Another Pass at From Dusk Till Dawn
Some nights you just need to see through to the other side, so join Case and Sam as they are joined by V.P. Morris to talk about the early Rodriguez/Tarantino collaboration, From Dusk Till Dawn!
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Meeting summary:
● During the Movie Discussion and Analysis meeting focused on "From Dusk Till Dawn," participants examined various aspects of the film, notably its unusual structure and the abrupt genre shift that occurs mid-movie. VP Morris, a guest horror expert, contributed insights into the film's balance of gore and its classification as "spooky light," while discussing Tarantino's distinct writing style. The group analyzed character development, particularly the Gecko brothers, and debated the effectiveness of plot elements such as the vampire reveal and the movie’s pacing issues. Suggestions for improvement included creating a clearer timeline, enhancing the bar setting, refining character backstories, and expanding vampire mythology. The meeting wrapped up with reflections on the film’s cult status and future projects, along with action items including exploring the TV adaptation and VP Morris's works.
Notes:
● 🎬 Movie Discussion: From Dusk Till Dawn (00:02 - 09:04)
● Discussed the horror movie 'From Dusk Till Dawn'
● VP Morris introduced as a guest to talk about horror
● Movie described as 'spooky light' with more gore than scares
● Awkward construction of the movie noted, with two distinct parts
● Tarantino and Rodriguez's collaboration evident in the film
● 🧛 Vampire Reveal and Movie Structure (09:04 - 18:49)
● Discussed the jarring genre shift an hour into the movie
● Debated the effectiveness of the vampire reveal
● Analyzed Tarantino's writing style and dialogue
● Discussed the movie's dated and offensive language
● Explored the movie's structure and pacing issues
● 🎭 Character Analysis and Plot Elements (18:49 - 28:00)
● Discussed the character development of the Gecko brothers
● Analyzed the portrayal of vampires and their abilities
● Debated the effectiveness of certain plot elements and scenes
● Discussed the movie's setting and atmosphere
● 🕰️ Time and Pacing Issues (28:01 - 37:19)
● Explored the lack of clear time markers in the movie
● Discussed the importance of establishing a clear timeline
● Analyzed the pacing issues in the film's structure
● Debated potential improvements to the movie's time management
● 🎥 Movie Improvements and Pitches (37:19 - 48:37)
● Discussed potential improvements to the movie's structure
● Proposed starting the movie at the border crossing scene
● Suggested incorporating more flashbacks to build tension
● Discussed making the vampires more formidable opponents
● 🏠 Set Design and Location (48:37 - 58:25)
● Proposed changing the bar setting to an old west saloon
● Discussed adding a second story to the bar for more dynamic scenes
● Explored the idea of incorporating rooms and a madam character
● Debated the benefits of a larger, more complex set
● ⏱️ Time Management in the Plot (58:25 - 01:06:29)
● Discussed the importance of clear time markers in the plot
● Proposed adding a character with a watch for time checks
● Explored ways to build tension through time management
● Debated the logic of the characters' actions in relation to time
● 🎭 Character Development and Backstory (01:06:29 - 01:15:29)
● Discussed potential improvements to character backstories
● Explored the idea of expanding on Richie's mental state
● Debated the effectiveness of certain character motivations
● Proposed ways to make the characters more complex and interesting
● 🧛 Vampire Lore and Transformation (01:15:29 - 01:27:56)
● Discussed inconsistencies in vampire transformation times
● Explored ways to use vampire transformations to mark time passage
● Debated potential improvements to the vampire mythology in the film
● Discussed the effectiveness of the vampire reveal and subsequent scenes
● 🎬 Final Thoughts and Future Projects (01:27:57 - 01:34:55)
● Summarized overall thoughts on the movie and potential improvements
● Discussed the movie's cult status and mixed reviews
● Mentioned sequels and TV show adaptations
● Wrapped up the discussion and promoted guests' projects
Transcription
00:01
V
It doesn't hold up as well when you've watched it a second time because I think you said this is your first time seeing it. So, like, this is my second time within a year. And the big reveal at, you know, the almost halfway point doesn't have that same feeling. You almost kind of roll your eyes a little bit.
00:20
Case
Welcome to certain point of views, another pass podcast. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review on iTunes. Just go to certainpov.com. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to another pass podcast. I'm case Aiken, and as always, I am joined by my co host, Sam Alicea.
00:38
Sam
Hi.
00:39
Case
And today we are going to be looking at a horror movie. And as a result, who better to bring back on than VP Morris?
00:46
V
Hey, guys, thanks for having me back.
00:48
Case
Vy, it was so great talking to you about Jennifer's body. We just knew we had to have you back on and it seemed like a good time to talk about some horror stuff. I think this is actually going to drop after Halloween per se, but I think people are still in the mood for those kind of things. And, you know, it's just great to have you back on because you wanted to talk about from Dusk till Dawn, which were just talking before the show recorded that I hadn't seen this movie before, but, and it was kind of a blind spot where I was like, I don't know how I had missed it. So thank you for bringing this as a reason to discuss it.
01:20
V
Yeah, you're welcome. And funny enough, like, when I was younger, I got 28 days later and this movie, like, confused. So I attempted to watch this movie once, but I got it mixed up with the wrong horror movie. And so I was like, wait a minute, this isn't Tarantino. So I'm glad I actually finally have, I mean, I've watched it once before this, but it's like I was way late to the party because I just, like, my younger brain, like, flipped them in my head.
01:47
Case
Yeah, that's quite the difference there. That is a very british bio zombie movie versus what is an authentically american, vampire story here.
01:58
Sam
Oh, yeah.
01:59
Case
But for people who did not tune into the Jennifer's body Episode V, why don't you give some quick breakdown about what you do, all the stuff you've got going on?
02:05
V
Yeah. So I'm a horror and thriller writer. I have one novel out now called Shadow Cast. You can get that on Amazon as both print or Kindle. And right now, coming up, or actually will be released, a trio of short stories will be coming out right in time for, you know, spooky season. It's called exit 13. January. January release. And legacy employees, they're separate Kindle short reads, so you can get them on Amazon as well. I also have my own podcast that just wrapped called the Dead Letters podcast.
02:40
Case
Awesome. People should be on the lookout for all of that, especially if they're into. Well, especially if they're into horror. But you were a great guest last time, so I think people should just tune into whatever you're working on.
02:49
V
Well, thank you for that endorsement. Yes. Not everything is like pedal to the metal scary. There's some light spooks, even if they're not a big fan, I think, you know, it's palatable for most people.
03:00
Sam
I mean, sometimes you need a little spook foreplay.
03:03
V
Right?
03:03
Sam
You can't just jump into all the spook.
03:07
Case
Yeah.
03:07
Sam
Although that's warm up for the scarier stuff.
03:09
Case
I kind of wish this movie had jumped into the spook a bit more.
03:14
Sam
Yeah, this. This movie is kind of spook foreplay all the way through. Like, it's. It's fun once you get to the. Fun once you get to the. The monsters, but it. It doesn't quite get there, which I appreciated because you guys know I am a coward, which you learned the last time we recorded, when we recorded Jennifer's body. So, yeah, this is spooky light, guys. This is definitely more gore than spook, really. And I don't know. There are moments of tension, though. I mean, there are some moments that really work ish.
03:49
Case
Yeah. I overall, came away liking the movie enough, but it felt like it was very awkwardly constructed. And looking into it, that's a common talking point about the movie in modern criticism. And also at the time, like, all the reviews when this movie came out in, what was it, 1996, all of them were just like, it's so weird how this movie basically is two movies mashed together strangely. And for some, that's really cool, but for others, it's. It's kind of jarring. And, man, it's hard to watch this movie knowing what it theoretically is about, only to get to that. That substance. An hour ish in. In an hour and 45 minutes movie like the dusk part of from Dusk till Dawn doesn't start until two thirds of the way in.
04:39
Sam
Yeah.
04:40
V
Yeah. It really should be named dawn till the other dawn.
04:43
Case
Yes.
04:44
Sam
Yeah. A couple of days. A couple of days with a couple of bad dudes. You know, here's the thing. I said this one before we started recording. I'm not a huge fan of Tarantino in general, so it's just not usually my thing. I'm not a huge fan of horror, so this movie is definitely out of my wheelhouse of enjoyment. I have to say that I didn't enjoy the first half of the movie, probably because things were really creepy with everyone talking to Juliette Lewis and her character. That just skeeved me out. There was a lot of creepiness there. But I have to say that painting these two guys as the worst guys and the character that Quentin Tarantino plays as the worst makes his ultimate demise so much better because there is a lovely payoff, which is lovely. So I will say that.
05:41
Sam
I will give that to this movie.
05:43
Case
Yeah. Did either of you see Grindhouse, the two parter that they did? I was about to say a couple years back, but it was 15 years ago.
05:52
V
Yes, yes.
05:54
Case
Death proof and planetary.
05:55
Sam
What is time?
05:57
V
Yeah, actually, Death Proof is probably either my favorite movie or one of my favorite movies, which is the Tarantino half of Grindhouse, because Planet Terror is the other side that I didn't really care for as much. So, yeah, death Proof, I think, was actually my introduction to Tarantino. And it might be why I have a bit of an affinity for him because I didn't really come in with a lot of knowledge about some of the quirks about his writing. So it seemed like, oh, so original. And then after watching several of his work, by now I'm just like, oh, I've seen a lot of feet, so I get what he's about.
06:38
Sam
Yeah, he does get his feet moment in this one, too.
06:43
V
Oh, yeah, several.
06:48
Case
Yeah. Looking at this movie, I don't think I've ever seen a movie that screamed the minds behind it more than the combined efforts of Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez. Like, the script is like, oh, yeah, that's a tarantino script right now. And all the gunplay and the Gore, that's a Robert Rodriguez movie right there. Like, and that's why I bring up Planetarium Death grindhouse, because that was them doing like, a double feature, like. Or like a fake double feature in that style.
07:15
Sam
Yeah.
