Episode 117 - Hitman #34 "Of Thee I Sing" with Jala-chan
We're visited from Jala-chan's place by Jala-chan herself and she brought goodies! In this case, she's paying off a vow to spread the word of Hitman issue 34, a famed emotional exchange between Superman and a fan (who happens to be an assassin).
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Transcription
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00:00
Case
Yeah, I like this issue. It's fun to go back to it because it's 90s as fuck, which is a thing I will say to describe it.
00:06
Jala-chan
Delving into his psychology and this, that, and the other. So thinking about different problems Superman has.
00:15
Case
All right. Yeah. Unless anyone has any curveballs they want to get out of the way before we start, I think we can get going.
00:21
Jala-chan
Good.
00:22
Case
All right. Hey, everyone.
00:27
Jmike
Try that again. Try that one again. Okay.
00:29
Case
I cannot do, like, there's always this, like, build up, and it's just like. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Mint of Steel podcast. I'm case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Jay McFolden.
00:56
Jmike
You're back, baby. Welcome back, everybody.
00:59
Case
We've got a better schedule in our sites now. People know that we've had some scheduling issues, in large part because I had a baby. And then life gets weird in a way that you don't really see. But we're recording again. Everything's going well. The sag strike kind of put some of the episodes that we had even further on the back burner because we had a whole bunch of backlog movie episodes. But we're back, and we're talking about a comic today. And for that conversation, we are joined by Jala chan.
01:24
Jala-chan
Yay. Hi. How are you doing? Hey.
01:27
Case
It's so great to have you on. I am so glad that we got connected through Matt Storm. I do the artwork for screensnark, and you were a guest on it, even though that episode is also on the back burner right now. And you suggested talking about today's comic. But before we get into all that, who are you? Where can people find you?
01:44
Jala-chan
Okay, well, I am easy to find anywhere on the Internet that I might be found under Jolla chan. Just as I was introduced. Jalachan. My podcast is called Jalachan's place at Jalachon Place. I have a brand, and it fits. It works. It's real easy. So my podcast that I do, my primary podcast, is one that switches between talking about media and talking about real life, tough topics like toxic masculinity, fat phobia, the Internet, and identity, and how those things interact with each other. So we do a lot of deep dives on topics that are hard to grapple with, but then we also talk about media, especially through the lens of all these different topics that we're covering all the time, and having these conversations with a range of people from different walks of life.
02:33
Case
Yeah. And before we started recording, you said that was a great lens to approach today's comic because that's really what this book is doing. And it's a book that I've wanted to talk about for a while because it's one of those famous kind of weird Superman stories. That's not a Superman story, it's in someone else's book. And it's with a team that normally wouldn't work on a Superman story, but everyone kind of knew about it back in the day because today we're talking about 1990 nine's Hitman issue 34, aka the Super Friends episode, where Superman has a nice little chat with Tommy Moynihan, the murderer on the rooftop. And it's a heart to heart. I'm really excited to talk about this one because I haven't really read it in a long time. I was a big fan of hitman when it was coming out.
03:15
Case
So I was reading the book monthly and then I had pretty much all the trades and so I would revisit them every now and then when I was younger. But this is 25 years ago now or 24 years ago now. So it's been a while. So I was really glad that you brought this one up. What prompted you to suggest this book?
03:33
Jala-chan
Well, I have a very weird story that I have to tell you about how I ended up reading this specific comic book because I was not reading Hitman. I only have this one issue, but I will tell you that story in a minute. Put a pin in that. I brought this up because it is one of those kind of standout things because it's Ennis writing Superman, but it's not really a Superman story where he's doing stuff. You hear it after it's already been done, whatever's been done. And he's just sitting there trying to work through his problems. But with somebody who's not Batman, he's not talking to Bruce Wayne, he's talking to Hitman instead. And just, of course, with Ennis's dark humor and everything, the way that he puts the little twist where it's like how it ends and everything is just really good.
04:20
Jala-chan
And I threw that one out there just because it stands out in my mind. It continues to stand out in my mind. And it's something that I recommend to people if they are like, oh, Superman, blah, blah. I'm not really a big fan of Superman. Well, read this one. It's pretty cool. It gets into his psychology a little bit more.
04:38
Case
Yeah, that's always sort of the fascinating things when you're talking about like an Innis book because he's so into the circumstances that put characters where they are. That's like a big driving force for a lot of the drama, and he has this deep respect for Americana and the World War II generation. Like, that's a lot of the material he does, and Superman kind of falls into that. When you look at this issue, Superman is a historic piece of the zeitgeist in the world of Hitman, and he's treated very much so in a way that's different than him being just like an active superhero. He's an icon in this. And it's weird because that's not normally what Ennis will do for his main characters. The book is Hitman.
05:18
Case
People know him really well from a lot of other things that are like inversions or perversions of that. Like, we talked about the boys on this book. Garth Ennis is the writer of the boys. It goes pretty far in the satirical levels, but when he's being sincere, it's really nice. You just don't normally get that with superpowered characters because he enjoys taking the piss out of them. But here is, like, one time where that's not happening at all.
05:43
Jala-chan
I know, and that's part of it, too. It's just like, this is a weird book for Ennis, and this is also just like an interesting book for.
05:49
Case
So, I mean, frame of reference on this one. So this is just like a really nice meeting between Superman and Tommy Moynihan. In the first arc of Hitman. He vomits on Batman's shoes just so that we see the range of the other iconic superheroes. Like, oh, yeah. J Mike, were you familiar with the series? Had you read this before?
06:13
Jmike
I had not. This is my first time hearing about it. And I was like, okay. We were trading emails back and forth, and I was like, okay, I think I've heard of this guy. I'm not really sure. And I pulled up the comic and I was like, he looks a little bit like Punisher. Like shades on.
06:29
Case
Yeah.
06:29
Jmike
And I read it and I was, this is. It's like one of those things that you would think Superman would kind of, like, push aside because he doesn't really try to think on these things, but this one kind of really affected him. And like you said, usually he has Batman to throw ideas off of because they're like best friends that never are. But Batman kind of shrugged him off. So he's kind of, like, dealing with it in his own emotional way. Sulking around. I think he's in Gotham. They say he was in.
06:54
Jala-chan
Yeah, he's in Gotham.
06:55
Jmike
It's just like a weird place to try to sit down and have these really deep thoughts with all this stuff going on around you.
07:00
Case
Yeah, he just needs to have a think.
