all the cast. So you see me looking like me as opposed to looking like Frank. And they filmed me while I was out in LA. I was visiting in LA, so they took me to some house. We're in the backyard doing the interview. A lot of the other folks did their interviews back in Baltimore, but I did mine out in Ladenhead, and there was somebody who kept doing landscaping right nearby, and they had to go pay the guy off to go come back another time. And they were talking about it and complaining about it, and they said, you know what?
36:23
Wes
There are people in LA who claim to be landscapers who have not had a real job in years. What they do is they follow the movie companies around, see where they're setting up, wait for them to start filming, then go to some yard where nobody's at the time and start doing loud lawn work so that the movie company will come over and pay them to stop for.
36:47
Case
Oh my God, that's wild.
36:49
Wes
People come home and see half their lawn mower, half their tree cut, and it's because these rogue landscapers are just following the movie companies around, making enough noise that they'll be paid to stop working.
37:03
Case
I have a friend who is a landscaper who, I could believe him doing that, like that seems like the kind of move, and he would feel very smart about it.
37:12
Wes
Well, my favorite thing that I got to say in there, which I thought was fun, was talking about all that. If I said, you learn about all sorts of different things, all sorts of sex acts in this movie. It's very educational. Like, I never knew that rim job equals divorce, so. But, you know, it was fun to do that. It's a fun little documentary, so if you ever get a chance to do it. And the thing is, you can find the dvd fairly inexpensively now, we used to show it sometimes at magfest at a convention. After my late night panel, we'd sort of adjourn. Everything would shut down, and then we'd break out a bottle of scotch and a bunch of us would sit around and watch the movie. Movie. And I wouldnt just watch the movie, though.
37:59
Wes
I would enjoy watching other people watching the movie because I knew what was going to be coming up. So watching the expressions of people as certain things came up, I thought was pretty hysterical.
38:10
Case
Thats awesome man. Yeah. This movie has such a cult following now and its really wild to see this just crazy work that has lingered on and touches people.
38:22
Wes
Yeah, well you got to be careful what you say when you start talking about touching people because logo, the slogan of this was let's go, sex. And there were buttons that were going around all the time, people walking around. We put on those buttons, let's go sex.
38:38
Case
And you know, Wes, honestly, that sounds like a pretty good idea. I think we should probably take a break. And while that break is going on, why don't we all just go sex? Let's go Sexton.
38:55
Sam
Are you tired of watching your beloved characters being tortured by careless authors?
38:59
Case
Are you sick of feeling like they could have swapped out all of the painful action and the plot would remain untouched? Subscribe to books that the fortnightly book review podcast. Focusing on fictional depictions of trauma.
39:10
Wes
We assume that the characters reactions are reasonable and focus on how badly or well they were served by their authors.
39:17
Case
Join us for our minor character spotlights, main character discussions, and favorite non traumatic things in the dark.
39:22
Wes
Books we love. Find us on Spotify, iTunes, Google Play.
39:26
Sam
Or wherever you get your podcasts.
39:28
Case
And we're back. So, Wes, thank you so much for bringing all this insight into the actual shoot of this movie. It seemed like just a wild time, like a ton of fun. Obviously, there's the production hurdles that are associated with any kind of low budget movie. Like, this was only 15 million, and then, you know, the fact of the subject matter kind of not playing that well with censors at the time and sort of like, screwing it over. However, I did want to bring some notes that I had. So I referenced this book on screenplays that Waters has a chapter in, and it has stuck with me more than any other chapter in that book, even before we talked about this episode.
40:04
Case
And even aside from the fact that, like, you know, again, hometown hero who I have met and who I randomly seen on flights that I was taking out of BWI, and like, you know, like, if you're a Maryland person, you're like, you know who John Waters is? But the chapter he wrote on a dirty shame I always find really fascinating. And so I just kind of wanted to talk about the John Waters process.
40:24
Wes
Tell us the name of the book again, because I think we're all going to want to check that out.
40:27
Case
Yeah, so the book is screenplays by David S. Cohen, and the subtitle is how 25 screenplays made it to theater near you for better or worse. And so there's a large portion of it that is about the actual selling process of a screenplay. So a lot of them are about spec scripts, and then some of them are about the actual various things that sort of led to people like getting a movie green lit, but the water section, which is directly on a dirty shame, I thought was really interesting. So he talks about his general writing process, which is that he is very disciplined. He opens every day writing from eight to noon, and that's just how he is. And, like, everyone knows not to, like, bother him during that time.