07:15
Case
And it felt a lot like this. But this is one movie where you're doing the death proof thing up front and then you're doing the planet terror thing at the back as opposed to having, like, a fake division between them.
07:26
Sam
Yeah.
07:27
Case
Since I usually, like, I saw that in theaters when it was. Was a double feature, and I have a hard time mentally breaking them into separate movies, especially with the fake trailers and everything that went into it all being like, I felt like one big thing to watch together, but there still were divisions, and this movie doesn't have that. It just has a very jarring, all of a sudden, genre shift an hour into the hour and 45 minutes runtime, which I paused when that happened, and I was like, oh, wow. Like, I assumed there was gonna be a lot more of this movie once we got to this whole situation. And it's just strange.
08:07
Sam
I will be honest with you. The jarring shift was probably my favorite thing about this movie. It was like, yes, now it's time for them to die. Like, I was me, the coward who hates horror. I was very pleased about the shift. I was very pleased I did know it was coming because my parents talked about it. So, like, even though I've never seen this film, I knew it was happening, and I was like, oh, thank God. The part is coming. This movie's going to change. It's going to change tones now. This is going to be good for me. And it was. I really liked the second movie that was this movie not really feeling the first movie, which was just about two brothers, one that was a serial killer and one living in denial about his brother being a serial killer.
08:51
Case
I want to say I'm not as harsh on this movie. I find the separation kind of surprising. But I was, like, watching the first chunk of this movie, I was like, oh, well, my notes are all mostly positive. I really like the cold open. I think that's a really classic Tarantino kind of suspenseful kind of scene that then turns into Rodriguez style gunplay stuff, which was actually kind of a perfect thesis statement for this movie. Exactly what their pairing should be doing. But I will say that watching this movie, I couldn't help but think that this is the type of movie that two guys who at this point had mostly been writing and producing movies for festivals would make because you're going into it relatively blind in that scenario.
09:36
Case
Whereas the second it becomes a mass market thing, you have to accept the fact that people are going to at least know the genre when you're going into it. Like, the poster for this is covered with bats. It's called from Dusk till Dawn. You know the title of this movie. Like, you know that it is supposed to be a vampire movie, so you're gonna be very confused when you're getting into it where it's like, oh, man, we're like an hour in. Where is the dusk part about this movie? Like, what is going on there? And I think that's sort of the problem of the film. Writ large like that. It's not a movie meant for people who are just, like, who have any sort of awareness of what they're tuning into.
10:18
Case
Like, you kind of have to go in blind to sort of have that jarring genre shift be effective. Like, I can see why. Like, people really dig it. But I kept on thinking, like, man, this movie could have you, like, this movie could use another past to make it one movie. Like, that's. That's the thing. It's still. It's not just one movie. And they're not doing anything to really make it a commercial piece for people to come in and appreciate after the initial release.
10:48
V
Yeah, it's definitely, it doesn't hold up as well when you've watched it a second time because I think you said this is your first time seeing it. So, like, this is my second time within a year. And the big reveal at the almost halfway point doesn't have that same feeling. You almost kind of roll your eyes a little bit when it's coming up because you know that there's this huge shift coming, and it's not, I don't know, taking you off guard the way it does. And I know they weren't thinking, you know, full long term, how is this going to hold up in 20 plus years time? Because that's for sure with a lot of, oh, yeah. With the dialogue and everything else, that's a nightmare in this.
11:30
V
But, yeah, they didn't think that other people are gonna, like, have the ability to just kick back at home and rewatch this a bunch of times. It was just like, we need to get, you know, the bulk of it of our watches is coming from theater and maybe some home video purchasing. But, like, yeah, it's just, I've noticed a lot of movies that have that big, like, I guess, sleight of hand. It just kind of feels like I. At least personally, for me, I kind of get. I'm like, eh, you know, it wasn't as good the next time around or the next time around. It's not as fun.
12:04
Sam
I mean, this movie's, like, probably a fever dream, right? Like, they were sitting around drinking, writing this, adding things, and being like, oh, man, you'd be great. Okay. All right, so then we have a nice, slow pacing. You know, the tension with this family. They've been kidnapped. They go to this place where they meet, and then, bam. Sexy dance. And everyone's vampires. Like, and then they're just laughing their ass off. I think, like, ultimately, like, the whole idea is just that first shock and awe. And then you. I guess you hope that people come back for the. Enjoying. Enjoying these smaller little gags that you added in, like, a gun in a crotch area or heads being exploded. Like, let's watch that head explode again. I think, like, maybe that's part of it, too.
12:54
Sam
Like, there is, like, there is an element to Tarantino that really loves the idea. Well, both of these directors that loves the idea of, like, shock and awe. So I think, like, on some levels, this is just, like, kind of. I don't know if this was. I don't think they really thought about if there was going to be a rewatch. They were like, let's just write it the way we want to write it for the first moments.
13:20
Case
I got to push back on that because Tarantino famously was, like, worked at a video store prior to getting into, actually, a break in Hollywood, like, and Rodriguez also famously was, like, a huge fan of rewatching grindhouse films. Their entire schtick is being fans of movies that have already come and gone. I think that saying that, well, they only anticipated this to be seen the first time is inaccurate because they certainly were familiar with the concept of rewatches of movies. I just think that the two of them, both, at this point, so early in their career, really hadn't kind of grasped the idea of, like, thinking about how, like, just being aware of what a movie is about before you watch it, in terms of how you construct it. And I mean, like.
14:08
Case
Like, it's interesting to think about, considering that, like, this isn't a story by Tarantino. He wrote the screenplay, but it's actually a story by Robert Kurtzman, who is a special effects guy who wanted to do a big vampire movie and hired Tarantino to write the screenplay for his big vampire movie. And then they tried to push it as a tales from the Crypt movie, which was obviously going to be a big vampire movie in that scenario. And instead, tales from the crypt did bordello of Blood. Because just at the time, the idea of, like, a sex worker vampire situation was, like, in. I guess so. It's just. It's so strange to look at all the bones here because, like I said, like, this.
14:46
Case
The story is like, let's get them to a place where we can do all kinds of cool special effects with vampires. And then the direction is, let's do a lot of cool gunplay. And then the script is, all right, well, let's have, like, some cool suspense scenes with some, like, dialogue that is so fucking cringey. Like, I. This week, for whatever reason a lot of the material I've been sort of absorbing has made me sort of, like, contemplate, like, the kind of edge lordiness of, like, the nineties, like, a lot of material that's just like, ooh, we're gonna have, like, a really grim, violent thing, or we're gonna say something that's, like, really over the top just to, like, surprise a person.
15:24
Case
For example, for my other show, men of steel, I'm rereading miracle man, which has, like, tons of this stuff where it's like, let's. Let's be as nihilistic as possible in our approach to humanity at the time. When I read it when I was 16, I was like, this is brilliant. And I'm sure if I'd watched this movie when I was 16, I'd be like, oh, look. Like, it's so edgy and whatnot, and that's kind of how Tarantino got big in Hollywood. But at the same time, it's like, well, it's both extremely offensive and difficult to listen to, and it's just a different era now than when this movie came out.
15:59
V
I've gotten into a few arguments recently on Reddit about Tarantino, and it seems like anyone who is critiquing him in any way is, like, instantly accused of being, like, overly sensitive. Even when I'm not, like, critiquing the content, I'm, like, the style of it. And this one guy was like, you should have seen it in theaters. We're talking about pulp fiction. And I was too. So it was just like, okay. Like, your whole, like, a lot of their whole thing is like, well, you weren't there, man. Like, it's nom or something. So it's like, so, yeah, there's, like, a lot of that. Like, now, like, they were edge lords when they were 16, and now they're, like, 40 something. And anyone who is younger than them is, like, critiquing it.
16:44
V
They're just like, oh, no, you're sensitive and you don't know because you didn't live through it. I'm like, oh, like, no, that's not how art works.
16:51
Case
But okay, yeah, I mean, I have a note because they make a lot of racial slurs. And on the one hand, like, it is directed by Robert Rodriguez. So, like, in terms of, like, well, is this actually offensive to, like, a Hispanic American? Like, well, I don't know, but it is also Tarantino who wrote those lines. Like, and oftentimes it's Tarantino saying those lines, too.
17:12
Sam
Also internalized racism exists. And also, there is a divide between those people who have more colonizer blood in them. It's my nice way of saying it then. Indigenous or others. So, like, Rodriguez's family is fairly wealthy. Like, there is a social economic divide where some people are okay with certain things, so it's still questionable, and it's.
17:37
V
Definitely not good for anyone who has down syndrome. At least that's what I'm assuming the person that they are referring to has in the first scene. And it all. Yeah, that took me back because I have not heard that slur in a very long time. So I almost was just like, are they referring to an asian person? I was like, oh, wait, no, it's even worse. Oh, God.
17:59
Sam
Yeah, I had to pause because I was like, wait, did I just read that? Because I always watch stuff with subtitles, and I was like, did I just read. Did I read that? Oh, my God. And, well, you guys know, I mean, I'm not gonna mint sports, HBO, Max. I mean, come on. Like, fix the app. Like, what? Why? Why is rewinding so hard? But all I'm saying is, like, I was just like, wow, this is. Yeah, okay. Wow. That I haven't heard in. I mean, for. I think I read it in a book once from the 1930s.
18:35
Case
Yeah, it's real bad. And, I mean, like, there is the element of all of these are supposed to be bad people. Like, none of the good people are saying some of these things that are so shocking, and most of them get their just desserts. Or at the very least, Clooney is sort of the one exception, and he is both sort of better than those, and also is offset by the fact that he is directly confronted by vampires who are presented very much as an even worse kind of hellish monster, where it's like, all right, here's the good people, and they're being kind of protected by a terrible person, but they're being protected from something even worse.
