Another Pass at Star Trek: Generations

Case and Sam are joined by Hope Wyatt from Mind Brain Movies (https://www.youtube.com/@Mindbrainmovies) to send off both the cast of Star Trek's Original Series AND the Enterprise-D! Tune in for this discussion of Star Trek: Generations!

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Overview

 In the Podcast Discussion meeting titled "Another Pass at Star Trek Generations," the hosts engaged in a detailed critique of the film "Star Trek Generations," focusing on uniform inconsistencies, character development, and the subplot involving Data's emotion chip. They analyzed key interactions between Kirk and Picard, critiqued the final fight scene, and proposed ways to enhance character dynamics and plot coherence, including better integration of Data's subplot. The discussion included creative pitch ideas for tying in elements from previous Star Trek episodes, improving pivotal scenes like the destruction of the Enterprise, and maximizing the potential of the Nexus concept while enhancing Kirk and Picards collaboration. The meeting concluded with a recap of improvement suggestions, a reflection on the film's significance within the Star Trek franchise, and a teaser for the next episode's topic.

Notes

Star Trek Generations Discussion(00:00 - 15:00)

●      Podcast hosts discuss Star Trek Generations movie

●      Critique of uniform inconsistencies in the film

●      Debate on character development and plot elements

●      Discussion of Data's emotion chip subplot

Movie Analysis and Improvement Ideas(15:00 - 30:00)

●      Examination of Kirk and Picard's interaction in the Nexus

●      Critique of the final fight scene and its relevance

●      Suggestions for improving character dynamics and plot connections

●      Discussion on integrating Data's emotion subplot better

Pitch Ideas for Improving the Movie(30:00 - 45:00)

●      Proposals to tie in previous Star Trek episodes (e.g., 'The Inner Light')

●      Suggestions to improve the Enterprise destruction scene

●      Ideas for better utilizing the Nexus concept

●      Pitches for enhancing Kirk and Picard's teamwork

Final Thoughts and Wrap-up(45:00 - 62:86)

●      Recap of main improvement ideas for the movie

●      Discussion on balancing action and character development

●      Reflections on the movie's place in the Star Trek franchise

●      Closing remarks and preview of next episode topic

Transcription

00:00
Case
It, it could have been any two guys. Like, it doesn't have to be Kirk and Picard. And in fact, it's weird that it's Kirk and Picard because, like, they're guys who are older. Like, Kirk's the older of the two, but, like, they're both older guys in a fight with another older guy, you know, so it's not like the most dynamic of fight sequences, but like, it's also not a scene that like, you, like, you could do such a more dynamic thing if they were like captaining a ship, you know, like, that's the thing they're good at. They are the captains of ships. They are not like the Special Forces, like, character. This is not a Reacher episode, right?

00:33
Hope
And then like, have them fight over techniques like, well, you know, in this instance I would do this. And he's like, well, then I would do this maneuver and like, kind of banter back and forth like that.

00:43
Case
Like have a sequence where they're both like on the bridge of a ship and like Picard pitches, like, doing the thing. And Kirk is like, what is that? And Picard is like, oh, it's. It's this thing. They call it the Picard maneuver. Welcome to certain POV's. Another Pass podcast with Case and Sam where we take another look at movies that we find fascinating but flawed. Let's see how we could have fixed them. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Another Pass podcast. I'm Case Aiken and as always, I'm joined by my coast, Sam Alicea.

01:21
Sam
Hi.

01:22
Case
And Sam, I feel like today is a good time to have like an iconic meeting between two respective but very similar franchises, if you will. So today, coming over from the Jaguar Sharks podcast network show series, however you would describe the multi production fee that is Jaguar Sharks. We've got hope.

01:45
Hope
Hey, it's Hope. I'm so glad to be here. Yay.

01:51
Case
Yeah, I'm so glad to actually have you on this side of the aisle. That's not right. That makes it sound like we have like a big difference when really, like, we're very synergistic in how we approach a lot of things.

02:01
Hope
I was about to say, I thought we got along.

02:05
Sam
We're very glad to meet you, Nemesis.

02:07
Hope
What?

02:09
Sam
I didn't even know we had rivals.

02:12
Case
It's a delight to meet the competition. No, no, I mean, like, you're coming from Jaguar Sharks, which has a myriad number of productions that you are a part of, multiple of them and some of them are very similar to the basic ethos of this show. Although we have a running joke that another pass is Film Rescue on hard mode because we are not allowed to hypothesize about things that were not realistic at the time of production. Meanwhile, Film Rescue is another pass, but with a two drink minimum. Although today I think because they're recording.

02:47
Hope
Have it on st. Like we.

02:50
Case
We are recording on. On. On 420 and so there, you know, there's a vibe that this episode is going to have. I'm just gonna throw that.

02:58
Sam
Did everyone leave cookies out for Snoop Dogg? Because you have to. If you didn't, that's probably why your computer was giving you issues.

03:04
Hope
Case I need to get the Snoop Dogg Martha cookbook. Just saying, like, yeah, you know, this.

03:12
Sam
Recipe is going to be amazing.

03:13
Hope
Oh, yeah. Like three from the couple I've seen. I'm just like, why do I not have this in my body right now?

03:21
Case
Well, and that's perfect for today's movie because say what you will about the franchise, it's while for many, like a science fiction wonderland, it also is a trippy, weird series coming from some a 60s hippie. So today we are talking about a Star Trek movie.

03:39
Sam
Oh, and a Star Trek no.

03:42
Hope
And a Star Trek movie.

03:43
Case
It is the Star Trek Iest of Star Trek movies. Movies. Today we are talking about the meeting of the two captains. We are talking about Star Trek Generations.

03:53
Hope
Oh, gosh. Yeah. Dude, when you told me were picking this one, I was like, why's he gonna do this to my man?

04:00
Case
I know. Well, you know, it's because, like, I listened to an episode that you all were doing over on your channel about Star Trek. I believe it was Star Trek 5.

04:09
Hope
Yeah, yeah.

04:10
Case
And I was just like, I like talking about Star Trek and we haven't talked about Generations yet.

04:14
Hope
It's true. No, but like I was telling you before we got on here, I was like, I'm so conflicted because. Yes, like, I would probably say that. Like were saying it's like a middle of the road movie. But Sir Patrick Stewart is literally my man. Like, I just bought his memoir and everything. Like, love that man. And also, I was showing you my Malcolm McDowell tattoo.

04:40
Case
Right.

04:41
Hope
It has my too many.

04:43
Sam
No.

04:43
Case
Amazing cast. When, like, also this is the Star Trek movie that has, like, a big Whoopi Goldberg like, role. And, like, that's pretty dope. Like, that's dope. You know, there's a lot going for this movie. It's also the one on the Enterprise D, which is, you know, the show Enterprise. Like, how cool is that? That we're actually spending some time. Now that said, the Enterprise D is a silly goddamn ship. I love it, but it is a ship. Like this movie has the scenes where like when they're evacuating, where all the families are coming up and you're like, why? Why are full families on a ship that is in like constant battle scenarios like, what are we doing here, people? But it's cool to see the D. Like actually in a movie.

05:20
Case
Like having movie lighting, having, you know, like this, the, you know, the widescreen treatment. Like it's fun to see it.

05:27
Hope
No, for sure.