41:03
Case
But then when talking about actually, like, developing a movie, he kind of goes from the process differently than I would expect from most people. And it's one that I really love, which is that he'll go to the neighborhood where he wants to shoot a thing or to set the location of a thing, you know, if it's a little bit more abstract in that whole thing. But at least, like, this is where it's supposed to be set in the vibe. Yeah, the vibe, exactly. And he tries to feel out the genre of the piece and honestly starts with a title. And I love that approach to screenwriting. So when I write stage pieces, I always do a set design before I write anything beyond, like, just a basic outline because I need to know, like, how I'm going to describe the blocking.
41:43
Case
Just so I know it's possible. If I don't have that, then I can't conceive of what I'm working on. And I love that title comes first approach to it all. And then I found this really interesting, which is that he writes longhand. He doesn't actually type up any of his stuff. He just has notebooks all over his house that he. That he'll just write notes and then we'll cut it up directly and paste it into a notebook that he gives his assistant to type up, basically, just.
42:08
Wes
Like the unabomberization kind of like that.
42:12
Case
And he complains that airports are annoying for him because flying, he can't bring scissors with him because it's a necessary part of his writing process. And I just love that approach to things. He actually makes physical cuts to his script. But then what I found really interesting also is that he doesn't write spec scripts. When going in to try to get money for his pieces, he goes into pitch meetings with a detailed treatment that will have dialogue and have a lot of information. Like dirty Shame was a 17 page long treatment, but he won't have the script. He goes in and he comes with a fake ad campaign that he'll do for the piece. And I thought, this is fascinating. So he'll come with, like, all right, here is how you could sell this movie.
42:53
Case
Even if they're not going to use this ad campaign, he'll bring a pitch deck.
42:57
Wes
He is selling the movie. He's running an ad for the people that are making it, right.
43:01
Case
And showing them how they can sell it, that it is a sellable product. So, for example, with this, the tagline he had for it was, what happened to Sylvia Stickles, Washington? A dirty shame. And had this whole ad campaign laid out from that sort of premise so that the execs can see like, oh, yeah, this is a marketable film because we can see very literally how it's marketed. And then once he's convinced them to go for it, that's when he writes the script. I find that a really fascinating process that honestly speaks to me. I'm like, oh, that's a really good idea. That all makes sense.
43:36
Wes
It's fantastic. His book writing is very different, I would imagine, because when he sits down to write, it's not always the screenplays. He's got so many wonderful books. He did Carsick, the book about him hitchhiking, and he literally hitchhiked across America. I forget what the name of the band was, but there was a band driving down the road in the middle of the country, in the middle of nowhere, and they go, that guy looks kind of like John Waters, who's hitchhiking back there. And they're like, could it be.
44:03
Case
I don't know.
44:04
Wes
They went back, picked them up, and it was John Waters. He rode with them for several hundred miles. They had a great time. But, I mean, isn't that, doesn't that seem like, in this day and age, a good way for John.
44:14
Case
Waters to die or for the band to die? One or the other.
44:18
Wes
Need a band or to die? One or the other. He, he rolled the dice well on that one. It came up sevens, so.
44:26
Case
Right. I mean, he takes some interesting swings, but he. One thing he also emphasizes is never turn in your first draft. And this is a line that I thought was really fascinating, which is keep rewriting until you start putting back in what you already cut. That's when you know it's finished. Where? When it's like, okay, well, maybe I should add the scene back in. Oh, no. If I'm doing that, then, like, I'm definitely done.
44:44
Wes
Like, yeah, well, and that's the thing. You got to kill your baby. Sometimes I remember the novelist Peter Straub. The horror novelist Peter Straub did some things with Stephen King. And I got a chance to interview him once. And I was talking to him. He read one of my stories, and he liked it. And he said, you got to go through, you know, you'll cut some of this down. And he said, I suggest you get a little glass of wine. Just enough to just slightly anesthetize it. Not so that you're drunk. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. So that you can kill your babies. And give yourself a little distance from your own story and be ruthless. You can always put some stuff back in if you need to.