19:15
V
Yeah, I definitely like that Tarantino is the one that gets turned into a vampire because it shows that his character is the worst one. A figurative monster turns into a literal monster. So I enjoyed that symbolism because I was afraid at my first viewing that it was like, oh, they're all, like, just gonna literally turn into vampires. And that's how it ends, but that's not how it ends. So thankfully, I was expecting it to be more like, oh, isn't this edgy? They're all vampires, but thankfully, it's actually just one of the original crew gets turned that way, or at least we see it.
19:58
Sam
I do think that it's a nice moment when. When, basically, Tarantino's character is being held by all the other people. And George Clooney, who is looking at his brother, tells him that he's going to give him the peace and death that he could not give him in life, because there is still a sense of kindness in that killing. And maybe his brother didn't deserve it, but there is brotherly love there between the two of them regardless, and he made the right call. So I was glad that he wasn't just stupid. There was a little tension there where he thought maybe he wouldn't be smart about it, but ultimately he was. So that was good. I thought that was a good move.
20:40
V
I can't fully remember it, but I think. Are there other actual, like, vampires holding him down?
20:46
Sam
No, it's the. It's the guy, the biker. He introduces himself as sex machine.
20:54
V
Yes.
20:55
Case
Yep.
20:55
Sam
Yes.
20:56
Case
No, he's not just introduced to sex machine. He's credited as sex machine. He doesn't have another name. And the biker's name. Frost.
21:02
V
Yeah, that's.
21:04
Case
Yeah, those side notes. So you mentioned the original crew. That's actually one of the other things that I find kind of weird about the structure of this movie, which is that we actually have more people as part of the. These are the survivor. These are the people holding out inside the place, like, held by vampires, like, under siege by vampires. And two of them don't show up until an hour into the movie. Are fairly compelling once they do show up, and then. But you know they're gonna die because they're not part of that original crew right there. So there's, like, no suspense in terms of, like, oh, well, I guess. All right, well, that guy's gone.
21:36
Case
Like, it just seems weird that in an ensemble piece about being laid siege to by vampires, much like a night of the living dead, you don't spend time with these characters. Like, with all the characters. We're only spending time with this one subsection of it, getting into it. And that makes that final push to the end feel rushed as a result, because you don't have other characters that you're really that invested in.
22:06
V
It seems like the two brothers are collecting characters as they go on, which I understand it's their ark, but they had the hostage, and then stuff happens, and then they meet the family, and then they're trying to get them across the border. Then now they meet, like, new people in the bar, and there's, like, a douchey bartender that you think maybe is he someone to care about? But not really. And then there's the sex machine in frost, and then there's, like, the sexy dancers that obviously are just props, but it's like, I thought maybe one of the women would, like, maybe knew them or something. I was kind of waiting for there to be a bigger reveal that, like, oh, one of these women. Like, there's something, but no, there's not.
22:49
V
So it's just like, yeah, there isn't enough time to really figure out, like, who is the people that we care about all the way and, like, who's good in this kind of, like, bar of horrible people.
23:00
Case
Yeah. And there's also not a real bad guy. Like, you kind of get the vibe that, like, salma Hayek is supposed to be, like, the head vampire woman there. Like, she's. She's named this, like, crazy Santanico pandemonium. Like, it's, you know, this, like, crazy kind of thing. She's got, like, snakes and she, you know, has, like, a show stopping kind of number. And, you know, there's pyrotechnics when the band is playing about her and she has a whole speech, but then she dies pretty early on. And then, like, the rest of it's just like, oh, yeah, there are bats that turn into vampires that are attacking them, but, yeah, there's no actual antagonist. It's just the situation.
23:35
Sam
I also want to say that this movie is a PSA for vampires not to own disco balls.
23:40
Case
Yes.
23:42
Sam
I think, like, if there's a real lesson to learn from this film, it's that if you are a vampire, do not install a disco ball in your apartment or castle.
23:51
Case
I gotta say, though, I thought that was a really cool way to deal with them at the very.
23:55
Sam
Oh, no, it was amazing. That was great. But I'm just saying, I, like, actually thought to myself, I actually put in my notes, if turned vampire, do not own disco ball. Reflective surface is bad.
24:07
V
Or own biker bar in the middle of nowhere.
24:10
Sam
Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, biker bar. Like, truckers and bikers go missing all the time. I mean, it's actually, like, a pretty good idea. Like, not necessarily totally bad. Good on the vampires, you know? Gotta build a business model to sustain yourself. But, yeah, they didn't check hard enough on these particular people. I think, really they needed better security out front.
24:39
V
Well, yeah.
24:41
Case
Well, they just figured, like, well, everyone's gonna. We'll kill them regardless.
24:44
Sam
Like, yeah.
24:45
V
And they got let in on, like, a technicality. It's cause he owns an rv and has to have a truck license. It's like, oh, it's not. You're not even really a trucker. So it's like, they slip in there. But, I mean, I think that's obviously the thing, is that you think that this innocent family, like, the ones, like, if they're gonna kill, you know, like, truckers and bikers who have a reputation for being pretty hard, that, like, an old man who's an ex preacher and his children are gonna be, like, you know, the easiest people to kill. And that's not, like, clearly that's not the case.
25:19
Sam
Although maybe if he found out that he was a man of God, he would have sent him away right away. Oh, no. Get out of here. How dare you? I'm insulted.
25:27
V
Yeah, and, like, Juliette Lewis is wearing a cross necklace. I'm surprised they all didn't, like, notice, freak out upon seeing it. But that just kind of. It's just seen when Tarantino's character is, like, staring at her, that she's wearing it, and then it's never addressed again, which I thought. Or is it a dress towards Anne? I can't remember now.
25:47
Case
Well, she uses it to kill someone.
25:49
V
Yeah, she uses it to kill someone at the end. Yes. I was like. I just thought when they would walk into the bar, wouldn't they just, like, have their. Their spidey senses up, that she has religious paraphernalia on her? But I guess not.
26:01
Sam
I mean, again, they're just not good at security.
26:03
Case
Yeah. Although I did dig the whole, like, they've got this, like, temple kind of thing that is, like, half exposed. I thought the closing shot was really cool. Where we have, like, the canyon that's, like, filled up with, like, just trucks that they've pushed over the edge to dispose of the evidence, and, you know, it's just this, like, trap for all these people. I thought that whole setup was a really cool idea. That was unfortunate that it wasn't more of the movie.
26:27
Sam
Yeah, well, it gives you also a sense that this is a more, like, tied to a more ancient civilization. I mean, vampires are already ancient, but, like, they're living outside of a. Like, they've basically built their bar on top of their pyramid that was hidden under, like, the ground here. And so, like, that's kind of amazing, but. But, yeah, that's not really. That's just kind of, like, I don't know if you're supposed to have, like, an oh, shit moment. Like, maybe there's more inside kind of thing or. It's very unclear. It's just a very cool shot.
27:02
V
Yeah. I've heard people say that the ending shot is, like, what makes the movie for them. And my, like, I guess personal take is I think that they're implying that this is the. A form of blood sacrifice, that the, like, indications, like, those temples were used to make human sacrifices back when the mayan civilization was functional. And it's like, they obviously can't keep doing that because time has changed. So now it's like they have to continue doing that. They have to make this kind of, like, almost honey trap for their blood.
27:37
Case
Sacrifice, which is a cool idea. Again, the pitch of the movie. The idea of, like, all right, we're going to do a big vampire thing where it is this, like, trap where people get sucked inside under, like, the pretense of, like, titillation, only to be all murdered by, you know, sexy vampire women. That's a cool idea. If you're selling it, like, selling a concept to a movie. It's then just very strange that, like, what should. Like, also the title makes you just feel like it should be this, like, oh, God, we're, like, just barely making it through the night again. Like, night of the living dead, wherever I. It spends a little bit of time to get them to the house, and then there's zombies all outside coming through and I don't know, like, I.
28:19
Case
There's no one scene that I'm like, oh, I dislike this scene. It's just there's so much before we get to the premise that it feels like we're just kind of dilly dallying and then we're there and I like. I like all of those. I would say probably some of the stuff with act, with Tarantino in it, like, as Richie Gekko, like, being this, like, weird, you know, rapist character. Like a rapist murderer character. Like, I. There's probably too much of that considering that I wish we had more later, you know? Because, like, how much does it actually impact the later part of the story? Like, if the story starts at the hour marker when they go into the bar, there isn't a whole lot of that really influences things. It informs the character.
29:05
Case
Sure, it makes us, like, very fine with him dying, but, you know, like I said, I like the opening scene. I really like the border crossing scene. Like, that's a really cool sequence right there. That's, like, good suspense of them, like, trying to hide in the rv. But, like, when I look back on, like, actually what happens throughout this whole movie up until they get to the bar, it doesn't feel like it should take an hour.
29:27
Sam
Yeah, I mean, I think. I think, like, killing the hostage while I. George Clooney. I never remember any characters names. I'm sorry, everyone. George Clooney's character is away and is fine. I think that it shows, like, a fundamental difference between the two of them, but it does go on. Like, there are other things that go on a little long. So, yeah, I think some of it needed to be tightened up, and I.
29:54
Case
Have tons of thoughts about how you can make that tighter without even really necessarily cutting anything. Like, you might trim down some scenes. But, like, I think some of it's just that it's a long pace to get there. And, like, I think you could make it work. But before we get to pitches, I had one other big thing. Up until. Up until they're all on the rv together, did you just. Did you two have just assumed that Harvey Keitel's wife was going to be the person that they killed when they were getting away from their bank robbery?
30:22
V
No, I don't think so.
30:23
Case
No, no, really, like. Cause they talked about how that there was, like, one, like, one woman who was, like, killed, and they, like, even show her at one point, it's not the one that they have as a hostage. And I just kept assuming, because they keep on talking about that, and they then keep on talking about how the mom just died recently, and I kept on just assuming it was going to be like, oh. And, like, I realized that's, like, kind of a hacky screenplay kind of move, so I'm glad it wasn't.