05:28
Case
One thing, and I'm just going to lead off with this one because it is the thing that bugs me so goddamn much about this movie.

05:35
Hope
Let it rip, dude.

05:37
Case
The uniforms. The uniforms. I. I find I am so frustrated by the uniform situation in this movie because Star Trek in general is really good about their uniforms. It's a little absurd how many uniform iterations we see in the series, but at least there's usually rules for who's wearing what at any given time. And this movie throws them all out the goddamn window in a way that the show Deep Space Nine happening concurrently does not. And in fact has very strict rules for like how the types of uniforms are being worn. And that makes me really frustrated. So like in Deep Space Nine, the TNG style, full body color with like black trim at the top is in use on specific ships and when they are at Starfleet Headquarters. So like Cisco wears that uniform in all those situations consistently throughout the entire series.

06:28
Case
Meanwhile, when they are on space station, they are in the more jumpsuit style version that they wear in Deep Space Nine where it is the black jumpsuit and then the colored like upper trim on their shoulders.

06:38
Hope
Yeah.

06:39
Case
Within this like gray, purple kind of like turtleneck underneath it. And so but there's very strict rules for like when they're wearing what and then like Voyager they're wearing that, you know, that jumpsuit style uniform. But you could make an argument that they are in a shakedown cruise that they are not specifically like in the. The like fine uniforms that would be like in vogue or like in use like when they're in the main stuff. And then we've seen in like Star Trek lower decks, like a consistent use of like certain ships have certain uniforms in use at a time. And like I like having that kind of concept that like depending on the type of mission that you're on would be wearing different uniforms that would be more appropriate for the type of task.

07:15
Sam
Right.

07:15
Case
And I. That all Makes sense. So this movie doesn't make a goddamn lick of it. Like, they go back and forth between uniform types for no reason at any given time. And it gets like insane because characters who will switch over to the deep space 9 style uniform will then switch back to it at later points and. And in the same scene. So it's not like they're coming from. It's not like, oh, well, I was on this type of mission, so I was wearing this. Like, I was working in engineering, so I was wearing the jumpsuit versus now I'm like in the briefing room and I'm supposed to be wearing, like, my dresser dressier uniform, not like my full dress uniform, but whatever. But they don't do any of that and it drives me fucking insane.

07:54
Case
And it's just because they're switching over and they had only, like, they wanted to, like, make these uniforms work, but, like, there was, like, issues in terms of, like, wardrobe and, like, what they had available. So, like, I. I just don't understand it. I just don't fucking understand it. Like, just. Just use the goddamn costumes. This movie was made right after the show ended. Like, you had the costumes.

08:13
Sam
Well, it kind of makes me feel like, you know, like when you're watching a show, like, like an Asian show and someone, like, basically joins a new school, but they're wearing this school uniform from the school before. That's what it felt like. Some people in the background were doing like, oh, I haven't gotten, like, my new dress uniform, so I have to wear this from my old ship, like, kind of thing.

08:34
Case
Right?

08:35
Sam
I was. It was very distracting. I was like, uniform is way different than everyone else's in this scene.

08:41
Hope
I mean, you could have totally gone with the ongoing quote unquote joke of they come in Tuesday.

08:47
Case
Well, yeah, but here's the thing. If everyone was slowly switching over to the new style uniform, that would work. But some characters switch back and that's where it. Where it gets kind of crazy. So there's like, no, like, consistent logic in terms of, like, who's wearing what type of uniform. Also because it's in the same scenes, they'll be in different ones. And I can only feel like it was like, well, they wanted them to look visually distinct from each other and they had these uniforms. So it's like, okay, well, this way at least, like, when Picard and Riker are talking to each other, they'll switch which one is in what style uniform. But at least that way they're not both in the same one. So they can have different style uniforms going in those scenes.

09:23
Hope
Well, Riker had to be in his one uniform because how else is he supposed to lift his leg up so high over a chair and sit down? Okay, like, right.

09:31
Case
I mean, like, and that's the thing, like, where, like, on the other hand, it is petty to like, complain about this thing when we are getting like the classic Star Trek, you know, Enterprise D set with like, them in what looks like the classic uniforms. Like, the shift to the DS9 style wasn't a big shift. It was a jumpsuit with like the. The colors inverted. But it still feels pretty similar in terms of style versus then the later movies all shift into like the much more militaristic looks that we get, starting with the first contact going forward. So at least this one feels more like a Next Gen movie as opposed to what Star Trek, the Wrath of Khan also did. You know, like, where we get this, like, more militarized, like Second Wave after that point.

10:15
Case
You know, the same way, like the Motion picture feels more like a Star Trek the Original series TV show, but as a movie. This feels more like Next Gen, but as a movie in that regard.

10:26
Hope
Yeah. No, I mean, fair. I. Dude, I feel like I'm gonna have to reel you in at some point because you're just gonna go on a uniform tangent for like the rest of the damn episode.

10:36
Case
That's why I try to like, cut it off right there. So, like, we're good. Like, I'm happy to move on.

10:42
Hope
Like, if you want, we can dive in. We will have a thesis. We'll write a thesis about this. We'll take it to the. You're so.

10:50
Case
I'm sure considering what Star Trek is, that those theses already exist.

10:55
Hope
Yeah, that's true.

10:56
Sam
Yeah. I'm sure there's somewhere out there in the universe, there's probably a YouTube video about it with visual aids and some guy pointing at it.

11:03
Hope
I just love the passion behind just the simple uniform. It's fantastic.

11:07
Case
I know, I know. But it's funny because I will get into those, like, conversations with Star Trek nerds when I'm at like, conventions and stuff. Like, the people who cosplay are really into the continuity of, like, what uniforms are when. And it is remarkable how much attention is paid to those things.

11:22
Hope
Oh, no, it's. It's so true. Like, when you're that hyper passionate about it, you will pick up the most minute of details and like, you will fixate on them because it has to be succinct. Like, I get it.

11:39
Case
Yeah. And that's why, like, this movie has been discussed a lot on the Internet in that kind of light. Right. Like, you know, I think every nerd worth their salt has done a series at some point on the Star Trek movies. Like, I. I had a YouTube series back in the day that was like on the Star Trek mov. You know, they. They exist out there because it. It's a thing to talk about. And you know, there's red letter media, like the Nostalgia Critic. I'm sure Linkara has done some like, coverage of this, probably the comic book adaptation of it. But there's a lot of, you know, a lot of people have discussed it. A lot of like the.

12:12
Case
The nerds of, you know, renown for the, like the video essay or in some cases the video complainy format, which I'm less a fan of, but, you know, is out there. Has this. Has discussed this. Like today I re. Listened to the Red Letter media one because, like, I generally appreciate their points, even if I think sometimes that they're just, you know, being a little too, like, it's not cinema sins. You know, it, like, it's not that far. And I, I do agree with like, a couple of points. Like, you know, the. The data subplot is good that it exists to give Brent Spiner, like, more to do, but doesn't tie into the bigger subplot and it could very easily. And that's kind of a depressing part. And the B plot with like fridging Robert is like, so lame.

12:56
Hope
Yeah. Like, yeah, not.

12:59
Sam
Not just Robert, but like his child.

13:01
Case
Yeah. His. His whole family and his. And his home.