07:04
Jmike
Something exploding in the darkness a couple miles away. The Joker's running around, and then Superman's on a roof, like, wow, this is really deep.
07:13
Jala-chan
Yeah. That's the thing, though, is because usually you see Superman doing, but here he's got to take a minute for himself to really just step back and go, okay, I have to process what just happened, and that's pretty interesting.
07:26
Jmike
And I was like, I wonder how often they don't really talk about that in the zeitgeist Superman, because everyone's like, he said, in the comic, it's Superman. You expect him push it off and keep going because everyone is like, no matter what happens, he'll save me. Superman has my back. And then there was those times when he doesn't, and I was like, this is a really cool perspective, and you don't really get a chance to see it that often. I wish we could, though.
07:52
Jala-chan
Yeah. And it did win the Eisner in 99, didn't it, for being, like, the best single issue.
07:57
Case
Yeah. This was really lauded at the time for just how strong it was and how surprising it was to come out of this book with this creative team and all of that. J Mike, I think you're right that we often don't get the look into Superman's psyche and the doubts in such a real way in mainstream books. Like, there's plenty of stories where he doubts himself and where he thinks about the things he's done and what he represents and all of that. Some are great, some are Superman grounded. There's all kinds of stories like that, but usually they have this particular viewpoint of not appreciating what Superman is to pop culture, in addition to all of that. And I think that's an interesting layer here. And the ones that try to approach it usually are through the form of analogues.
08:41
Case
Like the first issue of Asteroid City with the Samaritan is a very similar kind of introspective look at a character trying to do good and really butting up against just the limits of what you can possibly do, even with near omnipotent power. Here we've got a retouching kind of take on a character who, I mean, it's therapy for him, and that's really cool for listeners who are not familiar with the series. I should probably just say what Hitman was. So, as we mentioned, it's Garth Ennis, he was the writer for Preacher. He was the writer for the boys. He was the writer for the Punisher. So that comparison to the Punisher is a really apt one. So, J Mike, do you remember the bloodlines annuals that were looking at during the death and return of Superman stuff?
09:24
Jmike
What? Yes. How could I ever forget this?
09:27
Case
At the time, Garth Ennis was the writer on the demon, the Etrigan character, the rhyming demon character who shows up a lot when hitman comes up. So Etrigan's tie in to the bloodlines arc was a scenario where Tommy Moynihan was a hitman trying to assassinate a guy, and he got attacked by those giant space bugs. When he got attacked by the giant space bugs, he survived because he had a metagene and it manifested superpowers. Superpowers, which you don't see in this book. You rarely see it in the book, period, because Garth Ennis doesn't really care that much to write stories about superpowered beings unless they're being made fun of or kind of remote. And so his powers are x ray vision and telepathy, which are really minor powers. Like, he can't force thoughts into people's heads. He's not Xavier.
10:11
Case
He can just hear people's thoughts in the background. But it's really useful for him to know when someone is coming to kill him because he's an assassin or being able to spot a person through a wall. It's fun. It's usually just played as kind of a fun gimmick for sequences, but it's not really the big crux of the story because his power of action isn't really dictated by the abilities that he has. So it's mostly just like this sort of fun story about a low life hitman who has a little bit of a conscience. Like he won't hurt innocence, like, he won't take contracts for that, who just lives in Gotham City and so kind of just sees Gotham City.
10:42
Case
It's a book that, for the most part, didn't give a shit about DC continuity, even though it was set right in the middle of DC. And so they had lots of tie ins to events that really were excuses to do totally different kind of books. So, like the final night story where the sun went out and everything was freezing over, that issue is all of them thinking that they're going to die, so they're at a bar all hanging out, Tommy and his other hitman friends just drinking and swapping stories about times that they almost died, and that's the entire book. And then when they come out, it's like the heroes saved the day. Great.
11:13
Case
But the actual story that they're telling, it's just using the world of DC comics as a jumping off point for these very human kind of stories or very funny kind of action movie kind of parody stories. Like, it's a Garth Ennis book. And this is where you'll see a lot of the stuff that would go on to be like his Punisher run. It's a very similar tone, but the character is a relatively amoral hitman who is okay with just killing anyone who he's being paid to kill, as long as it's not someone who he clearly thinks is a bad person. But they live in this world. They talk about this world. It's fun that we get this issue because Superman is often referenced in the book as just like a pop culture figure.
11:51
Case
Like, early in the book's run is when Superman had just come back and had the long hair. And so there were people passing a petition around to get signed so that he would cut his hair because it wasn't a good look for the kids. And it was like the old cranky irish bartender who is an ex hitman who runs the place that they all hang out being like, it's not good for the kids, him looking like a hippie. So, like, really fun. Know, like I said, using DC Comics stuff as a jumping off point for either humor or for kind of these deeper moments. And Tommy Moynihan has popped up in other stuff, but for the most part, he's Garth Ennis'baby.
12:27
Case
The character is really not going to be touched by anyone besides him, except for in the most cameo of cameo roles, like when he auditioned to join the JLA, which was under Grant Morrison and Ennis, her friends. So it was like, oh, yeah, and that was cool. You can make a joke about that, but yeah, that's that book. It doesn't really need a lot of explanation. Like, this issue doesn't need a lot of explanation aside from the fact that, yes, this is a hitman, so you know that it's not weird that he pulls out a gun and shoots someone. But I guess if you didn't know that going spoilers case.
12:57
Jmike
Spoilers.
12:59
Case
Yeah. I'm just saying, I'm guessing if you didn't know that the book was called hitman, you might be surprised in this issue, but otherwise, how would you miss it? But, okay, I know. That's what I'm saying. There's no big spoiler to be had for this kind of book. But at the same time, it's kind of just like a fun little side story in here.
13:16
Jmike
I mean, I still wasn't expecting the ending.
13:21
Case
Okay.
13:21
Jmike
I was like, oh, that's touching.
13:25
Case
There for murder.
13:27
Jala-chan
Well, I mean, because I was like, oh, this is Ennis. I was like, okay, that makes sense. You've said it before on the show. Know the major drama for Superman isn't what happens to him, but what happens to people around him and his capacity as related to that. And this is exactly what this book is about. This is about him grappling with having failed to save someone when there is a crisis and looking at that person and seeing their expectation in their eyes when he sees them for that one moment before he fails to save them, and then everything explodes or whatever. Because in here, he's landing on the rooftop, he's talking to Hitman, and he's just know, oh, well, I failed to save somebody. I was so sure. I knew that I was going to be able to save everyone.