30:47
Case
But the way they kept talking about it in close proximity when going back and forth between the Gekko brothers and then the family, I just kept getting that vibe that it was like, oh, it's gonna be revealed that, like, oh, they already have a connection because when, at one point, when George Coleeny was doing a bank robbery, he accidentally murdered, or, like, he. Like, this, you know, this innocent bystander was killed as collateral damage, and that's why this man has lost his faith.
31:12
Sam
No, I mean, I didn't think of it, but it does make sense.
31:17
V
Okay, yeah, no, that does make sense now that I think about it. But no, I thought it was just, like, a. They especially Seth's character likes to kind of poke at weaknesses, and I just saw it as, like, a sore spot because especially, like, when they're driving to the thing, he kind of, like, is going through the wallet and looking at all the pictures and, like, making comments and, like, keeps probing for like, oh, she's dead. Where is she? What's going on? What happened? Like, I just saw it as, like, more, I don't know, proof that he is not a great person, which is.
31:50
Case
All fine, obviously, very different person. Tom Savini, who plays sex machine in this. I couldn't stop thinking about how he kind of looks like Brian O'Halloran, who was Dante and clerks. And I know that they're just very different people. But this is also about the same time that clerks hit Sundance, and this is all miramax. You know, it's all, like, the same, like, family of, like, produce of Harvey Weinstein producing produced projects just so we can say that part out loud. And it's obviously not. But in my head, I was just thinking, like, I'm not even supposed to be here today every single time. And I thought it was really funny.
32:26
Sam
Actually, one of the. Honestly, the I'm not even supposed to be here moment for him is the moment where he has hidden the fact that he has a bite and he's, like, trying to hide the fact that he's going through transformation. And he's got his hands in front. And, like, all of a sudden, like, the vampire claws start growing down, and he, like, basically very quickly hides them behind his back. And, like, the sun, like, almost catches it. Like, he, like, looks over and he's, like, standing there, like, you know, kind of giving, like, a do do kind of face. And the kid looks away, and he feels like he's gotten away with it. And that was actually a lovely moment of Dante ness, actually.
33:08
Case
Yeah, well, it's offset because it's like that. Like, this is one of the funniest moments in this, where, like, where Frost is, like, describing his experience of Vietnam and everyone is enraptured by it, but you don't hear any of it because you're just focusing on sex machine transforming into a vampire this whole time, and you just keep on cutting back. And he's doing these really aggressive physical actions trying to illustrate what the nam was like, but we never actually hear anything about the actual experience.
33:37
Sam
And meanwhile, this guy's, like, panicking in the corner as he's transforming, trying to hide it from everyone.
33:44
V
Yeah, I also. I don't know if it was just. It might have been a weird maybe it was just me moment, but at both times I've watched this movie, the moment right before we see that he is growing teeth, Frost is telling his Vietnam story, and you can still hear it right before it cuts out. And, like, he kind of makes this, like, shock face. Like, almost. And there's, like, a bunch of music that's kind of, like. That swells. And I thought for a minute that he was attracted to frost. It was kind of like the same face that Richie makes when he sees, you know, the dancers for the first time and before. So it's like a weird shift because we're switching out of his perspective.
34:22
V
And I kind of, like, almost was expecting with, like, that face he makes and the music swelling. I was like, is he checking out frost? And then I realize he's trying to hide the fact that he's turning into a vampire while this guy is talking about how he just, like, bludgeons his enemies to death. So that's the tension. But it was one of those, like, yeah, like, it seemed like the spotlight was, like, shifting to frost. And, like, if it was a woman, like, especially an attractive woman, it would be like, a queue up for, like, oh, this guy is attracted to her. But it was like, oh, no, this guy is now, like, afraid of this guy because he's gonna hunt me.
34:56
Sam
Yeah.
34:57
Case
Yeah. Well, you're kind of primed for it because earlier when they're talking about, oh, these vampires are soft. Not like this, like. And he, like, pats frost and is, like, I forgot the exact line, but it's, like, not like this hard, massive muscle or whatever. Side note, Fred Williamson, who played Frost, was a football player before this, and his nickname was the hammer. Like, just. Just a mountain of a man. I think us watching this now versus, like, at the time. I think viewers at the time would be like, oh, yeah. That's, like, would recognize him as a famous football player and be like, oh, yeah, it's that guy. Course he can beat up vampires. He's, like, this huge, like, this huge football player. Kind of like if. Well, I was gonna say kind of like. Like Schwarzenegger movies.
35:39
Case
If he, like, just shows up in a scene or something, but. Or, like, the rock. I don't know. Yeah, it's weird talking about this movie from the standpoint of, like, production issues and so forth, because, like, it's. It's Rodriguez, who is famous for shooting everything super low budget, getting everything super fast. Like, the production time on this movie was incredibly quick. So there's, like, really impressive works that go into it all. That said, the screenplay was written pretty early on. Like, it's Tarantino's first, like, paid screenplay. And, you know, so it was all written well before he got famous. And you can kind of feel that this is, like, kind of a freshman script.
36:17
V
Yeah, for sure. It's after you watch more Tarantino. You see that this, like, these ideas are just getting flushed out way better than they are in this movie.
36:30
Case
But that's all I've gotten without just, like, wanting to, like, jump into pictures because, like, I have thoughts about how to make this better. But do either of you have anything else you want to talk about with this movie? Because, like, I. Overall, I rather liked it. It's. Again, I think it fits together wrong, but I. There's no scene that I was, like, absolutely annoyed that was there. There were lines that I was absolutely annoyed that were there, but there was no, like, scene that I thought was a bad choice.
36:53
V
The only thing is, I kind of wish that Stefan from SNL could, like, make a pitch for going to the bar from dusk killed on to the tweety twister. I could just see him being like, this club has everything. Dick guns, tequila foot shots, vampire strippers, the next up and coming things. Like, I just wish that, like, I don't know. I mean, they should have done that.
37:17
Sam
Crotch gun.
37:18
V
Yeah, crotch guns. I think.
37:19
Sam
Crotch guns at, like. Like, I think. I think this bar would have Stefan at Crotch gun. Like, I think, like, that would be his biggest selling point. This bar does have everything.
37:32
V
Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's. It does sound like. That's the thing, is, like, when you list out everything that is in this bar, even before you know that there's vampires, it's just insane. And it's like, if it wasn't the context of these, I know two filmmakers, you would just have been like, okay, yeah, sure. This is a movie.
37:53
Sam
Yeah, it's like that meme.
37:55
Case
Yeah. The crotch gun is revealed before any actual threats occur. That crotch gun, by the way, was in desperado before it, and they weren't able to make it work for a scene. And then this movie's, like, a little less. Not that desperado is, like, a serious movie or a realistic movie, but, like, this movie's just, like, a hair further into camp. And so it was just like, yeah, fuck it, let's use it.
38:17
Sam
And they didn't use it once. They used it twice. Once to threaten and once to shoot. So they made it work. They used it.
38:25
V
It's Chekhov's crotch gun, obviously.
38:28
Sam
Yeah. Bucket list complete.
38:34
Case
Yeah. Yeah. I read Rodriguez's book ripple without a crew a while back, and he talked about this was one of just, like, a lot of projects he picked up right after the success of El Mariachi. So I think Desperado came out first, but this may have been filmed, like, simultaneously or really close together. And all of this is in this flurry of just new talent in Hollywood just trying to get all their stuff out there. And so there is a lot of passion going into this movie. It's like I said, just. It feels like it has a bunch of, like, rookie mistakes because they're all rookies. So why don't we take a break, have a shout out to one of the shows on our network, and when we come back, let's. Let's speculate on how this movie could have been a little bit tighter.
39:20
Sam
Yeah. Hey, there, screen beans. Have you heard about screen snark?
39:24
Case
Rachel, this is an ad break. They aren't screen beans until they listen to the show.
39:28
Sam
Fine. Potential screen beans. You like movies and tv shows, right?
39:33
Case
I mean, who doesn't? Screensnark is a casual conversation about the movies and television shows that are shaping us as we live our everyday lives.
39:40
Sam
That's right, Matt. We have a chat with at least one incredible guest every episode, hailing from all walks. We've interviewed chefs, writers, costumers, musicians, yoga teachers, comedians, burlesque dancers, folks in the film and tv industry, and more.
39:55
Case
We'd be delighted for you to join us every other Monday on the certain.
39:58
Sam
Pov podcast or wherever you get your podcasts, fresh and tasty off the presses.
40:04
Case
What? That's. No, that's not.
40:06
Sam
Can I call them screen beans now?
40:09
Case
Fine.
40:11
Sam
Screens.
40:16
Case
So tune in, and we'll see you at the movies or on a couch somewhere.
40:21
Sam
Cause you're a whole screen beans, man.
40:23
Case
You will be mine. And we're back. So, I have been informed by Sam that I am not allowed to lead off on pitches.
40:32
Sam
You're just so thought out. I mean, like, honestly, if you're just leaning on pitches, what do I do? What do I do?
40:40
Case
But, vy, you are our guest. So would you like to take the first swing?
40:44
V
Yes. So, my. I have two ideas. I'll say one first, and if the second one is, like, really different from you guys, then maybe we can go back to it. It's to kind of start the movie around the border crossing with obviously, you know, a little bit of, you know, backstory to understand why the tension is there. So we don't even get the slur ridden opening of this movie with the shootout and the booze store catching on fire and the hostage being slaughtered. It's just starting with, like, this poor family kind of being hijacked and taken across the border with, you know, obviously some backstory that these guys are bad dudes, but we don't need to know as much as is presented in the original script. And then it's kind of.
41:40
V
It's a kind of common trick I've seen in a lot of movies where, like, clearly there's something wrong, but they're presenting normal. Like, when the waiter comes by, everyone's smiling, but the guy has a gun under the table. I get seen in tons of movies, like, all the genres of, like, even westerns more, you know, crime dramas or even horror movies where it's like everyone, under the threat of violence has to kind of put on a good face. And, like, other people are kind of, you know, like, the waitress comes by and everyone's all smiling. Like, oh, yeah, it's fine. But, like, then as soon as she's gone, there's a lot of tension because they're being held there against their will. And then you can kind of.