13:05
Hope
You had to bring the kids into it.

13:07
Case
Like, yeah, like his childhood home, his entire family, the kids, the wife, like, all of his family that we had a really touching episode, like, reconnecting with. And it's just like, yep, we're just going to like literally set all of that on fire.

13:23
Sam
Yeah. So weird because, like, I was like, this is a very extreme choice to like, basically like, put push a point of like being grateful for the time that you have. Right. To just like off an entire family. Yeah. I think, like, it would have been like, still not great, but it would have in slightly better to just kind of like, oh, my brother had like a heart attack. Right. Because, like, those things happen. Right? Like, you get busy in life. And like, my brother and his son, they died and like, it was just like, it just made it so much more dramatic and just so I was just like, wow, like, kind of felt him Fisted and like, Patrick's through it. It's not his, like, fault. Like, he delivered everything beautifully. That's not what I'm saying here. Shakespearean plot point itself, right?

14:18
Sam
Tragedy he can do. But what I'm saying is, but it felt like the, the plot device there felt very ham fisted to me. Like, it was like so heavy and such like a crazy turn and I was just like, oh, oh. We're just. Okay, everybody, we're, we're fridging the brother and the child. Okay, cool, cool.

14:40
Case
Yeah, it is wild how far they are willing to just like, write off this, like, potential, like, plot contrivance for the future. Like this like, element of the character they just want to get rid of just to make him, like, kind of sad in the face of this all. And like, in my notes, like, at the very end, I did sort of like, have the thought that like, well, I guess there is a tie into the Borg if you really want to get into it in that, like, we've only seen Robert and I forget the son's, you know, the nephew's name.

15:10
Hope
Renee.

15:10
Case
Renee Rene. So, like, we've only seen them actually in that one episode, the family episode, when Picard goes home after being the best of Both Worlds two parter. So you could make an argument that this is Picard dealing with the ramifications of the Borg and the loss of what you have and the family you have in the wake of the devastation of the Borg, which Saren is also in the wake of the Borg, you know, killing his family and like, and devastating his home world, also dealing with like, in a PTSD form. Like, you could make that argument.

15:45
Case
I don't think the movie really, you know, supports that argument that much or like, if it does, I don't think it's like really like, delved into, which is unfortunate because, like, that is at least a thing that would have like, helped make a case for the dynamic between these characters. But I don't think it's really there. And thus I think that you could make an argument that there would better kind of encounters that start, you know, the Picard and that we saw in Star Trek the Next Generation to, like, reference here. If you wanted to, like, have a reference to like a famous episode from the show. And this is a minor, you know, sneak peek for my pitch.

16:21
Case
Like, I think you could do a thing that would feel more impactful and tie into like, the bigger story of like, all right, well, what is Picard doing. And, like, does that tie into anything with data? Like, because at the moment the data subplot is just purely unrelated. Like, what really happens with the ship is almost kind of like incidental. Like, there's no reason the Enterprise had to be destroyed for the way that we saw this movie going. Like, the Enterprise could have been shown being destroyed by the impact of the planet, or rather the sun being destroyed, and it would have been destroyed in that first timeline before Picard and Kirk go back in time and fix time so the Enterprise doesn't have to be destroyed. You. But if you're going to do it, you should justify it. Like, the.

17:05
Case
This 20 year old, like, Klingon Bird of Prey is not going to be able to really make a compelling foe, regardless of if they, like, temporarily figure out a way through their shields. Like, we're talking about the flagship of the Enterprise.

17:18
Hope
Such an issue with that whole thing, dude.

17:20
Case
Like, yeah, and I have an issue because they repeatedly say it and then they're just like, oh, I guess we figured it out. Never mind.

17:29
Sam
We did it. Yay. I did like their gumption, though. I mean, it's not a. It doesn't really work, but I did. I did like the way the actors played their gumption of figuring out, like.

17:43
Case
Yeah, like, that was cool. I love the sisters. Like, they're always fun to see and it's, like, nice to get, like a classic Klingon villain in there. Like, that's. That's cool. It does feel like, again, this feels very much like a movie episode of the show.

17:57
Sam
Can I also say, it was really nice to see good wigs. You know, we don't really get a lot of good wigs in movies anymore. And it was, like, really nice to see good wigs. And that's just like, on the side, I was like, oh, man, they're really good wigs.

18:09
Hope
No, it adds to it, though. It really does. Like, it sells the character more.

18:14
Case
Yeah, I was very happy with the Klingon makeup and, like, the sets for the Klingon stuff. I'm a little frustrated at how much of the footage they reuse from the immediate preceding Star Trek movie with the Klingon Bird of Prey. And that's a little bit of a bummer, but I have a proposal that would be a counter to it, which we'll save for my pitch.

18:35
Sam
Okay.

18:38
Case
I'm feeling good about this one because, like, this is a movie.

18:40
Hope
I know you're feeling good.

18:43
Sam
I'm actually, like, quaking. I'm like, you know, I Don't. I'm good. You can just do your pitch and we can call it.

18:49
Case
No, no. Like, it's collaborative, but I'm feeling good because this is one where, like, it's got so many, like, obvious elements that are going to be Good. Like, Malcolm McDowell is going to be good because he's good in the things that he's good at. And this is him being good at being, like, a weird, like, creepy villain. And he's good in that regard. And we've got the sisters, who we have established previously in the TV show as, like, this recurring threat in the Klingon empire. Like, that's good. We've got the cast of Star Trek the Next Generation in full here, and that's good. You know, we've got, like, a greater emphasis on Whoopi Goldberg, and that's good. You know, like, all these things are good. You know, we get. We get. We get Kirk.

19:28
Case
And, like, I actually, like, really like the scenes with Kirk. We should actually spend some time talking about that, because we haven't yet. I think. I really like the Kirk stuff in the Nexus.

19:37
Hope
Yeah.

19:38
Case
Rewatching it. I'm like, oh, I like Kirk, like, putting it together through his own willpower. Like, what. What he's in. In a way that is different than Picard. I don't like Picard being led through it by, like, a ghost of Guinan. I would rather get Picard having his own willpower get through it. But Kirk actually does get his own willpower to get through it. And I think that is a rather good choice. I think that having the raw will that it takes to be a Starfleet captain, be the reason why these. These two, as opposed to anyone else that has ever been, like, consumed by the ribbon, I think it makes sense that these two are the ones who can break three, because they have that. That strong willpower.

20:17
Case
And I think that the Kirk scenes actually does a really good job of selling that. Like, him putting it together of, like, you know, we get the whole, like, what are you talking about? The future. This is the past. And then it's like, this is this day and this is that day. And wait, I've never. I always felt fear at this moment, but I. I didn't this time because it's not real. And, like, life is worth. Is worth it because of risk. And him, like, coming to that realization in this world, I think is really good. And then we get, like, the dumb fight on the, like, desert world. And, like, that's. That. That was a choice.

20:54
Sam
Yeah.

20:54
Case
I don't think it's particularly satisfying. And I think that the rationale for. For all of it is. Is really dumb. Like, the whole, like, oh, the rocket's going to take 11 seconds to get there, and it'll take us between 7 and 15 to, like, catch onto it. Like, that's. That's really far. It doesn't have, like, a warp core attached to it. Like, that's. That's not how rockets actually move.