45:25
Wes
But the quickest way through the story sometimes is the quickest way sometimes people allow their editors to do that. But John seems to have his own internal self editor. There are other people who edit him for all other different reasons. As we have seen with the review boards and things of that sort. One of my favorite stories about a dirty shame. Because he wanted to get back to the kind of movie he used to make. When he was making female trouble and polyester and pink flamingos. And he had started doing stuff like hairspray and cereal. Mom and crybaby. And it was a lot more mainstream. And his parents were actually getting to the point where they were kind of proud of him. And he told his mother, he says, well, mother, I'm making a movie that's very similar to my old films.
46:12
Wes
It's called a dirty shame. It's about sex addicts. Will you be coming out to see it? She goes, yeah, unless I die first. I guess so. But they were both there, his mother and his father. Very buttoned up. Up very nice. They were at the premiere at. The senator showed up at the museum afterwards. This fine Baltimore Museum of Art. Where we had the party later on. And that one was a little more sedate and a little more formal. Even though it was in Baltimore, than the one that was in New York City. The one that in New York City is. Mother and father were not there so.
46:51
Case
We could get away with sweaty, glittery people.
46:54
Wes
I don't. That was not John's idea. That was just. People were like, oh, John, water's coming. He got the glitter in this way.
47:04
Case
Yeah. So it makes me think of this note that they made about this movie specifically. That while the NC 17 rating was bad from the standpoint of recouping investment. It was, however, protective for the production. Because unlike pink flamingos, which actually was unrated for a really long time, being explicitly in C 17 kind of immunized the production from attacks by the indecency crusaders. Because it's like, well, what are you going to say? It is already rated not just r, it's rated NC 17. It's super closed off from everyone. What are you going to do? It's not like being exposed to kids.
47:39
Wes
In a way, it's really too bad, because the neuters in the film very much are a reflection of those people who are the decency crusaders. Yeah, everybody's got their own big bag of neuroses case. Everybody. It isn't just the people who are talking about the sex addicts. It's the ones that are railing against it, who really want to join the party but are afraid to.
48:02
Case
Man, there. There certainly comes off like, this, like, tone in the movie of like, yep. Waters is probably pretty familiar with these types of people who are just going to rave about, like, how much a thing is a dirty show.
48:15
Wes
Shame. Well, the thing is John coming up with some of these things, even some of those things for John, he was like, ooh, you know, there's a scene where they roll a thing across the floor. A big can of something, rather, bounces off Selma. Bounces off a thing, rolls across the floor. I slip on it, knock something else over at Selma, and it hits her in the head, and she go. Turns back into a sex addict. Well, the scene. The scene where I slipdeze in the little shopping mart, I went over and cut under my arm one of the things, and it put a slice there, and it was blood, and it was bleeding. They were like, is everything all right? I said, yeah, it's okay. Just a little bit. And I went like this lifted up with the blood.
48:55
Wes
And John was like, ew. You know, I grossed out John Waters. So that was pretty cool.
49:01
Case
That is a testament that very few people could ever do.
49:08
Wes
I remember he did a story, an article once, I think was in Spy magazine, and then it was in one of his books later. I think it was a gathering of some of his short stories. But it's called 101 things I hate. And it's a story of his day. And as he's going through his day, every time he comes across something he hates with a passion, little parentheses with the number in it until he gets up to 101. And one of them was Brussels sprouts, which he called little green balls from hell. And I said, do you still hate Brussels sprouts? And he said, no. Someone took it as a challenge. And I found out it's all in the way they're prepared sometimes I like them. So he has an open mind, at least for Brussels.
49:51
Case
I was gonna say, let just introduce him to the way my wife prepares him, and I think we could change his mind.
49:57
Wes
I know somebody did. Somebody convinced him to palate. One of those little green balls from hell that he used to talk about. Some of this stuff just makes me laugh out loud. If you get a chance to read shock value, I'd say, definitely, that's a must read. That's the one of the first must reads. If you want to learn about John Waters and how he began in this business, read shock value. And if you want to hear a documentary that talks about it's a lot of fun. Get a dirty shame on dvd and watch all the dirt on a dirty shame. You'll hear from some of the original Dreamlanders coming back in there. Mary Vivian Pierce made a small little role, even though she'd had a bit of a stroke. But she still made a. An appearance in a dirty shame. Mink stole.
50:41
Wes
Counterculture icon. Mink stole. Loves Maxwell House coffee and always teased me about my frou flavored coffees. And my fans, Mister fancy coffee, because I love things with a little hazelnut or a little something here. I got something with a hazelnut and raspberry. And she's like, just give me the Maxwell house. I love her. I got to go out and hang out with her in LA. And she took me around to a couple of places. We had dinner. She is remarkable. I love her. And I loved working with John. I go to see him live, speaking whenever I can. We're not like friends. I would love that. I would love to be a friend. But the fact of the matter is, I am, I guess, one of the next best things. I'm always going to be. His fat fuck friend will always have triple f.