14:16
Jala-chan
No one's going to die. He tells that to these people on a spaceship that is accelerating off into space. And then once they hit their hyperdrive or whatever, the engines start to go nuclear and he has to get everyone out. So he thinks that the captain is dead, but he's actually just, like, trapped in some of the floorboards or something, and he's still alive. But Superman is holding back the explosion so that the rest of the crew can get out. And he sees that captain for just a moment before everything goes to hell, and he can't save that person, and he's beating himself up about it.
14:55
Case
Yeah, that's a pretty good nutshell of the main issue that we're kind of dealing with there. The craziest part is that it's introduced as the story that's going to be on the news about how Superman saved the crew. Everyone's going to be like, man, Superman just did such a great job. It's not Superman failing in total, it's Superman failing in this one specific aspect where there was a person that he couldn't get to because he was in lead shielding, because it was a nuclear reactor. He had tried to stop it. They couldn't see him. It's in space, so they couldn't hear him. Superman couldn't do anything except for at that exact moment, from that exact angle, was able to spot that there was one person he missed because they told.
15:32
Jmike
Him he had died. They told him the captain was already dead, too. So he wasn't expecting that.
15:36
Jala-chan
Yeah. So the exact line from the comic was, Commander Kennedy hadn't died. He was trapped in the subflooring with his radio down, hidden from view of the airlock. He'd seen me holding the shield, the cruise escape, all of it. It was so plain what he was thinking in that one instant when we met each other's eyes. I'll take it to my grave. You're Superman and you're not going to save me. There's a quote that I like a lot. Not in this book. It's just, like, a general quote that is said among people. The me you created in your head is not my responsibility. And that's something that Superman doesn't know at all at this point. He is really, like, caretaker person to the max, someone who is taking on more responsibility, like the responsibility of the Superman in everyone's head.
16:19
Jala-chan
He's taking that on his shoulders too, which is not his burden to bear, but he's taking it anyway, or trying to. And that's why he's beating himself up here.
16:28
Case
It's such a wild element for this character because he's grappling with being Superman. And again, that's different than just being a superhero. It's that level of distinction that you can only really do with some of these really established characters. And arguably, comic book superheroes. Like Superman might be it, like, even someone like Captain America or like Batman or Spider man, possibly Wonder Woman, I guess, might feel the sort of weight of just the reputation. But, I mean, the genre rests on Superman's back. The idea of someone flying through space to save people from a rocket ship, that's a Superman concept in how it is originated.
17:03
Case
And only that character can really tackle with the thought that in universe, people see him that way, the way that we see him when looking at the stories that are on the newsstands, the idea of what we have been feeding kids since 1938 of, like, look at this guy who's going to show up and save everything. And the fact that could be causing him cognitive stress is so fucking wild.
17:27
Jala-chan
So you already mentioned this book came out a really long time ago. So since the time that I first read this when I was a freshman in college, coming back to it now, I am an adult, and I take care of my disabled parents. So I am a caretaker. So caretaker responsibilities and mental stuff is stuff that I'm really hyper aware of. So coming back to this book was interesting, especially because when I look at Superman, I'm like, wow, Superman is really codependent. Because in a codependent relationship, you have the person who needs someone constantly for everything, relies on that person for everything, and then you have the person who needs to be needed. And that's Superman. He's taking on more weight.
18:08
Jala-chan
He's doing the thing that you need to not do when you're a caretaker, which is taking on too much and taking on that responsibility. Like, not having those boundaries. Right. He doesn't have any boundaries. He's not putting a boundary on what he's letting himself be responsible for. He's trying to take on literally every single thing.
18:26
Case
I mean, it's a scenario where outside of me having this one moment where it's like it's our first manned mission to Mars, I'm like, in the, like.
18:33
Jmike
I feel like, yeah, this reminds me of case.
18:37
Case
What's that?
18:37
Jmike
This reminds me, it's like the opposite of Superman returns when they're doing the spaceflight and the ship gets locked onto the space shuttle. Except there, Superman's actually able to save everybody. And this is the time that he looks back and he's like, wow, I couldn't save that one person this one time.
18:53
Case
Yeah. I mean, it's a very classic Superman situation, noting that it's the scenario where, okay, so space Shuttle in space has an issue in the real world that's already game over, or at best, they figured out there's no working that around. So real world, everyone there is already dead. So then you allow for a scenario where Superman is able to get there, which there's a difference between Spider man being able to pick up a car and being able to fly into space and deal with something like that. So we're talking about power of action that is well beyond just, like, superhuman. Like, we're talking about impossible wish fulfillment levels of power of action. So he gets there and he saves all of the crew except for one. He does the best job that anyone could possibly do.
19:44
Case
And with the information he had, it wasn't like he was like, be on the lookout for this guy. And then he finally found him. He thought he was dead. He was in a situation where, again, most of his senses weren't working because he's in space. There's all this nuclear shielding around him. So of course, he couldn't see this one guy who he wasn't looking for. It's so much pressure to put on yourself when you're like, oh, man. The person I thought was dead, I could have actually saved. And I didn't do enough diligence to figure it out. If he hadn't looked, he would have been fine with his day. The circumstances wouldn't have changed. Like, if he had looked to his right instead of his left, everything would have been the exact same situation. He just wouldn't have had that moment.
20:18
Case
And it's important to get those emotions out there because it is super understandable to beat yourself up about it, even if it is completely impossible. And you did the best job you could and everything. Jala, you're totally right about the caretaker situation, like, bringing all this additional burden to it and letting that prevent yourself from letting go of the limited feelings because we fail every day. But for Superman, he just can't let that be enough.
20:43
Jala-chan
Well, and that's because the way that people work is that especially if you have a sequence of, you excel, you do everything right. You hit all the notes, you do everything better than anyone else. That one failure is going to feel astronomical to you versus someone who fails at a higher rate because that person is more accustomed to dealing with that. And Superman doesn't have to come to grips with failing very often. So for him, that failure is monumental because he's so used to doing everything and hitting the nail on the head.
21:19
Case
Yeah. Now, the other side of that, though, is the actual speech that Moynihan gives. And I think it is a good speech overall. But God damn it, is that the spot where I was like, man, this issue is 90s as fuck, and it's a sweet story, but, like, man, the feeling of, well, really, it's like the rah americanism of it all from Innis. And that's not weird for Innis to go there, but it's also not weird for him to go the complete other direction and where he gives this whole speech about, like, all these people are coming here and they're bringing their baggage. But you're the ultimate ideal of american. Like, you're the ultimate immigrant story, which was a really popular take in the. Was a period called the end of history by idiots because they thought that, like, oh, conflicts are done.