21:13
Hope
Right.

21:14
Case
But you can make it work in a different way. You don't even need to do the whole, like, planet thing. You could. You could work around it, which, again, we'll get to. Because I'm very excited about my pitch.

21:25
Sam
Well, I mean, like, I also think that, like, it's kind of weird because the, like, I know there's always, like. Like a final kind of, you know, struggle and things like that, but the. The fight seems. Feels so different from the rest of the movie, if that makes sense. Like, it almost makes like it. It's almost like the. It makes the pacing feel weird. It makes. It just. It feels like.

21:55
Case
It feels like a TOS fight. Like, it feels like. It feels like the Gorn fight. Like, from. From tos.

22:01
Hope
Yeah. No.

22:02
Sam
Yeah.

22:02
Hope
Yeah. The pacing was so different from, like, everything leading up, because now, I guess they wanted to show the shift change and, like, from ship to planet to whatever. You know, it's. It really did throw off the pacing so much.

22:18
Sam
Yeah, it's, like, very jarring.

22:21
Case
Like, the shots where, like, Kirk and Saren are, like, weaving between the metal of the, like, the overstructure or whatever to, like. Like, just, like, slowly, like, kind of punch each other. I was like, this is. What. What is this, like, I believe this choreography for the men of this age. But at the same time, like, this is not, like, an interesting fight to watch. Like, this is, like, kind. Yeah, this is slightly better than the Irishman when, like, De Niro, like, looks so goddamn old. Just, like, kicking a person's ass. At least this one's not trying to pretend anything, but at the same time, it's not in a really dynamic kind of sequence. Like, and it could have been a more dynamic sequence, and it's entirely just that it was shot in this way that, like, felt like a TOS kind of sequence.

23:08
Case
And that's kind of cool if that was on purpose, but because they're in the movie uniforms, like, it doesn't quite read the same way.

23:16
Sam
Yeah.

23:16
Case
If that makes any sense. I don't know.

23:18
Hope
Like, I just pictured that Malcolm McDowell and Sir Patrick Stewart were fighting over me. And that made this scene a lot better for me.

23:28
Case
That is fair.

23:29
Hope
I was like, they're just fighting over me.

23:31
Sam
Kind of also makes it feel like, the beginning is like original series, and then you've got like the middle, which is like a Next Generation movie. And then we go back and like, now we're kind of like we're going to do a little bit of original series and now we're going to cap it off, the Next Generation. So it feels weird because it feels like it's like, choppy.

23:49
Hope
Yeah.

23:49
Sam
Does it make sense? Like, so, like, I think that makes especially that last fight scene feel very jarring as opposed to, like. And I think it's also because, I mean, it's difficult to take these two captains and kind of meld them together because, like, they're both wonderful, but they're wonderful in very different ways and, like, very different vibes coming off of these two actors and these two captains. Right. And so you kind of blend them together, but they're not on screen together for a very long time in reality. So I don't think you really, as a viewer get like, a really good bearing. And like. Like, between the two of them, there's not really great chemistry either. And the things that, like, usually that, like, cap, like the people that they usually bounce off of, neither of them have that right. So, like, there's.

24:43
Sam
It's just the two of them.

24:45
Hope
Well, they're all speaking different languages in a sense, you know.

24:49
Sam
Yeah.

24:50
Case
And Dharma Angelad at Tanagra. God damn it.

24:54
Sam
Exactly. And it's for such a short time, you know, that just that last portion just feels so, I think, strange to the viewer. Right. Because, like.

25:08
Case
Well, I think the thing that makes it feel strange is that, like, the team up itself could. It doesn't matter that it's these two guys. Like, I think that the sequence where, like, Picard goes to Kirk and Kirk is in his, like, Nexus paradise space. I think that works really well. The breaking Kirk out of it, I think is really, like, that's a good sequence. But when they, like, come down to the planet together, it could have been any two guys. Like, it doesn't have to be Kirk and Picard. And in fact, it's weird that it's Kirk and Picard because, like, they're guys who are older. Like, Kirk's the older of the two, but they're both older guys in a fight with another older guy, you know, so it's not like the most dynamic of fight Sequences.

25:49
Case
But, like, it's also not a scene that, like, you, like. You could do such a more dynamic thing if they were, like, captaining a ship, you know, like, that's the thing they're good at. They are the captains of ships. They are not like the. The Special Forces, like, character. This is not a Reacher episode.

26:04
Hope
Right? And then, like, have them fight over techniques like, well, you know, in this instance, I would do this. And he's like, well, then I would do this maneuver and, like, kind of banter back and forth like that.

26:14
Case
Like, have a sequence where they're both, like, on the bridge of a ship and, like, Picard pitches, like, doing the thing. And Kirk is like, what is that? And Picard is like, oh, it's. It's this thing they call it the Picard Maneuver, you know, like, where they do the thing for the constellation that, like, earned him the name. The Picard Maneuver for, like, a thing. And, like, Kirk is like. They named a maneuver out of you after you. Like, have, like, a little bit of this, like, banter back and forth about them.

26:42
Case
Speaking of banter, I just, like, I had this idea that would be, like, great to do, which is that if Chekov, when he is appearing in the opening sequence, make a reference to something from season one and have Scotty be like, but wait, you weren't on the bridge yet at that point. Like, no, I wasn't on the bridge yet, but. Sorry, I can't do a Russian accent. I was not on the bridge.

27:06
Hope
Just speak normally, dude.

27:08
Case
I was not on the bridge yet, but I was working in blank space to be a nod to the Wrath of Khan weirdness that. That Chekov knows Khan and that Khan recognizes Chekov.

27:20
Hope
Right.

27:20
Case
Play into it here for just, like, the sake of it, I think would be really fun and, like, not take a lot of time. Oh, yeah, on that note, like, it's kind of lame that we don't get more people from the original cast, but I'm not that upset about it. Like. Like, I'm more bothered that, like, Kirk, when he is, like. Like, when the ship is zapped by the ribbon like that, it's just Kirk that is lost. Like, not like everyone else from the ship. Like, that's kind of weird, you know? Like, it seems to be like, oh, well, we evacuated everyone, or they don't care about anyone. Which either situation is, like, kind of fucked up, right?

27:54
Hope
Yeah, that whole situation in general was just kind of weird, you know? Like, they could have had more casualties. They had, like, zero other than Kirk. I'm like, if you're that unprepared, there's gonna be more than that happening.

28:07
Case
Yeah, yeah. And then this, like, kind of gets into a thing which is that, like, technically Kirk is responsible for Saren being in the situation. So shouldn't Saren kind of hate Kirk? But when I say technically, I mean, like, there's no real, like, connecting scenes between them, which again, is going to play into my pitch. But it is like, kind of a frustration. Like, you would think that would be a driving force behind this whole relationship between them that, like, Saren actually loathes Kirk because Kirk is the reason why he's not in, you know, like, in the Nexus currently.

28:36
Case
So that there at least is a dynamic between, like, Picard, the modern person trying to stop him, but also Kirk and like, thus the Enterprise, as well as, like, the symbolic, like the symbolic entity that has, like, been, you know, an adversary over the last, like, 80 years for this guy.

28:52
Sam
Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, that would have been much more interesting.