51:29
Wes
Yeah.
51:30
Case
Or quadruple fat fuck. Frank the fan.
51:34
Wes
Yeah. And this hat, by the way. This hat right here is actually. I had to get a separate, different one, because the original hat that I wore for the first start of the shoot belonged to Johnny guy, who was one of the prop masters on the set. And Johnny was in the wire, and he used this hat on the wire like this, open like this. So if you watch the season two of the wire and you see this hat, it's the very same hat, because Van Smith, the ugly expert, the dirt expert for John Waters, who sadly passed and greatly missed. He walked up one day, he's trying to figure out what Frank is going to wear, and he sees him over there. And he walks up and he snatches the hat right off top of his head, and he goes, hey.
52:24
Wes
And he goes, I'm going to be using this for the next month and a half. And he takes this robo cap, and it becomes Frank's. And since it was open in the wire, I just buttoned it up, because to me, it looked like a cross between a skull cap and the kind of thing that hunts hall used to wear in the bowery. Boys, there's an old.
52:48
Case
I don't know the Bowery, I know the name. But that's all I could say about in the 1930s.
52:54
Wes
And they went all the way through the fifties, and they were huge through there. Hunts hall and Leo Gorsey. And today it's forgotten. But I remember watching them, the old black and white dead end kids. There were the dead end kids. There are a bunch of other names. But he had that hat that he wore turned up like that. So I remembered that. And I did the same thing with Frank. Now, Frank wore that hat. I. He also wore a bandana with a pair of goggles on it. That van came up with Van coming out and covering me in filth and dirt. Van would take people. You ever see somebody smile at John Waters film and it looks like their teeth are just disgusting?
53:36
Wes
Before every take, he'd dry their mouth out and make them chew up doritos or potato chips, and they'd have all this stuff still stuck in their teeth. And when you film it looks.
53:46
Case
That explains so much, actually.
53:49
Wes
Yeah, he was the filth expert. He was John's dirt expert. And he. The look of the films from the very beginning, all the way through a dirty shame, have a lot to do with him. Also, Vincent Periano, who did all the set design. And now in a dirty shame, what does that entail? That entails walking around this neighborhood here with a lot of putty and a lot of things that match Barkley and putting breasts and vaginas and things of that sort into the trees that make it look like, you know, where a branch had been grown and cut off. But they're very explicit, and I don't know if they left those up there when they left the neighborhood. You know, what is that going to do to the property values? You know, it's a lovely house. It's got central air conditioning and vagina trees.
54:39
Case
I'm going to be honest, I didn't even really think about it. I just assumed, like, oh, they just, like, happened to find, like, the perfect trees. And now that. Now that you're saying. I'm like, no, that. That makes more sense.
54:49
Wes
Yeah. They go out there with these bushes, and they carve bushes into giant penises and balls, and then they leave the neighborhood. And it reminds me of the scene with mink stole. They're cutting some of these things out going. The plants are growing all dirty. You know, imagine that's the people in the neighborhood going out later on and having to neuter those trees just a little bit. And the dog's looking over the tree going, man, I feel you. The same thing to me.
55:28
Case
Man. Yeah. This is a wild movie, and I'm so glad that we had the chance to bring you on and talk about it for a bit before we wrap up. Do you have anything you want to talk about that you've got coming up that, you know, give your plugs? Like, what have you got going on?
55:44
Wes
Well, the capital season just ended next year, hopefully I'm back for my 25th year as the announcer for the Washington Capitals, for the arena announcer. We've got Farragut forward coming out sometime this summer. So if you want to see one of the very best Star Trek fan films that have ever been made, that's we're going to be wanting to watch. I have a film called Sanctuary, short film called Sanctuary that's going to be making its debut at the Holly Shorts Film Festival and start hitting festivals all around town, maybe filming something a little bit later this summer. And right now we are in the midst of a big charity drive. It is called voiceopalooza. If you go to voiceopalooza.com, you'll be able to find out what you can do there.