22:05
Case
All the superpowers have been subdued to the might of the US. The US is like, we're here to help. We're the champions. We're the world police scenario. Before we had a reckoning with all that, right? Before all, like, this is such a fucking Bill Clinton era book. It just feels that way where it's, no, we got this, right? Yeah, we beat the Nazis. We beat the commies. We're doing our best. And, yeah, we might have some arguing and some bullshit. There might still be some things that we have to work out, but we're doing good. And, man, that hits so different 24 years later.
22:38
Jala-chan
What's interesting about it is the other part of that conversation where Tommy's saying, this could be the greatest place on earth. It really could be. You've got all these people and they're looking for a way to do the better life, but what do they do? They hang on to all the things that got them into trouble in the first place. They want to go on fighting the same wars and hating the same people they did in the old world. They want to be italian or greek or irish or polish or russian or african or vietnamese or cambodian or whatever. So they hang on to all of that and they stick to their own kind and everyone stays suspicious of everyone else. And for what? Culture, history? What the hell is that?
23:14
Jala-chan
A bunch of stuff your folks said you had to believe in all your life. Does that make it real? And that part right there rings even truer now than it did back then. Like, everybody's so polarized these days that it's like, yeah, that part still rings real true. So when I read that, I was like, who? And then right after that is the raw America stuff.
23:33
Case
It's true. But it also is like a narrow minded view of society. I guess it's very much the melting pot kind of idea, which is a limited kind of perspective where it's like, no, you're american. Not like, whatever you are. There's limitations to that. And it's very true for the character of Tommy Moynihan. The backstory for him is that he is adopted. He doesn't even know the fact that he has an irish last name is anything related to his own history. The character feels very disconnected from any sort of cultural background besides just his relationships with his immediate friends and close mentors. So for him, the feeling of having this big cultural significance that is being brought with you to wherever you go rings hollow.
24:15
Case
So for, like, he sees that as being kind of a parallel structure with Superman where there isn't, like, a big culture to be around. Like, Superman has found his home here. And that whole. The greatest immigrant story idea of Superman was really popular in the. That's the John Byrne stuff. Kevin Smith wrote a whole thing about why he loves Superman as this great immigrant. Again, it feels like a very specific kind of take on the character that I don't mind, but it's so interesting how that was the one at that time whereas I think there's now kind of a broader appreciation of, like, yeah, he would have the love of his family and his found home, but there is also the culture that he's bringing with it and the elements that he's preserving. There are all these elements.
24:56
Case
There is the hopeful aspect that he is ushering in just by virtue of how different he is. Like the dynamic shift. All of those are things that more modern writers have sort of wrestled with and sort of figured out that there's a balance to it all because it's really easy to swing the other way, too. Like, the 70s had a lot of books where it was like, yeah, he's a stranger in a strange land. He doesn't feel at home here. It's a very different kind of take on Superman. But like I said, it's just, like, shockingly specific to the era, the way they present the character.
25:21
Jala-chan
Absolutely. And again, just like, even the fact that we had the attack on the Twin Towers just a couple of years after this really dates this book and puts it in very specifically an era in such a way that there's a marked difference.
25:38
Case
Yeah.
25:39
Jala-chan
What I thought was kind of fun was the fact that right after trying to talk to Superman and talk him down and talk him up and say, hey, you're missing the fact that you are this wonderful, fantastic person that does all this good because you're focused on this one thing that you failed to do, trying to boost him up and everything. Superman is so wrapped attention and feeling his feels and stuff that Tommy has the balls to point out to Superman, hey, you see that guy over there? That guy is this terrible, horrible person. And that's his target, that he's going to kill the moment Superman leaves and he's showing Superman who he's going to kill and everything.
26:15
Jala-chan
And it's, know, I wonder if Superman reads the paper the next day and sees that and is like, that guy died that same night that guy pointed him out to me on the rooftop. But I'm not really 100% sure whether or not Superman was savvy of what was going to happen or what. Because there was this one panel where after Tommy points this guy out and says all this stuff, Superman, right before he smiles, has this super dark expression on his face, and it's very shaded. And he's like, it seems like he might actually be in the know that this guy might be doing something. I don't know. It's kind of debatable looking at his face, the way that the art is drawn for this, like, with all the very heavy shadows and the kind of slight smirk on his face.
27:02
Jala-chan
It's kind of questionable. And I like that element that you're not really sure.
27:06
Case
Yeah, I do want to pivot to the art. So there is a head cannon reason where this could all work. Because I thought about that. Because Superman flies away and then he immediately takes out a sniper rifle and shoots a guy. And they're like, yeah, he had to hear the. Right. So, like, the headcanon reason that I think it could all work is that even though they're not showing anything like that, Tommy is able to hear everyone's thoughts around him at any given time. It could very well be that he's hearing that Superman just really isn't thinking about know, and that he's feeling comfortable because he's hearing like, oh, I like this guy, yada, yada kind of stuff in this all. And how wrapped up in his own personal drama that he is. So it could be that.
27:47
Case
Plus, then he can probably tell at what point Superman kind of starts losing the ability to hear stuff around him. If he's like flying up into space, this is like trying to throw out an explanation for why he's able to murder a person. Two panels after Superman flies. Yeah, it works, but it's either you're thinking about it or you're overthinking about it. And so there's that. But yeah, no, he just murders a person in know who. I guess he's just aware that Superman's going to be so caught up in the whole astronaut thing is going to be the front page that he's not looking at the Gotham Gazette and being like, oh, one guy got murdered.
28:24
Jmike
Hey, wait a minute.
28:27
Case
I don't know. It's certainly a very ballsy move. There.
28:31
Jala-chan
It was at that point right there where I'm like, oh, yeah, this is the Ennis that I know because I knew Ennis from the preacher books and stuff. Like, you know, I didn't read all of his work or anything, but just from the other things I read, I'm like, okay, this part right here, this really rings of the other stuff from him.
28:49
Case
And it's extremely like, you could just take it for granted that it's like, well, yeah, he's probably up there to snipe someone because it's a hitman book or, hey, he's up here, like, to smoke a cigarette and just have some thoughts because he grew up around this part. Meets Superman. Superman flies away, murders a guy.