28:57
Hope
Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing with this movie. Like, the connective tissue is, like, so non existent. Like, you have great parts, you have great scenes, but, like, when they come together, there's nothing to, like, go. Instead of A to B, it's like A to D. Like. Yeah, and that's, I think, one of the movie's downfalls. Like, because it has good ideas, it has great actors, but it's just like connecting the pieces was just subpar to making the pieces.

29:28
Case
Yeah. Let's talk about Data's emotions Chip subplot for. For a moment there because. Yeah, so, like, I don't mind the subplot in general. I think it's actually really strong in relation to the. The larger meta of like, the Star Trek Next Generation movies where, like, the. The emotions Chip has been used for, like, against him in the next movie and then, like, is like a factor in the later movies. Like, it's like, kind of cool that this opens up a B plot that wouldn't have existed in the show, but is a running plot in these, like, later, you know, movies that I think is cool.

30:02
Sam
Oh, I like. So I actually remember seeing this in theaters with my parents. And like, this was my favorite thing about the movie. Like.

30:11
Hope
Oh, really?

30:11
Sam
Like, like, David's feelings was my favorite thing about the movie. I mean, I was like 12, 13 years old. So, like, you know, you're pretty young and you kind of like, latch onto whatever humor is in a film sometimes, but this is like. Yeah. And so, like, even on my rewatch this time, I was just like, oh, yeah, that this was in this movie. But I really remember everything about this.

30:36
Hope
Right. Well, it sticks out to you, though. That's why. Because it's one. It's so left field because you're doing so many emotions. And then two. Again, like, connecting this plot to the rest of the movie is so out there. Like, it's. Obviously, it's going to stick out to you more. You know, it's the thing that really grabs your attention. So, yeah, I'm. I'm totally with you there. And, like, that's the big remembrance of the movie.

31:04
Case
Yeah, it's the comedy relief. And, like, that part, I think it works just fine. Like, the. The. I hate this, like, drink scene. It's like, more. Yes, please. Like, like, that's a good gag. I. I'm happy with that gag. The. Oh, like, delivery is great. Like, I. I think that's a really.

31:20
Sam
I also love when he's singing Looking for Life Force.

31:23
Case
Oh, yeah, like.

31:24
Sam
Like, I love that.

31:25
Case
Yeah. Great moment there.

31:27
Sam
And everyone on the. It's just staring at him like, what the.

31:32
Case
Those are good moments there. The problem is it doesn't fit in with the rest of the movie. Like, there isn't, like, some way that it, like, is, you know, part of the resolution for anything. Like, it doesn't pay off in any way beyond just that he has these emotions. And, like, that's kind of a bummer. I. I like that at least we have him react, like, emotionally to spot. Like, that's great.

31:54
Hope
Yes. That was, like, the very last part of the movie. But, yeah.

31:58
Case
Yeah.

31:59
Sam
And also, Geordi wouldn't have been. Geordi wouldn't have been taken if he didn't have fear. So, like, there's also that, like, it does. It does kind of move the plot along in that way, because it immobilizes him in a way that he's never been immobilized before and he can't stand up for a friend.

32:17
Case
Imagine the luck, by the way, like, for Saren, when that occurs. Because, like, otherwise, like, it's just Data. And, like, imagine if it was Data who responded with anger.

32:27
Hope
Oh, gosh, yes. I would have been like Terminator man, right?

32:32
Case
Like, it would just be, like, Olarian, like, body parts all over the place.

32:39
Sam
I actually, like, thought to myself at one point, like, when I was doing one of the re watches this time, I was like, you know, this seems like maybe not a great time to, like, put something new into your brain. But then I was like, but when is a good time, right? Like, they're always traveling through space and possibly in danger, so it's fine.

33:01
Case
Like, you know, there's. There's always another mission that he has to attend to. There's all, you know, he has to suppress his emotions in favor of, like, the mission and the continuing thing. And. God damn it, this is a critique of capitalism.

33:14
Sam
For sure.

33:16
Hope
No, I. I will say one thing with, like, the. The whole emotion thing. Like, I don't know about you guys, but when he, like, had the. The breakdown where he, like, laughed until he, like, you know, I like watching this. When I was younger, I was like, that's actually really creepy. Like, just the laugh to Comatose was just like, oh.

33:38
Case
Oh, God. Yeah. Brent Spiner would have been a great joker if they were casting at those, like, appropriate times. Like, like, if Brin Spiner was, like, a slightly bigger actor and they weren't looking for, like, a huge star for, like, Batman 89, like, they could have like, gotten him for that and, like, imagine that world. That would have been so cool.

33:57
Sam
Mm. Agreed.

34:00
Hope
I mean, all he's missing is a little bit of the makeup. He's already got the pale face, right. Why not just do it one step further?

34:06
Case
Yeah, that'd be a creepy version of the Joker where it's like, it's android who discovered laughter. No. And now he rips people apart.

34:15
Hope
Oh, yeah. No, that's creepy. I. I don't want to think about that.

34:21
Case
All right. I. I feel like we're spinning our wheels right now because, like, this is a mid movie. Like, there's a lot of things to, like, we've, like, referenced a lot of things that we really like. Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner, Malcolm McDowell, Whoopi Goldberg. Like, oh, my God, this movie has so many things going for it, but at the same time, it's kind of like, well, you guys wanted to do a Passing of the Torch movie, and it's like kind of like an okay Passing of the torch movie. And, like, we wanted a better Passing the Torch movie considering its pedigree. You know, this is the movie that comes out after the Next Generation ended. And we got all good things. Like, like, how good a finale is that? And you want to do, like, the, you know, the.

34:57
Case
The movie that is a handoff movie coming after Star Trek 6, which is such a good Star Trek movie. So why don't we take a break, shout out either one of the shows on our network or maybe the Jaguar Stark. So if you guys have an audio ad that you want to, like, run by us. Like, we. We would love to play that, but we're going to run an ad for, like, people that we like and, you know, stuff you should listen to. And then when we come back, we're going to speculate on how this movie could have been better. Hey. Oh, hey, Jeff. What's going on, guys? Oh, you know, talking about Superman. Oh, cool. I could talk about Superman. I could talk some more about Superman. We know. I'll bet a few people would want to get in on this. I'm down.

35:41
Case
You know, it. That sounds like fun. I'll do it. Cool. Let's do it. We can call the show Men of Steel, and you can find it@ certainpov.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Yay. And we're back. Hope there. There's one rule on the show, which is that I am not allowed to go before Sam. We have, you know, guidelines that we try to follow, such as, like, we're not trying to speculate on things that were not possible, but the big thing is I'm just not allowed to go before Sam. So you are a guest and you decide if you want to go first or if you want Sam to go first. I'm just not allowed to go before Sam. So, like, you could go last and, like, have Sam go first, then me.

36:20
Case
Or you can have Sam go and then you and then me.

36:22
Hope
Or we'll do Sam, me, and then you. I think, as I wanted, here's Sam. But I need to go before you because you're just. You're going to steal the show after, so.

36:32
Case
For sure.

36:33
Sam
For sure.

36:34
Hope
That's why.

36:34
Sam
That's why I don't go after him. Like, I just. I just don't. Especially if we're doing a surface. It's just not ever happening.