42:23
V
From there, I would get into some more, like, flashbacks in a similar style of how when we see Seth come back from getting the burgers and he has all those crazy flashes of seeing the female hostage who's been brutalized kind of like that with all the other, like, crazy shit they've done. Not just scenes that we get in the original, but maybe to their original crimes of robbing banks in the past of, like, we're kind of getting a, you know, through their interactions, we get to learn more and kind of have things trigger these. They're almost like PTSD related flashes. I mean, I know it's happening in the moment, but it could be kind of displayed that Seth is, like, so upset by how he's had to take care of his brother.
43:12
V
That mentioning, oh, hey, do you remember when we robbed that one bank? And it could be that kind of crazy flashback to, oh, yeah, that happened, and that was really messed up. And we can kind of do the same thing, maybe with less, because we don't really care as much about the nice family, but we get to learn the mom is dead that way or just their general relationship. And questioning. It happens in the motel. They question why the adopted son is asian and they're not asian. So you can kind of get the. He could explain everything. And, like, you know, like, when the waitress comes back to take their order, like, everyone, like, stops doing that, and they all pretend that they're, like, the best of friends.
43:57
V
And maybe that even, like, since all the waitresses from at least what I guess are vampires are maybe, like, stalking them that way, that they're kind of gathering information that, oh, we know that this place is going to turn into a bloodbath after the big striptease. So it's kind of painting a mark on them from the beginning that this earlier femme fatale who was a waitress is assessing them out and marking them to be maybe their first kills of the night because an older man and his younger children are, you know, a better. Better victims than, like, the two tough guys. And then, you know, that kind of gets. Gets turned on their head. And I definitely would keep the loss of faith that is happening with the pastor. That was one of my favorite parts.
44:50
V
And, like, how the existence of vampires, like, re. You know, re approves his faith, even though, you know, it kind of means I. Horrible consequences for him and humanity and as a whole. But it's. I definitely wanted that part to stay and get more time, you know, with those other characters that we talked about with Frost and sex machine and other people, which, just side note, I love that Frost is, like, trying to build a little, like, table thing as the strippers are dancing and he gets mad every time it gets knocked down. So I loved that, and I definitely would not get rid of that. But, yeah, like, maybe that frost and sex machine, like, interact with the family crew, the two brothers, and the hostage family more and maybe even just shoot the shit a little more.
45:44
V
Kind of the conversation that was in the original opening with obviously, hopefully way less offensive language, but just how they were talking about nothing. There's just two guys bonding, and that's what happens at bars, especially bars like this, if there's not a fight going on. Like, I don't think anyone was having a deep conversation at any of those other tables we saw. They're all just, like, you know, talking crap. So I kind of wish that we could see, like, how Seth and Richie would interact with these other, like, tough guys before there's a clear and present danger. And then I would definitely make the vampires far more formidable. I mean, part of it is the CGI was just crap back then, and that's not anybody's fault, but I was kind of annoyed that, like, two human guys can, like, kill tons of these people.
46:37
V
Well, vampires that are, like, probably hundreds, if not thousands of years old. And, like, a part of it felt like there was a little bit of sexism because most of them were female. So, like, though, you know, there was obviously, you know, some that were harder to kill than others, but it seemed like as soon as it was revealed that, oh, they're vampires, they were just knocking them down. Left and right until they eventually sequestered themselves in there to realize it. But it's like, oh, yeah, of course these two tough guys can just kill a bunch of supernatural women. It just seems like they would almost gur, and then they would just drive a stake through their heart. It was like, you know, all bark and no bite.
47:26
V
I just wanted, I guess, them to have some of their badassery, like, at least called into question a little bit. Especially there's that one scene where they kill four vampire women with a table with, like, each leg through the table. And while that's, like, a really cool shot, I was just like, I think even Edward Cullen would be more formidable than those four women. Like, make them at least, like, sure, they're, you know, they're presenting very terrifying, but it just didn't seem like much of a task until they're, you know, getting towards the end where it's, you know, they're starting to really get ganged upon by tons of them.
48:05
V
But, yeah, I just, like, wanted to feel like I never thought that, you know, the first, you know, few vampires they run into weren't going to be much of a threat just because, you know, like, main character syndrome and then obviously keeping the disco ball because we can't get rid of that. That's 100% good. Absolutely. And it totally skipped over it. Of course. I almost didn't want, like, I'm glad Richie got turned into a vampire because of the poetics of a literal monster. I mean, a figurative monster turning into a literal one. But I almost just kind of wish he was just stabbed like the punk he is. Just like, it just seemed, yeah, it just seemed like he just didn't deserve, like, that's a cool death, so to speak.
48:56
V
You know, like, being turned into this supernatural being and then having your brother have to, like, mercy kill you when, like, in reality, like, he is such a shit human being, he deserves, like, a pitiful, like, lame death. Not one that would be in a action movie, which I understand this is, you know, a part action movie. And I would also make their, the character design a little less lizardy to me just from my own, like, horror sensibilities. I don't, I'm not afraid of that type of monster. Like, it just doesn't scare me. I kind of get that it makes sense because they're in the desert and lizards can survive in the desert very well, so it makes sense that, you know, some of the vampire creature design would be melded with, like, the animals of that era or area, but it just.
49:51
V
I was not scared of them, and I wish that they had done something to make their creature design better or something, like, a little bit. And maybe it's because it happened so fast that, you know, she just turns from being a stripper into this lizard vampire. I kind of wish it was, like, a creepier thing. And also, like, the whole pacing of it would be, which goes against the kind of tarantino feel, would be much slower, that it's kind of more of a slower build to what's really happening, because, you know, in the horror slash, like, suspense genre, there's a lot of that, and that's where I come from. And my. My preference is, like, a slower build with, like, hints of there being problems that just kind of continue to swell versus this kind of, like, rock and roll.
50:44
V
Like, look at how crazy this bar is. There's a guy talking about pussy when we walk in the door. So I would have him. I was listening to some other podcast talk about this, and they were saying that, like, at first, that guy, I call him the pussy barker. Cause it's like a carnival barker, but for a prostitution. So it's like, the first few times he says it, like, the first, like, know, like, two lines. It's kind of funny because it's, like, out of nowhere, like, oh, my God, look how insane this guy is. But then he keeps going, yeah, plus.
51:15
Case
It'S Cheech Marin in his second of three parts, and you're like, okay, yeah, like, you know, it's a. It's a comedic actor. Like, cool. All right.
51:23
V
Yeah, exactly. It's like, I get what they're doing, but it kind of goes on too long. And that's the thing, is it was. It kind of gets awkward after, like, the shock factor of him just, like, describing various types of women's genitalia. Just the shock gets kind of lost, and I. And it just, like, went on way too long, and it goes from being funny and even edgy to just being annoying. So I would. I would still have him, but I would definitely, like, cut his part, that part down and. Yeah, and make the whole thing less, like, oh, look at all this crazy shit that's happening in this place. More of this, like, slower build. Like, something's wrong here, and we need to figure it out. And then, you know, eventually fight to survive, and.
52:07
V
But I would keep the band shifting from normal instruments to dead bodies. And I want to know, like, did, like, do they have those, like, pre made, like, saved back for when the kills happen that they just, like, bring it out. Or did they make that human guitar within, like, two minutes of shit hitting the fan at the bar? Like, it just happened so fast, which I enjoyed that type, but it was just like, oh, that was really quick. If you just killed that person.
52:38
Sam
Yeah. Which is like, that makes them multi talented at that point. It's like, wow, you can play an instrument and make one out of human flesh. You are incredible.
52:47
Case
Yeah. And tune it.
52:48
V
Yeah. That would actually be a kind of hilarious scene. They're not even playing it. They're just, like, trying to, like, get the tuning right. Like, wait, hold on. Is this the g string or is this the e? Does that sound like e sharp to you?
53:03
Case
Oh, God. And then you can make a g string.
53:06
V
Yeah.
53:07
Sam
Hey, listen, I feel like now we're casting Bruce Campbell. I mean, like, we're going in a totally different direction, but I like it.
53:15
Case
Yeah. I think that has a lot of similarities to the stuff that I was thinking about, because I think. I think we're pretty clear on, like, some of the structural issues.
53:23
Sam
Yeah.
53:24
Case
Like, I think we're all, like, in sync on that part. Yeah, I like that all. Yeah, I don't want to go too. Too far into it, because then I'm going to just turn into doing mine. Sam, why don't you go?
53:38
Sam
So I went in definitely a similar direction because for me, like I said, I really didn't like the first half of this film. So I thought that they could actually start, like, as rich is getting back or as a. As. I'm just gonna call George Clooney. George Clooney's getting back with the burgers. And so you start with, like, listening to, like, a radio thing about, like, you know, to, you know, kind of like a voiceover, but it's all awful radio talking about the bank robbers and their descriptions and that kind of thing. And you have him come back with the burgers, and he's like, what the fuck did you do? And then you see the hostage, and then he has that moment where you kind of, you know, have him confronting his brother, being like, this is not what we do. This is.
54:28
Sam
You're not fucking raping people and murdering them. So you still have that moment of like. So you see how the two of them are different, and at the same time, you're kind of cutting back and forth to the family, which is just out on the road, just kind of, you know, going on vacation, and the kids can still be like, I don't understand why we have to go on vacation, blah, blah. Blah, blah. I think the important scene, and I would leave it in, is the scene where Juliette Lewis is asking her father about his job and taking it. That way, you establish that he is a pastor. But everything else, I would then have them meet at the motel, have them kidnapped, and straight to the border.
55:07
Sam
Like, I would somehow work all that out, because I don't think you need that first scene at all. You can start hot and heavy and, like, honestly, like, because he murdered someone, they have to leave the motel, right? So you just get them going and then get straight to, like, past the border and into this small town and, you know, not knowing where to go and kind of maybe have someone, like, hint at them that they should, like, maybe not go to the place that they're thinking about going. Or, you know, like, it's got a reputation, and, you know, the person. You know, George Clooney's character is telling the person to mind their own business, and they walk away. But that gets you to the bar really quicker. A lot quicker.