29:07
Jala-chan
Well, I mean, it's very funny. Know, Superman could have possibly seen the weapon. Superman could, like, there's other things know if he weren't really caught up in his own mind, but if he's super caught up in his own mind and trying to tune out everything else, all the cries for help and this, that and the other that are perpetual because he needs to do, like, he could have turned everything off for a while just to let himself process. But at the same time, I'm just like, he could have seen the weapon or whatever. And I mean, like, again, it's maybe a little sus. That this guy is like, hey, you see that guy over there? He's a super terrible know. Why do you know all this information, rando, on the roof here.
29:48
Case
Again, this is all like. Well, there's, like, head cannon explanations, but it is weird because he scans his lungs when he's, like, smoking. And it's like, I wish you could see the damage. You're like, I wish you could see how it's probably not a good thing you have a sniper rifle on your hip right now.
30:00
Jala-chan
Mean. But that's part of the fun of it, too, though, is because Superman here is just like, thank you, beaming, and then flies off and is happy. And that's the comedy bit here.
30:13
Jmike
I feel like Superman had to know who he was because Batman probably fully aware of who this guy is.
30:20
Jala-chan
He puked on his shoes, right? That was.
30:22
Jmike
Batman is fully aware of who he.
30:25
Case
So that's the thing.
30:26
Jmike
Best friends here.
30:27
Case
Later, there is a time where they have a JLA team up with hitman, and Superman's like, tommy. And then they're like, you know this guy? He's a fucking hitman. He's like, he is.
30:41
Jala-chan
Well, I mean, if we're still going from, again, that one panel where he's got the super shading, the dark, heavy shadows on his eyes and everything, and the little smirk where you're not really 100% sure what Superman is thinking or anything. He could just be like, what do you mean? He's a hitman? I didn't know this. Because he didn't stop him either.
31:01
Case
Right. I mean, that gets even weirder on to that one, because at that point, kind of what also happens, this whole issue, is that Superman fails to stop one person.
31:10
Jala-chan
Yeah.
31:12
Case
So let's talk about the art, though, because I think it's an interesting juxtaposition. Like, so it's John McCree, who is the regular artist on the book. He has this very kind of jolly, you pointed out, like, the dark shadows. Like, there's this noir kind of component to the way that it's a lot of shadows for everything. And then there's this sort of over the top kind of cartoony expressions to it all. It's not, like silly per se, but there are characters who are very silly. There's a superhero in the Hitman series called Six Pack who is a beer themed superhero with a gut sticking out of his spandex.
31:44
Jmike
Say that again. Wait, what?
31:46
Case
There's a superhero named Six Pack, who is a beer themed superhero in the setting, who is a giant lush. There's also, like, a demon just running around who's friendly, who can only say the word beta and just hangs out at their bar with them. There's a lot of weirdness. It's Ennis working with a fairly cartoony kind of artist. And so it's a good look. But drawing Superman, he draws this huge barrel chested character who feels like he doesn't quite fit into this world. But then you get these dark shadows on his eyes and so forth where he's really thinking about things and you start to accept him. But that first panel where he's there, it's just like he sticks out like a sore thumb. Right.
32:23
Jala-chan
Well, part of what makes it cartoony, when I'm flipping through the book, which I've got pulled up and I'm looking at it right now, is the fact that there's not a whole lot of hatching or cross hatching. It's very stark, light and dark. So you've got really solid blacks. There's not, like gradients or anything to it. Solid colors, solid blacks as the shadows, rather than so much like a gradient of color going from one to another. So that lends itself to being kind of cartoony in that then, you know, there's also emphasis on some features over others. Like, he has this. When he says, thanks tommy, it's this super shit ain't grin. And it's like the biggest chin, biggest mouth, and, like, little eyeballs. It's very know, but it's exaggerated, like emote in a way that's larger than life.
33:12
Jala-chan
But what's interesting to me is that this is taking place, essentially at night, but it's not really nightlit other than the fact that it's got that hard darkness to it. The rest of it's very bright. Like, the colors are bright. They're not darkened for nighttime or anything.
33:25
Case
Yeah, I think that's appropriate, though. They're, like, in a city and it doesn't seem to be that late. There's a lot of lights on around them. So it makes sense. There's color. It might be different colors than what you would see during the daytime, but there's illumination coming from a lot of directions. But then you get these really harsh shadows. I have never been fully clear what Tommy's coat looks like for real because it's green and black, but the black is, like, enveloping of the green. So is it all green and it's just being colored dark? Are there, like, black sections to it? What's going on with that one? And I've known about this character for 26 years now. 27 years somewhere in that ballpark, and still no idea what the coat officially looks like if it was in a well lit room.
34:03
Jala-chan
Well, the panel where Superman even shows up, his head is real small compared to the rest of his body. He's just, like, super thick. Super thick. But what's very good about that is that Tommy in the background is just kind of smoking, and he's got, like, the little startled lines above his head, dropping his cigarette. It's very good.
34:22
Case
Yeah. Now I'm trying to zoom in and be like, is he holding something in his left hand?
34:27
Jala-chan
It looks like he's holding, like, a magazine, because he does use a magazine or something and has Superman sign it at the end. So that's what's in his.
34:34
Case
Oh, right, yeah, in the page.
34:38
Jala-chan
Yeah, it's a newstime. Yeah.
34:40
Case
He's reading with Superman on the COVID so. Perfect.
34:43
Jala-chan
Yeah, with Superman on the COVID I.
34:47
Case
Was like, is he holding the briefcase with a sniper rifle? But no, it's the mechanism.
34:51
Jala-chan
Yeah, but some of those parts where it's like, what is even going on with his coat? Some of the parts in there, it's just, like, large chunks of black and large chunks of green. And I don't know. I don't know what parts are black, what parts are green?
35:02
Case
It's anybody's guess, and I'm fine with that. It's also fun the way his sunglasses kind of blend into his hair. It's just like all this dark shadows on the character. And most of the scenes that we have for the character, either while he's actively performing a hit or while he's hanging out at a dimly lit bar, you know, it all fits for this character in general. McCree is like an artist that I really like in books that he is meant to be in. And this is like that kind of a book where you can have these really exaggerated facial features for characters. Like we talked about the Superman smile on the same page where Tommy is trying to get him to sign the book. He's, like, got this big, toothy, nervous kind of smile for it, and he's, like, covered with sweat.
35:36
Case
Or if you look at the mobster that he's there to kill, when they have the panels of that, you can feel the grease and sweat coming off of this dirty, awful person. It's like if you took Ron Jeremy and Danny DeVito and you put them into a blender, and then while they're in the blender, you then pour in, like, a dump truck of grease and then spit out the worst version of this hedgehog person. You've got that, but you can feel it well.