36:42
Hope
That's my thing. Like, because of the subject matter, I'm like, I know a lot, but this man could outdo me at any point for this.

36:51
Case
So, like, it's not like I work in Star Trek fan films. Like, no.

36:59
Sam
You know what?

37:00
Hope
No.

37:01
Sam
So, you know, my pitch is, like, fairly simple, because I actually just wish that there's a lot to like about this film. I. I think that it can feel a little slow in the middle, but not because, like, it actually is slow, but just kind of because the fight scene makes the pacing feel really weird. Like, you're like, there's. There's. Now. It's not actually good action.

37:30
Hope
Right?

37:31
Sam
So. So I think I'm not gonna fridge the kid. I I may leave the little thing in there, but I'm going to leave the rest of the family alone. And like, not the future picades of the. Because it's just, it's weird. It's heavy handed. I. I don't know. I know we're trying to do like a, you know, we need to leave. Well, it's okay. He comes to terms with the fact that he won't have so many generations because he lived his life well now. But. But it's just a little too much for me. So I am definitely not killing off a child in this. I'm. The whole first half of this I'm mostly fine with. Right. Like the, you know, the switch off, the handoff, all that stuff. Stuff. Want to get to the Nexus sooner.

38:26
Sam
I want to see more banter between Picard and. And Kirk. I want to feel a real partnership between them and. And if that means that they have to work through instead of. I don't want to cut too much Whoopi Goldberg because I love her. But like, if that means they have to like breaking free of the Nexus together, I would have much preferred that than them individually figuring it out either with the ghost of Whooping Goldberg or not. But I'd like them to figure that out together and then like create a fighting style to then get out. Because I feel like it's.

39:10
Hope
So.

39:12
Sam
They jump, right. Like, like there's. First of all the horse riding staying too long. Does it need to be that long when I think about it? Because all of a sudden like, yeah, we're gonna go back to the planet and then they're just there. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like the jump is too quick. So I would actually like to kind of not ruin everything that we have going on with like the explanations of like, you know, character development and stuff like that. But I want to get to the actual everyone was there for. Right. Is to see the two captains together. And I want to see that sooner. I want to see that sooner. I want them to figure out that like, you know, getting at. I want them to have plan to get out of the Nexus together.

39:59
Sam
I want to see that happen. I want to understand how they go back in time and then I want a better, more exciting, dynamic struggle towards the end. So basically I want a little more action, like sooner not in the last like 30 minutes. I would like maybe like last 40 minutes. You know, give me 10 more minutes of actual like action. And that's how I was trying to fix this movie. But I would Leave Data alone. Because I love his emotions. I would leave it in. All right.

40:36
Hope
Hope it's all you. So there's a lot of what I agree with you there. Like if you can leave the Data emotions and honestly I, with the whole Data and emotions thing, I would have integrated that more. Like if you're going to do that, lean hard.

40:50
Case
Yeah.

40:50
Hope
You know, do it from the get go and have like. I would have had like, my thing is I would have had Picard find out about the tragedy, not during the whole like weird at sea thing. Like have them finish that. Have Data be upset with like, I don't understand. To get the emotion chip. And then the whole connecting moment can be like Data finding Picard when he just finds out that like his family died. And then you can see him trying to understand like sadness and emotion. Like him trying to read Picard and then that and Picard being like, just shut off, being like, why this hap. What dude, what are you doing? You know? And he's like, I'm feeling all these emotions. What do you mean you're feeling.

41:43
Hope
You know, like so that could have played into this whole subplot of how they're kind of bonding over Picard not wanting to feel emotion and then Data feeling all the emotion and he could have been playing more off of that even into like into the Nexus, you know, like maybe. Because if Data was with Picard at the time when he could be the grounding person to get them out of the Nexus because maybe the sheer force of will didn't happen so much and like Kirk and instead of like them just snapping, Kirk and Picard could have been like egging each other on to stay. And Data would be like, well, no, because.

42:33
Case
And oh, I like it.

42:35
Hope
Yeah, yeah. Been like the pulling factor, like, but all these emotions and it's like this Nexus trying to figure out what this new baby emotion Data wants, you know, and then he could have been like the factor to get them out. Like, hey, like, there's still stuff we got to do, guys. Like, and he's like, I feel all this emotion for everybody on the ship who's going through this. And they're just like, the Nexus. Let's do this. So it could have been like that you could have played so much more into banter between Kirk and Picard. You know, the whole Data emotion plot line, it could have worked so well, I think. And then.

43:15
Sam
Yeah, I think so too.

43:16
Hope
I, I think just up playing up those connections and then obviously like when, if you have the three of them at the end fighting Soren. I think that would have been more interesting too, instead of having old retired ass Kirk taking that jumping the shark scene basically like, I, I get it though. They had to kill him off because he's technically dead. Whatever. But I don't know, I feel like it could have happened in a different way than just doing a jump. He had no business doing a jump for and then being crushed under metal, it could have been so much more. And then it could have also played into Data's emotions. More of him going through a loss because he like, bonded with Kirk and he's processing these emotions.

44:07
Hope
Like, I feel like we could have started and ended this movie with the whole Data subplot. That's just me.

44:13
Case
No, I agree that the Data subplot is like, is very strong and could be used to great effect and isn't in this movie. Yeah, I, I like the idea that Data is part of the Nexus sequence and is like the reason they're able to like, pull out. Yeah, that's very cool. Yeah, I dig it.

44:40
Hope
I passed. Thank you.

44:42
Case
Another pass. It's done.

44:48
Sam
It's over.

44:50
Hope
No more tests.

44:53
Case
School's out for summer. Woo. No, no, I, I, I do really dig that. Like, I, I think it's a lot of fun. It's different than the way I'm going. But like, I, I think that what all of these pitches are showing so far is that this movie is like close in all these like, specific ways that just needed to like, really like, beef up like, you know, X, Y or Z thing. And like any of those would have been enough to like, counterbalance like the energy of this movie into like a good position.

45:22
Sam
Yeah.

45:23
Case
So for me, I want a few things to happen. I want Kirk to be directly responsible for Soren being alive. Like, I think that it's not like, not just that like, you know, the Enterprise specifically like beamed him off and like, that's why he's like, not connected. I like, I want like, Kirk to be directly responsible and I want Soren to be responsible for the reason why Kirk is in the Nexus. Like, I want it to be like, oh, we send a sh, we have send a crew over to like pull people off because of like interference with everything or like something to that effect. And like Soren is like being like drawn into the Nexus and like Kirk grabs him and pulls him away and Soren freaks out and shoves Kirk into like the Nexus itself and then tries to follow.

46:02
Case
But like Scotty and Chekhov pulsar in a way and, like, prevent them from going in. Like, I want, like, Soren to have, like, a gripe with Kirk and Kirk to have a gripe with Soren in the long run of everything. Like. Like, why not connect this whole situation together?

46:16
Sam
Yeah, yeah.

46:18
Case
And so then I think that I want to tie the emotions chip subplot into a larger plot better. The thing that Picard should be sharing is his feelings that you should be experiencing, like, should. Like. I think that the. The Robert subplot doesn't actually tie into the emotion subplot very well. And I think what would be really interesting is if the thing that were really dealing with is the PTSD that Picard is feeling due to the inner light. And I think that I want to tie in the experience of the inner light where Picard lives a life of a person away, you know, in, you know, inside of his mind in the course of a few minutes. I want to relate that to the experience of living inside the Nexus.