56:29
Wes
We have video game voice actors, streamers from hundreds of streamers from all around the globe that are putting together these fun activities. We're doing fun for funds for the Alzheimer's association. So we're going to try to drop the gloves on Alzheimer's. I've lost my mother, my grandmother, have an aunt who's suffering from it. Everybody's been touched by this, and we are fighting back, and every little bit helps. So if you get a chance, if you want to just make a donation, go to voiceopalooza.com. But we're going to be streaming all the way through mid June, and we're going to have things like the elder scrolls online going to be coming out and talking about the new gold road expansions coming out, which I do have some voices in. Fallout 76 has some new stuff coming out, which I'm also reprising.
57:20
Wes
The protectrons and a couple of new characters in that. And there are some other things in the pipeline game wise that I can't talk about right now, but. But I love what I do case sync myself and disappear into a character that isn't me. And I love it when, like in fallout right now, people are. It's been very hot because of the tv series and people are suddenly realizing that I play probably about 35 different characters in Fallout and they didn't know that they were all me. And that makes me happier than anything, makes me so happy to be able to do so many different characters that people don't know. Are you. I also am doing a class. I teach video game voice acting through theater lab DC.
58:06
Wes
So if you go to theaterlab DC or go to theaterlab.org, i think it is, you can look for the class. They only take ten per semester. They start again in June. And I've had students from all around the globe come in. We just went out to Amsterdam to do a celebration for the 10th anniversary of Elder Scrolls online and I was shocked to see how many people in the EU are huge video game fans and still follow this stuff. We had a line. Tommy Earl Jenkins and Alex Wilton Reagan were there with me, and we had a line of about a thousand people lining up just to get autographs on elder scrolls online stuff. And being in Amsterdam, dude, I would have loved to have stopped at one of the coffee shops. You know, they're. They're not about coffee.
58:57
Wes
If you watch getting a pulp fiction, you'll know what a coffee shop is over there. But I couldn't go in there because I had to use my brain and I'm pretty certain that I wouldn't be able to after that. But I did get myself a hot, fresh stroop waffle made in Amsterdam, which was just delightful. And I came home with a ton of Amsterdam Gouda cheese of all different types. And the shia gores character in me who goes, cheese for everyone. Cheese for no one except for me.
59:35
Case
God, I have often described you as living your best life and just constantly in awe of. Of the existence that you have carved out for yourself.
59:42
Wes
You know, you just follow your heart and let your head set the directions and realize that in this life, if you don't follow what you love and you wait for someone else to bring it to you, what are you waiting for? Go for it. There's a lot of rejection in everything case, right? Yeah, we get rejected all the time. You get turned down, you get shot down. But that doesn't mean you don't get right back up again. You know, I love to live. The motto of, like, galaxy Quest, never give up.
01:00:12
Case
Never surrender.
01:00:12
Wes
Never surrender. You know, or certain songs, I get knocked down, but I get up again. Oh, you're never going to keep me down. Although sometimes down feels comfy. I'll stay here for a little while and I'll lick my wounds. But then you kind of get back up and people look at the successes that somebody has, and, dude, that's just the tip of a shiny iceberg coming out of the water. Because underneath miles and miles and miles of experience and rejection and pain and heartbreak and whatever the fact of the matter is, you do it because you love it. You have to. You have to. And if you love it, not a day is wasted on your journey.
01:00:51
Case
Jeff, that is great advice and honestly, a thing that perpetuates this show. Like, we love doing the show, and it's been a big part of why we've been able to stick it out for now, 165 episodes. So, Wes, thank you for coming on to this one. Where can people find you and follow you?
01:01:07
Wes
If you go onto Twitter, I'll call it that.
01:01:11
Case
For the record, we all call it that. No one calls it anything else.
01:01:14
Sam
Yeah.
01:01:15
Wes
Thank you very much. And if I'm, if you're looking for me on Instagram, it's just Wes Johnson, and I'm under Wes Johnson actor on Facebook and on TikTok also. Wes Johnson actor so those are the places you can find me. And I hope you do, and I hope you go by voiceofthpelooza.com and join us one of these streams that we're going to be doing over the next month. Seriously, come in and have some fun. We're going to have some laughs. And if you can even donate the amount of a cup of coffee, it all builds up. It all helps somebody who's going through the worst. I mean, it's the worst thing in the world to lose someone before you lose them, to be a caregiver for some of these people. And you know what?
01:01:55
Wes
We're getting close case because they've come up with a medication now that if you give it early enough, it will help keep somebody themselves and retain their memory and who they are for longer.
01:02:06
Sam
Yeah.