36:08
Jala-chan
And then, too, just the face that Tommy makes when he's just, like, berating Superman or is chiding him a little bit where he's just, like, smirking with his cigarette and he's just. You don't even see who you really are to know. And then he goes off and gives him his pep talk or whatever, but he's got this knowing smile and poking fun at him a little bit. Poking fun at Superman in such a way.
36:34
Case
Yeah. I mean, hitman, in a lot of ways was like a book for Ennis to be able to kind of just vent his thoughts about superhero stuff with, like, a mouthpiece character. Not always the same mouthpiece in this case, it's Tommy, but some other characters kind of act that way. And I think it goes so well with the sort of just, like, schlubby kind of design that McCree will put on characters. The cigarettes are so dramatically lit every time they're ignited, and the inhaling of it all, it feels like that. Sort of like I'm hanging on to the cigarette because it's the only thing keeping the world together right now kind of thing, while at the same time having so much 90s snark.
37:07
Jala-chan
Well, and every single cigarette is, like, crumpled, right? Every single one of them. Like, I'm flipping through here, and I'm just like, every single scene that there's a cigarette, it's bent, crumpled. It's definitely been in somebody's pocket and been sat on or something.
37:23
Case
It kind of makes me think of in Romeo and Michelle's high school reunion, like when Janine Garofalo reveals that she invented a patent on a cigarette that burns faster, so you could finish it in your break between glasses. And they just speed up, like, the cigarette, just, like, being inhaled completely into her mouth. It feels like that. It's always like he's burning through them so fast. You could imagine if you're in the room with him, the ashtray would always just be completely full. Like, you would be tossing it out like every, like, 45 minutes, and like.
37:49
Jala-chan
How the fuck is it full again, right?
37:53
Case
Secret extra superpower is just not dying from the amount of smoke.
37:56
Jala-chan
I do want to circle back and tell you my weird story about how I ended up reading.
38:00
Case
Oh, yeah, sorry.
38:01
Jala-chan
It's kind of wild.
38:02
Case
Please do. Yeah.
38:03
Jala-chan
So in the year 2000, I graduated high school, and then I was going to be going into college at the University of Houston Honors college. Well, they were having over that summer a little welcoming dinner kind of thing, and they put some of the current students who were older in with some of the newbies that were coming in. And I got sat at a table with a couple of people. One of them was a girl who was doing the voice acting for Cutie Honey from ADV's dub of that anime. And then the other was this writer and journalist. And I ended up talking to the journalist guy a lot more. So much so that we ended up exchanging emails for a while.
38:41
Jala-chan
And while were exchanging emails, he told me one time, he's randomly, he's just like, I would like to send you a box of stuff, just media. And I want you to go through this box and consume all of this media in your own time. And then when you're done, send the box to somebody else and keep passing it along like chain mail, but actually with media. So I'm like, okay, cool. Sounds like a plan to me. So he sent me this box. The box contained various things. Dr. Strangelove gun with occasional music, which is a book. Then we had the hitman number 34. There was watchmen and some other things like that. And he basically wrote it up as like, oh, all of this stuff will change your life. That'll change your perspective or this, that, or the other for, like, forever.
39:27
Jala-chan
And this issue was in there, and that's how I ended up reading it the first time. So it was kind of weird that he's like, here, I'm going to send you this box of stuff. Send the box on when you're done. It's like, okay, what kind of monkey paw wish did I get? Am I cursing somebody if I give them this box? I don't know what's happening here. But anyway, I did eventually dole out the rest of the stuff to people who were interested in those things. The only thing that I still have to this day is that hitman comic, because I didn't know anybody who was really into comics to pass that on. To, but I ended up recommending it to people when they were interested in reading something.
40:02
Jala-chan
So I'm still spreading the good word about the book, but I still have it on my shelves to this day from this random person that I talked to who was like, this box of stuff will change your life. And this book was in there. So I don't know what you all think about this. Is this a life changing book?
40:18
Jmike
Definitely. A fun read.
40:20
Jala-chan
A fun read, yes. A good book, yes. But I don't know if it's going to drastically change my perspective on life, the universe, and everything.
40:28
Case
I think at the time when this came out, it was a more novel approach to discussing Superman. And how can Superman be interesting? And I think that we have seen, one, the characters has just evolved a little bit since then, but two, I think we've seen ones that require a little bit less buy in to sort of get to the same kind of point, like these kind of like perfect snapshots of the character. Great though they may be, at a certain point, it just feels dated. And there is an element here that it just kind of feels like an older comic that if I was giving to a person who was like, I don't like Superman, I don't even know if I like comics. This would just be a hard one to throw them into at the first point.
41:02
Case
But I think it still holds up as being a really good take on that 90s Superman right there, combined with the weight of history of the character. For me, Superman's secret identity is like my, like, oh, if you don't like Superman, check out this book. This will probably change your mind. Even though, weirdly, it's, like, about a character who's not actually Superman. Yeah, it's like, kind of in the same ballpark of like, well, if you're open to enjoying the character, this is a really good way to look at him beyond what you just kind of just generally know from the pop culture element of the character. And the only reason I don't think that this is higher up on my list is because it is also super reliant on. Here's the pop culture of the character.
41:40
Case
The fact that it's a shuttle accident, which is a thing that we seen in so many Superman movies. Even Superman four has a scene like this.
41:50
Jmike
We don't talk about that. We promise not to bring it up again.
41:57
Case
Well, I've got news for you. Because of the Sagstrike, the episode we recorded on Superman four has not come out yet, so we're not under any boycott. Just yet for that. But where this feels like, okay, we're talking about Superman as a pop culture figure as much as we're talking about him in the world of DC comics and all that. It just kind of feels like the specific Darth Ennis take on the Superman mythos as he's perceiving it in 1999. And like I said, I rather like it. It just wouldn't be like my first one, but it would be up there if someone was like, oh, yeah, I like comics and I like more down to earth stuff.
42:31
Case
I might sneak in a couple of hitman issues and then have this one in the mix so that I can kind of see them towards coming back towards the big Superman kind of stuff. Because Hitman's also just a really fun book. This is a pretty good issue, but the series is great. I do want to say, man, if you haven't read it's funny. It's really funny. It's dated. It's very casual about murder. Surprise.
42:54
Jala-chan
Yeah.