46:58
Case
And that's the reason why Picard has the willpower to get free ultimately, that he has already experienced something like this. And I think that this is a reasonable thing to connect back to because, like, you can just have, like, the flute as, like, the memorabilia that he's, like, kind of responding to. You can have someone, like, make a reference to, you know, something, you know, some, you know, some bit of dialogue where someone, like, when he and Picard or when he or Riker, pardon me, are like, discussing, like, the old times, you know, like being like on a ship like that or something like that. Yeah, and they, you know, they reference, like, just, you know, the heat of the sun, like, on our face. And, like, Picard has, like, a flash of.

47:33
Case
To, you know, like, the inner light world that, you know, he was dealing with. And, like, he kind of just, like, relates that, like, it is still with him, you know, like, that, like these, like, feelings about it all. And it bothers him to, like, remember, like, having a family and having, like, all these things and having it be ultimately, in a way, not real, but also kind of real, I think would be a really interesting, like, thing to compare there. And then when he's talking to Data about it all, he can talk about how, like, the emotions of, like, having so much life lived in that period, like, really weigh on him and, like, how it takes so much to, like, bottle up those emotions. You know, like when Sarek, Spock's father, like, shared his mind meld with. With Picard, they like.

48:14
Case
It was noted that, like, Picard has a very Vulcan mind, that he is able to, like, house, like, the. The raw emotions of, you know, this, like, 202, like, year old, like, Vulcan diplomat. And it's just like, you know, Picard has, like, such a strong will. And, like, I think that's the thing to, like, really, like, focus on here. Like, that Picard has been through emotional situations that no other person could be through. And that is why that he alone is able to, like, free himself directly from the Nexus, like, later on, like when Whoopi Goldberg comes in. And I think that you can make that connect to the emotions applied at least, like, thematically that way.

48:52
Case
And then what I think would be really cool is if when they're trying to figure out where they have to go, that Data thinks through the situation because he's a literal computer, assesses, like, how he's thinking about things and how he's feeling about things like that. The. The way they figure out where Soren and, like, the Klingons have gone is that Data is like, well, I was. I ran a simulation where, like, based on the feelings of frustration that I was feeling and, like, what I could surmise that they would be experiencing based on the situation, that they would, like, you know, go to X, Y or Z thing or, you know, yada, yada, you know, tech, tech.

49:28
Case
But, like, you could fill this out in a way that, like, Data's use of the emotion chip actually ties into him solving the problem of, like, well, where did Soren and the Klingons go?

49:38
Hope
No, I like that. Yeah. And I love how it draws everything together, like, smoothly. So.

49:44
Case
Yeah. Now next up. I don't think that it makes any goddamn sense to be like, we have to redirect the ribbon to hit a planet.

49:54
Hope
That was.

49:56
Case
I don't think it's particularly helpful. I think that it's like. I think that it deprives us of, like, a cool set piece. And so I was thinking, like, man, it should be a ship and, like, it should be, like, a hard ship to get. And I think that if it was a ship that was like a pretty durable kind of ship, then you could have two ships in play for, like, the battle with the Enterprise and thus make it much more logical that, like, you know, that the Enterprise goes down. The Enterprise is the flagship ship in the Federation fleet. Like, the Starfleet has no mightier vessel. Vessel than the Enterprise. D Like, and they. They say this several times in this movie.

50:33
Case
And, like, the amount the fact that it goes down just from like a few torpedoes that happen to be fired before they're able to remodulate their shields, which should be something that's like they had like a 15 second window for all the damage.

50:44
Hope
Right.

50:45
Case
You, you need to make a better case for like, why the Enterprise goes down. And like, I'm fine with the Enterprise going down in this movie. Like, it's the handoff movie. You wanted to get like the Enterprise E for the next one so that you could have like a full redesign of it. I. It makes enough sense. Like, this is the send off for it all we get. We show the saucer section separate from the base one last time, you know, and still have it like, go down. But I think that Soren should be after a Federation ship. And I think considering that the year that this movie came out and the year that the ship that I'm thinking about first appeared on Deep Space Nine, I think he should be trying to steal a Defiant class ship.

51:25
Hope
Okay. Or even like blueprints to said ship or like, or the. Yeah, something. I like that. I like that.

51:33
Case
Yeah, it's the same goddamn year. They're definitely already like working on the sets for that. And like, you know what they love doing in Star Trek movies, which is like, getting footage that they can use for future Star Trek things. Like.

51:46
Sam
Oh, yeah, they love that.

51:47
Case
Like, get the model work here so that you can use it in future Deep Space Nine episodes. Like, everyone would be fine with that situation. So have Soren, like, steal a Defiant class ship, like, mate. You know, like they're, you know, you. If you want to have it be like a cute reference to like Wrath of Khan. It could be the Reliance, you know, but it could be like whatever kind of like ship that is sort of in that. You know, it's, you know, whatever the Defiant, like, numbering was. It's like number three or four in the sequence. And it's just like our introduction to this, like, juggernaut of a fucking Starfleet ship. It is like all shields, guns and warp drive like in. It's basically a saucer section just like compressed into like the tiniest fucking package of density and destruction.

52:30
Case
And like, Soren's trying to steal that so that he can use that like to brute force his way into the Nexus. But that means that we can have like a really cool fight between two ships with cloaks because the Defiant had a cloak and the Enterprise. And so you can actually make a compelling, like, oh, yeah, the Enterprise lost this fight and it makes sense because it had like this, you know, this prototype like warship and also this 20 year old Romulan, or not Romulan, Klingon bird of prey. And I think that would make a lot more sense in that regard. Like, why have the Enterprise go down to. You know, like, it feels like the Enterprise is like taking a fall in this movie because like, no, it shouldn't go down to a 20 year old Klingon bird of prey.

53:18
Case
Like what are we talking about here? Like, the Klingon ships are like, notably like outclassed like one to one all the time. Like the whole reason they're useful during the Dominion fight is that they're so retro that like Dominion like technology like doesn't work on them.

53:34
Hope
Yeah, no, I, Yeah, the whole bird appraising so on board.

53:38
Case
Yeah, but like, I think having like Data being the one to like really identify where they are hiding and like what planet they like have fled off to works because it's very much like the way that we treat Nemo in the best of scenes. Or Nimoy. Pardon me, like I was about to say what Nemo? No, no, no. But Neymo.

53:54
Sam
Where is he? Sorry?

53:57
Case
Like Leonard Nimoy. Like the best Spock scenes are the ones where he's like, well, if someone were to like think about it with feelings, this is what they would do because like that shows like the complete master of emotions. Like for all the problems that Star Trek 09 has, like the scene where like, where old Spock is like, oh, he would do this if you did. This is incredibly like telling about like the mastery this character have has of his emotions. Now combine that with like Data's like literal computer intellect and like, that's a really cool like mechanism for like figuring out a puzzle.

54:29
Sam
Right, Right.