01:02:07
Case
Well, again, Wes, thank you so much for coming on the show. People should check out voiceoplooza, people should check out your class. People should check out all the stuff you've been working on. Let me know next time you're doing the magfest screening, because I would definitely want to be there for that one.
01:02:20
Wes
Absolutely. And you and I have to hit the celebrity deli at some point. Yes.
01:02:24
Case
Yes. In the meantime, Sam, where can people find you and follow you? You.
01:02:28
Sam
They can find me occasionally when I remember our discord exists there and they can find me here. And if they have any complaints about. I don't think I say anything that could, you know, actually be a complaint tonight.
01:02:42
Case
Well, I'm sure there's some decency crusaders who are coming after us for this episode.
01:02:47
Wes
I mean, yeah, tight knots in some panties out there right now, but, like.
01:02:53
Sam
They can complain to you.
01:02:55
Case
Yeah, that's true. If they want to come for someone related to the show, they should come for me. On most of the platforms, you can find me at Caseakin, except for Instagram, where I am holding on to my aim screen name from high school for dear life, and that is quetzalcoatl five because I was a pretentious mythology nerd and also a legion of superheroes nerd. So find me there. That way you can also find me on Ko Fi or whatever it is. Ko fi.
01:03:21
Wes
Is it Amsterdam coffee?
01:03:23
Case
You know what? It would better if it is, but yeah, if people want to directly support the production of this show, find my Ko fi account. So ko dash fi.com caseakin, you can actually become a subscriber and you will get shoutouts on the show. Like Micah McCaw, former guest of the show, who is awesome and has become my first subscriber. So that's pretty dope. But yeah, you can subscribe, you can get to suggest episode topics, you know, get shoutouts on social media. So that's a cool thing you can do. You can also find the Discord server that Sam discussed either in the show notes or at our website, certainpov.com, and you can come interact with us directly. It's a really fun time.
01:04:01
Case
The activity on the Discord server has been way up there without going so far that it's, like, hard to really track the conversation. I find some Discord servers are just too active, but ours is a good pace. I'm really happy to see all the threads on favorite music, discussions about video games, all the comic book conversations that have been going on, and the movie chats have gotten really good on there. So come check it out. Come hang out with us.
01:04:23
Wes
Us.
01:04:24
Case
We don't bite unless you want us to, in which case we. We can talk about it with consent.
01:04:28
Wes
Always.
01:04:28
Case
It's always safe and with consent. That's the big part.
01:04:33
Wes
There'S one website that I want to put together that I've got the URL for, and it's called fake movie coffee.com. And I want to start putting together clips of every film or tv show where somebody comes walking in to carrying what are obviously empty cups of coffee.
01:04:55
Case
There's no way to this thing.
01:04:56
Sam
Yeah, you could probably make like a twelve hour compilation of the Gilmore girls alone.
01:05:03
Wes
Yeah. I mean, I feel like Leonardo camp every time going fake movie. Yeah, yeah.
01:05:10
Case
It'd be like the Mister skin but for specifically physics defying coffee cups.
01:05:14
Wes
Yeah, it's like coffee porn of some sort.
01:05:19
Case
But yeah. So you can find all of that@certainpov.com. You'll find more episodes of this show. You'll find other great shows. I'm going to shout out books that burn, specifically this time. Books that burn is a great conversation about the characters inside books and the terrible trauma that authors put them through from the perspective of the characters. And so it's a really fun literary discussion podcast. So check that one out. Great time. They've been on the show before, talking about bed knobs and broomsticks. So if you want to go back to that episode, you can, you know, check them all out.
01:05:51
Wes
So fun, guys. I really appreciate you having me on. I love talking about this stuff and movies.
01:05:56
Case
YouTube. No, I love having you on. I wish we could have you on for every episode. Like next time, Sam, what have we got coming up next time?
01:06:04
Sam
Well, next time we'll be talking about Highlander two, the quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.
01:06:12
Wes
Thanks for listening to certain point of views. Another pass podcast. Don't miss an episode.
01:06:18
Case
Just subscribe and review the show on iTunes. Just go to certainpov.com dot.
01:06:25
Sam
Another pass is a certain pov production. Our hosts are Sam Alicea and case Aiken. The show is edited by Jeff Moonan. Our logo and episode art is by case Aiken. Our intro theme is by Vin Macri, and our outer theme is by Matt Brogan.
01:06:42
Case
Cpov certainpov.com.