55:54
Sam
And then I would say, yes, the pastor can kind of ease things down, but I think it's, like, one of the other guys, maybe frost or sex machine, that should come over and. And kind of barter with the bartender to have the family stay. And this is how they kind of sit down with them, become friends with them, sort of, you know, let me buy you a drink kind of thing. Maybe even have, like, some beginnings of nom storytelling that people check out of, kind of, you know, like, tall tales being told that way. You just get, like, more of that moment. I agree with VP. I kind of would like a more punk ass way for Quentin Tarantino to die. I do like him turning into a monster, though. So I'm very conflicted now after hearing her pitch.
56:40
Sam
But I thought another way was that he could actually be lured to the, like, to the bathroom or to the back somewhere still within the bar because it's closed and kind of, like, think that he's going to get the better of one of the dancers and kind of have them turn on him. And I know this means that Tarantino does not get his feet moment. I'm really sorry. He does not get to drink tequila or whatever off of some Hayek's feet. But it's. I just think that it's like he's such a predator that I think that it would be like. Like, you know, they're having a good time. They're shooting the shit with these other guys. His brother is telling him to, like, you know, calm down, because maybe he can even have, like, sort of, like.
57:27
Sam
Like words with one of the others, maybe sex machine, right? Maybe this is. Maybe. Maybe he has words with the crotch guy. We can still put crotch gun guy in there, right? We still have crotch gun show. Like, maybe, like, you know, and. And George Clooney's like, you know, calm down. And he's like, all right, I'm just. I'm gonna go to the bathroom. And go to the bathroom. And he sees one of the dancers off the floor, and he decides to follow her. And, you know, he's gonna do his creepy ass shit that he does, because we know that he's a rapist. We know that he's a murderer. He's been still being creepy with Juliette Lewis's character, and maybe he does just get bitten there, and then he does come back and become a vampire.
58:03
Sam
But I think it's that moment that seals his deal, and that's, like, the first inkling that, you know, like, something's really fucking wrong. Like. Like, she, like, grabs him in, like, into a stall, but, like, the door is closed, and then you hear him scream, like, not like. Like that kind of thing. So you don't see what. What happened happen, but you see him return. And then you can still have Selma Hayek come out, do a dance. You can still have him sit there, right? He's kind of.
58:28
Case
He's.
58:28
Sam
He's hiding his. His bite somehow, doing her sexy thing with the snake. And I think you can have him turn, like, and be the first thing to turn, like, oh, shit. And then people be like, oh, fuck. And then everyone start running. And then, like, the dancers. Other dancers turn because they realize, like, something's giving it away. And, like, then you have mayhem, like, ensue, and you can still have him killed. And you can have him killed by someone else, like, not even his brother, because he's killed in the first half because he turned into a fucking monster. And then basically, like, the rest of it is just, like, the mayhem that happens within the bar. And that's how I'd fix it. I would just fix the whole first half of the movie and do a small buildup. Case. Your turn.
59:20
Case
Yeah. I think we're all kind of in similar spots because this movie, ironically, is a good candidate for kind of a tarantino esque structure that it actually doesn't have, like, to do a reservoir dogs or a pulp fiction, like, we're going to move around in time or have a big jump cut kind of thing. It doesn't happen in this movie. And that actually, I think, is to its detriment. I really like the border crossing scene, and it would be difficult to have that be a flashback and still get the tension from that scene. So I'm not sure about how to necessarily like either. That could become, like, the cold opening, but I do like the cold opening as it is.
59:59
Case
I think that, aside from the slurs, I think that overall, it works pretty well to sort of set up the type of vibe that we're going to get. Especially because we're getting both the Tarantino style dialogue in all of that, and then also the gunplay. Like, I think that, like, the way Clooney solves the situation by, like, shooting, or, like, having his brother shoot out the bottles and then lighting the toilet paper roll on fire and tossing that. I think that's really good there. I think that shows creativity that will pay off later. I think we get a lot of the sense of what the movie's going to be like. And I am a little worried about having a it, like, be like that and then cut to the family and the camper or something like that, and then reveal that they're inside, too.
01:00:41
Case
Because I think that all of a sudden, the two scenes are really similar. Like, if you cut out everything in between. So I would still probably keep a certain amount of time to get to them, to the bar. I would open basically the same cold opening. We get the, you know, the grindhousey kind of like title crawl that they're doing, because that's the type of movie they're trying to make. We get maybe out of line where while they're driving, being like, are you hungry? I could eat. So that we then cut to them, or we cut to Harvey Keitel and his family arriving. We can have some of that dialogue. We can establish the whole lost our faith kind of element. We can get those kind of vibes. We're all saying the same thing here. I realized that we get that vibe. They arrive.
01:01:25
Case
Maybe they've only pulled into the burger spot, or maybe they pull into the hotel. Let's say they pull into the hotel because Keitel is talking about how tired he is, which couldn't pay off very well if he's exhausted. And that carries through for the rest of the movie there. He never gets that nap or anything. So they arrive almost immediately, get taken hostage by Clooney and Tarantino. And this way we can set up what happened to their previous hostage in flashes, rather than having to do it, like, the way that it's cut in that scene where he comes in and walks in on them or walks in on the body. Like, we could have that being like, didn't you? Like, I heard the news. I thought you had a hostage.
01:02:04
Case
And then we can show flashes of that while they, like, arrive at the border crossing. I say, get them into the town, have. Have them try to figure out where the bar is. And I would like to have people talk about being like, oh, I passed that bar all the time. I've never gone in. Like, I think that needs to be a really clear detail because that's, like, the bar has to be a thing that everyone knows about but has never actually investigated, because that's. That. Like, that's why Cheech Marin number three said, like, you should go to that bar. Because I've passed it a billion times. No one ever really pays any attention to it.
01:02:37
Case
Like, it has to really feel like a hole in the wall so there can be, like, a little bit of a search for it as the sun is setting, you know, get. Get them to the bar, and then we can then do some of those flashbacks. They arrive. I had the same thought about champagne room situations or whatever it is, whatever the girls are doing. Have them pull guys away to start seeding the crowd with already made vampires or have people just disappear. The bar is starting to thin out, and we don't know why. We're not really watching it. You can start setting up a vibe that, oh, shit's going down. We, the audience, can be getting little bits and pieces. Things are bad when the, like, sure, keep. Keep the bouncer, the barker, and the.
01:03:21
Case
And the bartender coming in to, like, face them off. And when they all pull guns, have everyone in the bar pull guns. Like, this should be a bar full of, like, crazy people who are all armed and scary, and then that's when it's just, like. Like, shoots one of them, you know, basically the same way that it plays out. But have a few more people survive initially, like, they. The. When it's revealed that they're all vampires, we're immediately down to the family, the Gecko brothers and then Frost and sex machine. I think those. They need to all be ones who survive a little bit longer.
01:03:55
Case
Like, we established sex machine and frost early as being named characters, but we should have some red shirts in this group that we can dwindle down, because I don't think Salma Hayek's character should die immediately, or we need to have, like, some. Like, either she needs to be, like, the master vampire, or we need something like a blood altar or something, like, some sort of source of vampirism there. So that there's either a main bad guy or a big reason why they're there. Because once they kill all the vampires that are in the room and they're like, oh, we just hear the bats outside. Why are they under siege, necessarily? I get that the vampires want to kill them and that they're offended that these people came and did shit.
01:04:35
Case
But, like, from a cost benefit analysis, like, all they did is end up killing themselves. They all die. Like, all the vampires kill themselves, throwing themself at Clooney and company because they're all very soft. And they comment on that. They're all very soft. And v, that was a problem for you, that they're very soft. I think that Salma Hayek should be not soft. I think she should be really tough and scary. I think that works really well. And if you don't want to have her on set for most of this time, have her be in her weird snake form. Have fucking snakes everywhere. Because, like, that's like, I didn't think she was a lizard. I thought she was a snake. And she's got the snake when she comes in.
01:05:12
Case
And I think snakes are equally creepy and could be all, like, slithering around and coming in through weird holes and they're having to, like, cut their heads off and shit. Like, and maybe. Maybe cutting their heads off. Actually, we know for a fact that in this movie, cutting heads off doesn't kill the vampire. So that can be part of the thing. Like, they're actually. Yeah, they might be easy to wound, but difficult to kill. And I think that they should be sort of fleeing. And they're like, how? Like, they go down into the basement. How fucking big is this basement? And we eventually, at the end of the movie, see how big this basement is. It's a huge temple, but at first it's just like, we never get that vibe.
01:05:43
Case
They're just, like, constantly trying to pull back deeper and deeper into the bar structure. And we shouldn't see stuff that necessarily tips the hand that it's this big temple, but we should get the vibe that it's huge. Like, that it's downstairs. It's massive. As. As they are pulling back, we lose a bunch of bikers. They pull back, we lose a bunch of bikers. They pull, you know, they get to a safe spot. That's when we lose sex machine and frost. You know, build. Build all that out. Make it a bit more. Because, like, the. My understanding is that the original script that Tarantino wrote was basically, the bar stuff. And then it was like, this is not a full screenplay. And wrote out the whole front part of in his normal style, which is why it feels like such a ham.
01:06:26
Case
Like two different scripts just stitched together. It's like, all right, well, here's, like, the prequel movie for all this, and I think we should race to get to the bar. And as we're all saying, once we're at the bar, tell some stories for the characters. Find out more about Frost, find out more about sex machine. Find out, you know, we can reveal more of the details we can actually hear. Do the stuff about, like, what happened to that first hostage, the one that was in their car.