54:31
Case
Yeah. So needs to be getting a ship, blah, blah. And then I'm fine with even keeping like the blowing up of the sun element. I think that like the distance that they were firing from didn't make any fucking sense. But like using the destroying a sun to like, instead of like maybe moving the, the ribbon, like maybe slowing it down, like you could like figure out a trajectory and if you like blow up these two suns, it will cause it to be like passing the orbit of like these, you know, celestial bodies and slow down to such a point that you could actually approach it at warp with it, you know, with a machine with sufficient shields that it would not be like torn up completely. And like set that up as a Concept or maybe say, like, it can't be warp.

55:13
Case
It has to be impulse. But that's why you need this, like, Defiant class ship to, like, just, like, ram all the way in there. And, like, that's how they get in there. And then when. When Kirk and Picard are trying to leave the Nexus, the thing needs to be that, like, they can leave the Nexus any. At any point where the Nexus is in. In literal space, they can't just leave at any time, anywhere. Like, they could exit it at a point close to where the Nexus already is interacting. So they can only go back so far relative to their thing.

55:42
Case
Like, they, you know, if they try to go back, like, two days, it'll just be like, in space, if they were to exit, but they can exit onto, like, the bridge of this, like, Defiant class ship, like, a few minutes before it crashes, you know, crashes in or something like that. And, like, fires off the rocket, you know, and so that's why they're able to do this whole situation without being, like, so negligent in terms of, like, how far back they could go. Because, like, Picard easily could have gone back to, like, you know, when Soren is at 10 forward and he just, like, goes and talks to them for a minute. Like, imagine if he had went. Went back to that point and just like, phased him, stunned. So. So we need reasons for that.

56:27
Case
Yeah, but I'm fine with the Enterprise going down because I really want the movie to end with. With Picard going. Picard to Farragut, two to beam up. Because you know what? God damn it. The Starship Farragut has a place in this fucking movie, man. And I am so happy about that.

56:43
Sam
I know.

56:44
Hope
I was. I. I was shocked when they said that. I was like, oh, my gosh.

56:49
Case
Just a reminder that the Starship Farragut is a canonical ship in the Starfleet. And. Yeah, so that was my pitch right there. I feel pretty good about that one. Like, yeah, you know, I think ending like this would cause the ending to feel more like the ending of Galaxy Quest. But you know what? I'm fine with that.

57:09
Hope
Hey, I love Galaxy Quest.

57:12
Case
Exactly.

57:12
Sam
Galaxy Quest is a good movie.

57:13
Case
Galaxy Quest is the secret, great, even movie in the Star Trek franchise. Like, if you put that in there between Insurrection and Nemesis, then it makes the entire sequence work well.

57:26
Hope
I love that.

57:27
Case
Yes.

57:27
Sam
Yeah, I can see that.

57:28
Hope
Make Galaxy Quest canonical.

57:30
Sam
Yeah, yeah, we need T shirts that say that.

57:36
Case
Anyway. So, like, that's. That's my pitch on this one. And I. I feel good. Like, this is Like, a little on the short side for our episodes, but I feel like this was, like, a really good chat.

57:45
Hope
No, for. I. I think it. I think it was short because, like. Like, there. You pick. Like, we all said it was, like, a middling class movie. Like, it wasn't bad, so, like, we didn't have to, like, totally rewrite it because there is a lot of good to it. So I think that's why it's like, you can only do so much with something that's already pretty good, you know? Yeah.

58:03
Case
Yeah. Like, it's still a Star Trek movie. Like, it's like, I don't hate any Star Trek movie more than it. Than it just being disappointing for being a Star Trek movie, you know?

58:13
Hope
Right.

58:14
Sam
Yeah. And overall, there's, like, really not that much to complain about in the film. I think, like, it just has a lot of, like. I mean, we did whatever we could, but it just has a lot of elements that just kind of don't mesh completely. And so it's kind of like, it's not. Like, it's not a bad movie. There's not really a lot to critique. It's just, like, could have been better.

58:40
Hope
Right?

58:41
Case
Yeah.

58:42
Sam
Yeah.

58:44
Case
Cool. Well, Hope, thank you for bringing this movie.

58:48
Hope
No, thank you. Totally. Like, like I said it was, I definitely wanted to do this because it has, like, I said, both my men in it, and I'm like, it's just an excuse for me.

59:01
Case
So where can people find you and follow you? Like, what. What should be people focusing on if they want more Hope Rope.

59:08
Hope
So I'm with Jaguar Sharks. You can find me on YouTube. Our YouTube. Our tick tock or Instagram, you know, however, on Jaguar Sharks, I do my own personal show, Mind Brain Movies, and I talk on there with psychologists and psychology professionals, and we break down movies and TV in a psychological manner. And it's. And the girls I work with, they're crazy and hysterical, too, so, like, I pale in comparison to them.

59:38
Sam
So. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.

59:41
Case
Cool. All right, Sam, where can people find you and follow you?

59:45
Sam
Well, they can sometimes. They can always find me here, you know, whenever we drop an episode. And then occasionally I remember that our discord exists and I pop in there. But other than that, if you love Data and his emotions in this film, let Keis know, you know, how much you love that.

01:00:06
Case
Well, you can find me on all the platforms, Aace Aiken, except for Instagram, where I am holding on to my aim screen name for dear life. So you can find me there at Quetzalcoatl 5 because I was a pretentious nerd that was into mythology and the Legion of Superheroes. I'm very much on brand all the time. I just gotta be me. I just gotta be there.

01:00:26
Hope
I was wondering what that name was actually, because I was just like, what?

01:00:32
Case
Yeah, no, it's.

01:00:33
Hope
So now I know it's your aim.

01:00:35
Case
It was my aim. Screen name from high school. It's the Aztec God of the sun and the serpent Winged God. And then also the five is because of the legion of superheroes with Brainiac 5.

01:00:46
Hope
Love it. I'm loving this so much.

01:00:49
Case
I actually chose to put the five there as opposed to it getting assigned to me. That was me. That's how old that username was. And then you can find me on the Discord server for Certain pov. You can find me on Men of Steel, which is the other podcast I host, also part of the Certain POV network. You can find the videos that I post @ certainpov media on YouTube, which is growing in size in really cool ways. And I appreciate all the people who've checked that out and all the new listeners who have come from there. Like, that's so cool that we're getting additional attention that way. And we love you all. So.

01:01:26
Hope
Yeah, why would they not? You're a blast.

01:01:29
Case
Thank you. Well, so thank you for everyone for listening. Thank you for Hope for being here. Thank you, Sam, for being my ever amazing co host and.

01:01:39
Sam
Aw, thanks, Sam. Why don't thank you for being awesome.

01:01:42
Case
Oh, thank you. Why don't you show how awesome you are by letting everyone know what we have going on next time on the show.

01:01:49
Sam
Well, next time we'll be talking about Highlander 2 the Quickening. But if you enjoyed this, pass it on.

01:01:59
Case
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of View's Another Pass podcast. Don't miss an episode. Just subscribe and review the show on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com Another pass is.

01:02:12
Sam
A certain POV production. Our hosts are Sam Alicea and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Sofia Richardi. Our logo and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our intro theme is by Vin Macri. And our outro theme is by Matt Brogan.

01:02:28
Case
Yeah, I dig it.

01:02:36
Hope
I passed. Thank you.

01:02:38
Case
Another Pass.

01:02:43
Hope
It's done.

01:02:44
Sam
It's over.

01:02:46
Case
Cpov certain pov.com.