42:56
Case
There's a relatively early arc in the series where they end up in a zombie outbreak inside an aquarium. And so it's mostly like zombie seals that they're fighting for the entire issue. So there are good ones to check out. It's definitely a fun series if you're like, oh, this sounds like a weird book. Yeah. So not life changing, but definitely good, I guess, is sort of the endpoint on that.
43:14
Jala-chan
Yeah. It's kind of interesting that you say that you would recommend secret identities before this. It's been a while since I've read secret identity, but for me, I liked this individual issue more than I liked that. And I don't know if it's because it's, like, snappy and short versus being a longer thing and it gets its point in the thing and then you're done. The brevity of it makes it more impactful to me or what, per se. I would have to go back and revisit secret identity as well.
43:41
Case
I think that's more in his head by virtue that the viewpoint character is the Clark Kent in that. And so I think this issue does what I think is a great way to deal with Superman where he's not the main character. We talked about how, like, Jimmy Olsen being less of an important thing in comics has been bad for Superman because he's such a great way of looking at Superman without having to be fully in the person and deal with the anxiety and deal with all the stuff that goes on of just being a person day to day, let alone someone with the power of action to reshape the world. And I think secret identity did a really good job of doing that.
44:15
Case
And I feel like most comics want to have the protagonist be the main superhero character in it and us be inside their head, as opposed to other people looking from the outside in. And this is doing the outside in stuff very well. It's just an older kind of storytelling perspective there, because the main character is Tommy Moynihan, the main character for this book, as opposed to Superman. But we are still getting that element of, like, here's the inner monologue, here's the inner stuff going on with Superman. I don't know. And again, that book is, what, two years later? So we're not talking about also a way more modern book there. I don't know. Like I said, I think that would just be where I go first before this one. Also, I like the art, but the art takes more investment to be here for.
44:58
Case
It's not quite as clean like that. Kind of stylized. And some of it is stylized to be intentionally ugly in a way that you're like, oh, okay, once you're in for the tone of the book, you're in for it. But you might look at it and.
45:10
Jala-chan
Be like, yeah, definitely. Secret identity is better for looking at.
45:15
Case
Right.
45:16
Jala-chan
Generally. Intentionally. So I'm not taking a shit on this book or it's art. I'm just saying that for somebody who's not really into comics or whatever, you want something that's appealing to the eye, not intentionally made to look rougher.
45:31
Case
Yeah. I mean, that's why Alex Ross stuff is really good to give to people who aren't familiar with comics, because it's so pretty and not realistic. But, yes, realistic, but obviously not true realism there. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best comic ever to give a person Marvel's. But Marvel's is a really good introduction to those kind of books because it's like, oh, look at what the world looks like from the perspective of someone on the street. So, so pretty and impressive what they can do. And then you have to have more of an investment to get into the more know. Like, a Jack Kirby book is hard to just give a person and say, like, check it out. Because Jack Kirby kind of requires you to be like, oh, I know what I'm looking at when I'm looking at comics.
46:07
Jala-chan
Yeah.
46:08
Case
Which is funny because he's invented so much of the language of art, but it's just very striking in a way that is energetic and fun and so forth. But you need to be coming to it for comics as opposed to if a person's not into comics. I don't know, Jay. Mike, is there anything about this issue that stood out to you that we have not discussed so far?
46:25
Jmike
It's a really good, like, I really enjoy seeing you peel back the layers of Superman and you're like, oh, man, he's just like me.
46:32
Jala-chan
For real?
46:33
Case
For real.
46:35
Jala-chan
Well, especially, yeah. If you're a parent or a caretaker of any type, you understand a lot of where he's coming from psychologically here.
46:44
Jmike
Yeah, it's really refreshing to see the stuff that he struggles with on a day to day basis, even though he is, in fact, like Superman. And everyone holds him up to these super high standards because you expect him to come through in the end. He's not Batman, he's Superman. The ending kind of caught me because I'd never really read any of these books before, and I was like, oh, okay, then this is how we're going to do this. Cool. It's a really good book. I will recommend it for sure.
47:13
Case
Yeah. And the fact that it's available on DC Universe Infinite is a really great part of that. That's one of the nice parts of modern comic reading is that you can reference all these books that people already have a subscription. They can just check it out. It's not comprehensive, but it has a lot of the good stuff out there. So this is a really good one to point people to because you can literally just type Hitman 34 in and it's going to pop up no problem. It's not like an issue of Superman because now it's like, which volume of Superman are we talking about? Are we talking about this one? Are we talking about the renamed volume Adventures of Superman that only ran for this stretch, but have the numbering from the original run of Superman. Is it the relaunch?
47:48
Case
There's one series it's very easy to point took no time to search, whereas, like, man, there have been so many the issues that we've been trying to find that it's on DC Universe Infinite, but it's not under the main series. You have to find a trade that for some reason is scanned into DC Universe and be like, oh, well, I know that it was published into this thing and it's available this way, even though it's just a random issue from, like, 1975.
48:09
Jala-chan
That's such a headache with that. But I like this book, too, just because even if you don't know anything about Hitman, you can pick this up and go through it and get a good feel for the character. Get a good feel for how the stories run just from this one issue. I have not read any other hitman, but I know about Hitman and how Hitman is written from this one issue. And unlike a lot of superhero stories, where it's like, oh, you have to reference these seven other books under these different authors and artists. Like, this one is not one that you really necessarily need to look at anything else to understand what's going on. It's nice and encapsulated in and of itself.
48:48
Case
I'm just, like, clicking through the end and it's like, oh, right. Then he calls up his budy and just makes fun of his weight for, like, four panels. Okay, yeah, you're in for that kind of a character.
48:58
Jala-chan
Yeah.
48:58
Case
It's definitely a very easy to just come in cold to the context of the issue. Like I said, the art style kind of means that you need to be down for reading a comic book, as opposed to, like, an Alex Ross kind of like my first comic introduction. I don't mean to be that mean to Ross. Like, Ross is obviously the amazingly talented artist, but it's easy for me to show my grandparents. Here's this beautiful painted watercolor of Superman picking up a car. This would be like, but if you're down, it's so good. It's such an interesting take on Superman's psychology and all of that, and then how it relates to the man on the street who doesn't know him already. It's not his friends at the Daily Planet.
49:41
Case
It's just this guy who is kind of up on some of the stuff, but not really. He's got superpowers, but it's not like we're talking about a character who pressed the sun. Well, it's not just the power level, but it's not like he could easily get in touch with most of these superheroes. The team ups that he's had with some of them are, like, weird kind of funny ones. Side note, Kyle Rayner never carries money. And so when hitman went drinking with him, Kyle stiffed him on the tab. Just throwing that one out there because that was a funny story. Yeah. I mean, he's a low powered character who is also very much a criminal.