01:06:51
Case
You know, we're all saying the same thing here because it is, I think, very obvious that this movie could have just integrated those two, like, the two sets, like, sides of it, like, the stuff leading up to them getting to the bar and the bar stuff together so that, like, the sun sets and it's dusk, 30 minutes into the movie rather than an hour into the movie. And even if for 30 minutes, we're not actually, like, dealing with the vampire stuff, we're just, like, cutting back to the morning or, like. Or to the daytime and seeing the shit that got them all into this bar. At the very least, we're at the dusk part of from dusk till dawn. So that then the, you know, the survival till dawn matters because it's like, what?
01:07:31
Case
Like 08:00 when the sun actually sets some, you know, sometime, assuming it's, like, summer ish there. So. Yeah, all right, that's. That's a lot of hours that they have to survive. And if Keitel is really tired, we can, like, set up those vibes. You know, we can have stuff that happens to really feel like it, because as it is, I was shocked when it, like, oh, it's dawn now, because it hadn't been that much time that we'd seen them on screen at night. Like, it felt like they'd only been there a couple hours as opposed to, like, 8 hours, you know? But like I said, I kind of feel like we're all kind of in the same space here. Like, we need to get to that bar a little bit sooner.
01:08:07
Case
And we can tell some of the information once we get to the bar, because they need to feel like they're trapped in the space, and we need to feel like we're living in the space for a while.
01:08:15
V
Yeah, and that's actually a really good point about the amount of time passage, because the title is from dusk till dawn. And that's the thing. You kind of forget how long it's been. There's no way of them. There's never a time mentioning, oh, it's midnight or whatever, so that you kind of mentally can keep in near the back of your head. They've got this amount of time left. It just seems. Yeah, like, we don't really get a feel for. How long do they have to keep doing this for?
01:08:47
Sam
No one has a watch. Yeah, no one's checking it like that. I mean, honestly, just by adding someone with a watch. And it could have been, you know, the sun, it could have been the youngest. It could have been like, it was like sun. What time is it? And, you know, it's. It's 1130. Fuck. You know, like, you know, time check. You know, people could just yell at time check, and you, like, tell the time. And then that builds something else because, you know, people are trying to like, and then you could have the watch break at some point and they have no idea what time it is anymore. They can't even know. And especially at the end, like, there is no watch. And it's just the two of them standing there in the center with all these snake or lizard vampires around them.
01:09:33
Sam
And they're kind of back to back, and then accidentally they shoot a wall and light comes in and they're like, don is here. You know, it's like. And that would have been a nice added. You only have to do it three times. Two checks, and, like, one break of a watch, you're good.
01:09:50
Case
And that first check could be right when they get there. Like, it could be while they're, like, before shit goes bad.
01:09:55
V
Yeah, because they're waiting on Carlos. And it could be like a, you know, I don't think they even established that, like, Carlos is supposed to be here at a certain time. He just says, we're gonna meet here. So it could be something that, like, Carlos says he's gonna meet us here at midnight. And then, you know, as time goes on, you're like, well, there's no Carlos. And then, oh, stuff is really starting to hit the fan here as the night wears on. Like, both of you have mentioned, like, the dancers are weeding people out by taking them back to private dance rooms, but they're not getting what they think they're getting. They're getting killed. And then we can feel like, well, it's three in the morning and Carlos isn't here, and there's vampires.
01:10:37
V
So we've got x amount of time until the sun comes up.
01:10:42
Sam
Yeah.
01:10:43
Case
Yeah.
01:10:43
Sam
I think in the end of the movie, though, Carlos does have a throwaway line that says, but you wanted to meet in the morning, so I had you meet me here, which is open from dusk till Dawn. I think it's just a reason to say the line again, like, the title of the movie again. So I think he. He did plan to meet him in, like, in the morning when the bar closed.
01:11:03
Case
That's actually a thing I wish that we got earlier in the movie. Like, they say that they're meeting Carlos there, but there's no, like, scene where he's on the phone or something like that, where we could, like, kind of get, like, I don't. I realize that when we've got three Cheech Marens, like, we can't. We. We have to space out when we see the Cheech Marens. So we can't have him, like, see the other side of that call. But I would like to get more kind of sense of why Don matters for this meetup. Like, for example, if he is going to be, like, the earliest he would get there is, like, 07:00 a.m. Or something to that effect. You know, dawn is a weird thing to say for casual human interaction. Like, we exist with clocks. We exist with times. Like we say.
01:11:47
Case
Like, if I say I have to be someplace in the morning, I don't say I have to be there when the sun rises. I say I have to be there at 630.
01:11:56
Sam
I have to be at work as the sun rises. I will get up with the dawn.
01:12:04
Case
When the cock crows, we'll leave this place. But it'd be nice to sort of, like, establish, like, okay, well, we're gonna get out of here. But the reason why he's not gonna be here until the morning, it's an eight hour drive or something like that. Or it's a twelve hour drive from where he is. He will get there as fast as he can. There's a train. It should feel like the human world has these artificial, very rigid kind of constructions. Again, time is this, like, linear breakdown that we impose on a cycle of day and night. And the vampire world having that sort of natural vibe of preternatural, but of, like, the sun sets and they can come out and kill people, and then the sun rises, and they have to go slithering away. Those are where it's budding up against each other.
01:12:49
Case
And I would like more of the sense of why they happen to sync up in this scenario. Like, why does Clooney care about leaving at dawn versus at midnight? What is the pushing factor there? Why does he have to wait for that point? Because they say at some point before dawn, Carlos will show up and will be gone. I believe the line that he says. And I just would like more specificity there so that there feels like the cavalry might show up by that point. Outside of just the sun will rise. Oh. And then they don't.
01:13:25
V
Because, yeah. To me, like, before, like, if you're meeting a contact who is like, you known to be on the down low, like, he's not a good person. He's, you know, helping you with your crime enterprises, like, it just seems like if someone said, oh, we're meeting him before dawn, I would think he's meeting, like, probably, you know, between midnight and three ish in the morning at some, like, biker bar. Like, that's still kind of before dawn. But the fact, yeah, I wouldn't think that. Oh, I'm going to meet this contact at the skeevy bar at seven in the morning. Like, why is he going to waltz in with, like, an iced coffee? It's just, it just seems, yeah, it's like that kind of gets lost. Like, I don't know. I just feel like it doesn't make a lot of sense.
01:14:07
V
He would be, unless they specified, like, oh, he's 8 hours away and he is rushing to get here and something like that. So we just have to, like, try to wait it out and hopefully he'll get here soon. Like, even just like one of those fake, like, you know, one sided conversation. Like they grab a payphone, it's like, oh, okay, you're on your way. All right, see you when you get here.
01:14:27
Sam
Yeah, yeah. I now would, like, teach number three to show up with coffee, though, just because.
01:14:34
Case
Yeah. Like, now I'm wondering, like, I hadn't thought about this before, but what if Cheech three was the vampire boss? Like, if they, what if they had never actually met him face to face and he was like, come here. I don't know if that this is necessarily better, but, like, at the very least, it gives us, like, a structure for why he would be there. And like, sure, it's nice that it's just like, oh, I never really gave it much thought. It's just I saw this bar, I passed by it a bunch, but because, like, I, as a 37 year old man. Oh, fuck. Would not just voluntarily be like, oh, I'm just gonna be awake this whole time at a bar. Like, I would be like, no, I've got an rv. I'm gonna be sleeping out there.
01:15:12
Case
Like, I might go get some drinks and then come back and crash, but, like, why would I be, like, awake this whole time if you're just gonna meet me in the morning anyway?
01:15:20
Sam
Yeah, I mean, there's no reason to meet, like, or be at the bar in the evening if you know me. Like, if you're just gonna meet at 07:00 a.m. And you're meeting at 07:00 a.m. Because nobody's there, you can just show up at 07:00 a.m. Like, unless the idea is to hide amongst lots of people and somehow, like, being in a crowd of people makes you feel safer than hiding alone in an rv somewhere. Not sure how that works, but I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine.
01:15:52
V
I think that was their logic, was that since they are wanted criminals, that. Not that Mexico doesn't have a reputation for sending criminals back, necessarily. So I don't know. Like, are the mexican police even looking for them? Like, who would be? I mean, I just didn't really kind of get the full stakes of, like, it's one thing if maybe there was some indication that maybe, like, the mexican cops are looking for them, because then there's even more stakes. Like, they need to hide out. Especially, like, this place is kind of like, their people. They're tough guys.
01:16:27
V
So if they can all kind of blend in together in a place that, like, the cops don't really go to, that's, like, kind of, I don't know, like, their own little neck of the woods, it would make sense that maybe you should just stay there around, like, your own kind of people, that, you know, there's lots of guns. You can't just be, like, taken quickly. It makes sense. But, yeah, if someone was like, oh, you need to be awake from, like, now till seven, I'd be like, hard pass. I will find a way to sleep for a few hours. Yeah. Like, if they just even just stayed in the rv in, like, the parking lot for a little bit, that is, like, an option, but obviously that's not a. Not a fun movie.
01:17:07
V
It's just, like, a bunch of people awkwardly sleeping in an rv.
01:17:13
Case
I wonder what's going on in there.
01:17:15
Sam
Also, none of us have neck tattoos, so we don't know. We don't know what you have to do in order to hide yourself when you have that kind of marker from the law, when you're a criminal, it's a pretty established mark.
01:17:30
V
Yeah. I was actually reading this thing about tattoo trends through history and a lot of tattoo artists were talking about how that tattoo spurred on the tribal tattoo armband craze that was popular in the nineties. It obviously had traction before this because clearly he's sporting it for a reason. But it was funny that it's like, when they were like, oh, what's the biggest trend from the nights? They're like, oh, yeah, the Clooney armband. That's, like, that's the up to the neck wasn't common because a lot of people don't have neck tattoos because you can't hide it as well. But it's just kind of funny that, like, this movie spurred on this, like, somewhat kind of mocked trend. You know? Like, oh, remember back in the day, every guy had one of those, like, tribal tattoos? Yeah.