50:15
Case
And so it's not like in this bigger world, he knows a little bit about the Gotham stuff because it's Gotham and can't walk down the street without bumping into someone in the bat family in Gotham City.
50:25
Jala-chan
Right.
50:25
Case
But aside from that, when final night happens. It's just sort of like, oh, yeah, the news says that the sun went out. Well, shit. Like, he doesn't know any more than I would in that circumstance. He's just there. Yes, he has met actual devils. That's its own kind of thing. I guess. He's primed to be able to have a conversation with Superman because he's touched on the weirdness of the world but isn't actually that far removed from the normal person still.
50:49
Jala-chan
And then know he's just going at the, oh, can you sign this for me? And, oh, yeah, it's for your know, like, the boys are never going to believe this when I tell them, know, that kind of thing. So he's acting, he's fanboying out just like anybody else who would never imagine seeing Superman would feel.
51:10
Case
The best part here is that, you know that if Superman just said like, yeah, he had me sign it for the boys at Noonan's, Batman would be like, that's a hitman bar. Like, what the fuck?
51:20
Jmike
Yeah, why are you. Clark.
51:23
Case
Like, I have so many questions, clark, what the fuck? He pointed out the mobster do anything.
51:31
Jala-chan
Well, it'd be really funny if know. Clark's like, well, you just ignored, oh, have their little bro fight.
51:40
Case
I was researching things. Damn it. I like that element that, like, Batman, the way Batman approaches justice is. He's like, someone's at fault. I need to find who's at fault. I need vengeance. And that's not therapy that Superman needed in that moment. He's like, no, I understand that there was faulty construction on that shuttle, but at the same time, I'm also just sad that someone died.
52:01
Jala-chan
Yeah.
52:02
Case
And I do actually really like that juxtaposition between the two. Like, what Batman and Superman are each out respectively for. So it's so wild that Garth Ennis, who most people know his superhero stuff, being the boys, which is the most mean spirited and oftentimes a very funny way, but very mean spirited take on these superhero characters to really get them. It's a really fun issue for that. It's a really good, just like, you can easily pick it up. The book is called Hitman. The fact that he kills a person is like, yeah, no, I expect that part. Even if you don't expect that spot in the story, even if that's still a surprise, there's no context there. You're like, what? How could that happen in a book called Hitman? Yeah, conversation's great. The flashback's great.
52:43
Case
It's a shockingly sincere take on Superman from a writer who is very rarely sincere that way with characters that are so larger than life. And it's a lot of fun just to look at. So, Jala, thank you for bringing this on. If people enjoyed your perspective on this because you really had, I think, really great thoughts about the relationship between the characters and what Superman's going through there. Where can people find you? Where can people follow you? What have you got going on? All your plugs, right?
53:11
Jala-chan
So easy to find. I am Jolla John everywhere. I can be found on the Internet. So all the socials, all the everything. Jollachon also, Jollichan Place is where my podcast is. I also do, I didn't mention this earlier, pop up randomly on Duckfeed TV's thelevel podcast about video games. So if you like video games, I'm on a video game roundtable show, and that is@thelevelpodcast.com none of my super deep takes are on the level that's just video games for video game sake. But all of my stuff, my deeper takes on things that's going to be Jolly Chan's place.
53:45
Case
Awesome. As for us, well, you can find me on most of the socials at case Aiken, except for Instagram, where I'm holding on to that damn aim screen name for dear life, where you can find me at Ketzel coatle five. I was really pretentious in high school, I'm sorry. Which includes Blue sky now. So come find me on Blue sky at case Aiken. That seems to be where a lot of people are kind of settling. Now, we've made contact with a lot of artists and writers out there, which is really cool. And that was a thing that we really love Twitter for. So now that is so close to burning down, I just keep on being surprised that it's still alive day after day. I'm happy that it is.
54:20
Case
I don't want it to go away completely just because I do occasionally need to look up stuff that I wrote before on there. And thank God Twitter kind of keeps it pretty well, but he's trying to burn it down.
54:30
Jmike
Right?
54:30
Case
It's a producer's situation. Like, you can make more money with a slop.
54:32
Jala-chan
Right?
54:35
Case
Anyway, come find me on blue sky. And J Mike, where can people find you and follow you?
54:39
Jmike
Oh, my gosh. I'm actually on blue sky. Case got blue sky. I had said j five bluesky social. I am there. I am kind of on Twitter, kind of at jmike 101. I'll occasionally be on there. But yeah, come shout me out, come find me. I'm always down to chat.
54:59
Case
And if you want to find this show or more things like this show, you can go to certainpov.com where there are more episodes of this show. There. There are tons of great other shows on our network. We shouted out screen snark before because Jala will eventually be on that. I know it's in the can. I did the episode sometime, but that is a great casual conversation. And considering that it was a show that started as a we're going to talk about movies show that they have pivoted during the SAG strike splendidly into just other kinds of media. So that's been really fun to see what they've been doing with that. Our former editor Matt is one of the hosts, along with Rachel Quirky Schenck, who I did in fact curse her cat. Just want to make that a canon event.
55:39
Case
I did, in fact, put a hex on Champion, but despite that, I do actually rather enjoy them as human beings, even if I'm trying to haunt Rachel's dreams by way of using her cat as my demonic familiar. But that's a great show. You should check out again. It's at certainpov.com also@certainpov.com. You can find a link to our discord server where you can come chat and hang out with all of us. The discord has gotten very active in really fun ways, while at the same time not being as overwhelming as many of the discords I've been on, where I'm just like, there's too many things. Too many people have said stuff I can't follow. The video game chat has gotten real good. The TTRPG chat has gotten real good.
56:14
Case
The blending of too with Balder's Gate has actually required a new channel because people were talking about that one so much. So check that out. That's a lot of fun. And we're all around there. Like, I'm not as active as I had been due to the fact that I have lack of sleep because I have a six month old. But you can still tag me and I will respond. I'm still, like, lurking around there. I just usually am a little bit more sleep deprived than I used to be. But it's a really great place. You should come hang out. We'd love to see you there on our discord again. You can find that at certain pov, but until next time, stay Super man.
56:53
Jmike
Of Steel is a certain pov production. Our hosts are J. Mike Folson and case Aiken the show is scored and edited by Jeff Moonin, and our logo and episode art is by case Aiken.