01:18:19
Case
Because even if that bar didn't have vampires, I wouldn't want to, like, I wouldn't want to sleep there. I wouldn't want to fall asleep there. Like, I would have to be awake the whole time. And that sounds like hell. Maybe if it was more like a rest stop or, like a. Like a brothel that had, like, a hotel brothel. Yeah. Like, it should feel like an old timey kind of, like, western bar, like, you know, with, like, a madam and, like. Like, that kind of vibe. Like, where it's like, yeah, you're going to spend the night here with one of our girls, but, you know, we'll spend the night, like, and that makes sense, to spend the night at a location like that.
01:18:51
Case
As opposed to, like, if it's, like, a strip club bar, I really can't imagine being there without, like, going fucking insane for more than, like, 6 hours. And, like, if you're arriving at sunset and you have to be there until sunrise, that's awful.
01:19:06
Sam
What I also like about that is that kind of bar, like, what I'm imagining, like, an old west saloon kind of place has more space. Like, I feel like this set was very, like, it kind of felt like there were, like, three rooms and. And it's kind of like, could they really survive? Like, that's why your idea of going into a basement would be great, but if there's already an upstairs where their rooms are. Right. And then the party's kind of separated. Right. Because there's no way that Quentin Tarantino's character is going to stay in his room. Like, he's, like, even though his brother's going to ask him to just stay put and lay low, he's still going to go down and make trouble because that's who he is. But, like, that gives you kind of, like two floors.
01:19:51
Sam
Like, real floors, like, and rooms and places for things to hide and people to hide. So it gives you a chance and an opportunity to kind of play with other forms of, you know, like a hide and go seek kind of format too, later on. And also, I always get really nervous when people like, the group that's supposed to survive get separated. So that would add to the tension, you know, because, like, you want together to protect each other. So, yeah, I think old timey, saloon esque kind of bar with rooms and a madam would best. I think that would be an improvement.
01:20:31
Case
Yeah. Just a second story would make, like, make this make so much more sense.
01:20:35
V
Well, that's my other pitch, if you don't mind me saying. It's more, I guess, like, yeah, go for it. Less detail oriented, because I would be taking out a lot. I could also see this movie not having any supernatural elements at all. And it's like I kind of have the. The opposite opinion of Sam and other, like, people who are big, like, fans of this movie because of the. The bar. I kind of struggle to pay attention as soon as they kind of get their table and get situated because I now, on a rewatch, I know what's coming, and it takes the real world stakes out of it, because part of the tension that might also be uncomfortable for non horror fans with the opening is it's possible to be taken hostage by bank robbers or what have you.
01:21:26
V
Like, they also have those two blonde teenagers that are hostages that they thankfully let go. So it's like, they have a total of, what, like, six hostages throughout this thing. And, like, that's like, real life horror. They've killed, like, they have, I think, at least four confirmed kills, if not more so, like, that. Especially since I like true crime and stuff. Like, you can kind of almost build, like, a criminal profile on their motives and their behavior. And every time I know it's gonna happen that Quentin is gonna kill the woman hostage, I just feel there's a part of me when she's being yelled at by Seth. Just keep your mouth shut and you'll survive. That's rooting for her, okay.
01:22:13
V
She just knows that if she just plays it safe for a few hours, she might get out of here alive, and that tension then gets kind of broken, or your hope for her gets shattered. And then when you're in the bar, you don't really have all that tension because it's just kind of ridiculous. It's like these lizard, snake vampire women, and I'm not thinking, what would I do in that situation? I'm just like, I hope Quentin Tarantino gets killed in this scene because he's a vampire. Now. You're kind of. Yeah, it's taken out of that true to life horror. So I could almost see, you know, and also, especially writing it as, I don't know, have either of you seen natural born killers? So what he did and didn't write is up for debate.
01:22:59
V
But the first half of natural born killers feels very similar to the first half of this movie where it's, you know, a crime duo causing trouble. There's, you know, a diner scene. There's some banter, there's some violence. If we just kind of continue with that theme of a duo, in this case, a brother team just trying to escape, and then they think that their problem will be solved by jumping the border. But then maybe that kind of almost Thelma and Louise pursuit continues that maybe they don't know. Like I mentioned earlier, that the mexican police got tipped off that there's two american bank robbers coming their way and maybe they want to send them back for a bounty, or even a bounty hunter is coming after them.
01:23:48
V
Or that Carlos, we've kind of hinted at me, maybe he is going to do them dirty and he's just sending them to this shitty biker bar to get the crap beaten out of them so he can just take the full loot and skedaddle. So I kind of want to keep, like, I. It's like, because clearly, you know, Quentin Tarantino just put his. His signature on top of this vampire movie, and it's like, I kind of wish it's either all vampires or they even just remove the supernatural. And it's just these two varying levels of horrible people trying to survive and see if they can, you know, beat out, like, a bounty hunter or whatever while, you know, keeping these hostages with them.
01:24:29
Case
Yeah, I like that a lot. I like the idea of, like, Juliette Lewis's character trying to figure out these two awful men that have taken her family hostage and trying to figure out what's the way to see tomorrow. Kind of on that vibe where it's like, well, they're awful and they might kill us, but maybe these other guys are even worse. What is happening with the vampires, but where there's a little bit more back and forth because once the vampire is introduced, you're like, well, obviously, I am going to side with George Clooney in this situation. He has a gun. Again, they are monsters versus if they're gangsters or something like that it might go a different direction or a crooked cop or something to that effect.
01:25:10
V
Yeah. And I wanted more of the fact that Richie clearly hears people say things to him that aren't real. I didn't pick up on my first viewing, but the second viewing here, he thinks the teller at the boo's shop is mouthing, help me to the cop, which he is clearly not because we're watching that whole conversation and he never mouths anything. And at first I thought that was just him being evil, being like, oh, I want my brother to kill this guy because I don't like him. So I'm gonna just, like, rat on him. But then it turns out, like, after he, like, imagines Juliette Lewis, like, asking him to eat her out, they're just like, it's clear that he's, like, imagining people saying stuff.
01:25:53
V
And I wish that, like, they go to a biker bar, like, either, you know, vampires or no vampires, and hears some dangerous dude say shit to him. And then now that is, like, the kickoff for the violence because he thinks this guy, like, you know, swore at him, but he didn't. And now, like, he has to get Seth to defend him and stuff like that. It's like I wanted his, like, clearly somewhat mental illness of, like, imagining conversations to, like, get the better of them.
01:26:22
Case
Yeah, I wanted to pay off too, on that one. I thought that was going to make him more, like, more susceptible to the vampires or something. And we get none of that in the movie as it's written.
01:26:31
V
Yeah, I think it's just supposed to be like, oh, this guy's like a crazy sex fiend. I think that was, like, the whole point of the hearing voices that don't exist or hearing a person, like, as far as I know, because I used to work in mental health. So, like, as far as I know, there isn't, like, a disorder where you hear a person who's, like, actually turning and talking to you. Like, you might hear their voice disembodied, but, like, that's clearly just movie magic. But it's like, I think the reason Quentin put that in was just, like, to play up this guy is dangerous. Not like this is going to be their downfall.
01:27:06
Sam
Which is interesting, because later on when sex machine is turning into a vampire, he does hear the vampires on the other side saying, like, whispering, like, kill them. And, like, that's kind of what, like, quickens his transformation, which is Harvey Cattell's character knows that it's going to take an hour specifically, which is very interesting. I don't know how he knew the number of, like, how he was going to turn. Again, there's no real time markers in the film, but they do use, like, this voice, like this, like, the vampires are behind and they, like, he starts hearing it. Like, instead of hearing the story, you're hearing them say that. So it is kind of interesting that they kind of use voices, like, evil voices to change one person. And that's something that happened to Tarantino before. I don't know.
01:28:00
Sam
I feel like it's like one of those things where they. They dropped the thread and kind of like, oh, yeah, we can use this. This happens sometimes, you know?
01:28:07
Case
Yeah. Again, that's like, how the movie feels. Like two scripts are being mashed together rather than having a coherent thing. Sam actually mentioning the hour thing for Harvey Keitel. So it's really inconsistent because, like, frost, like, immediately transforms when he gets bitten. And, like, that actually would have been a really interesting element to help pace out. Like, how long the night is going is every time someone goes down to a vampire, when they show up an hour later, that means been an hour. So that every, like, that could have been a nice element. Again, the movie just doesn't really have a great sense of time throughout this whole thing. The actual.
01:28:38
Case
The actual night, the actual dusk till dawn happens very quickly, and I just wish it was spread out a bit more, or at the very least, that were given more of a sense for it. V, I like your idea of doing a non vampire one. I think that could be a really cool script. The only catch on that one is that this script was originally written from the construction of being like, let's make a vampire.
01:28:59
V
Yeah, that's why. That's my backup.
01:29:02
Case
Right. But I like all of these, and I think we all kind of were circling a similar kind of pitch for that reason, like, where it's like, we can all very clearly see how it could have worked a little bit better and been one movie instead of two, which a lot of people didn't like at the time. And even if you do, like, as your vibe, like, it's a specific kind of one. Like, you have to be, like, down for, like, that. Kind of like, oh, we're just going to pivot. And it doesn't make it one coherent story. It's just two stories that happened in the same. Between the same set of, like, opening and credits. So I don't know. I think we've all speculated pretty well on what we could do with this.
01:29:43
Case
I've never seen it where three of us have had such a similar basic pitch for a movie before and I think that just sort of speaks to the flaws with this movie being so glaringly. Like, this is exactly what needs to be done to make it kind of work bit better. Like, get to the bar, like, flashback a little bit, deal with that stuff.
01:30:00
Sam
Yeah.
01:30:00
Case
Or totally rewrite this and make it a totally different kind of Tarantino movie and have Robert Rodriguez gunplay in there. Like, that actually would be a movie I would love to have seen back in the nineties. I don't think either of them are doing those kind of movies anymore. But, man, that would have been fun to have a Tarantino written El Mariachi style movie.
01:30:20
V
Yeah, that would be fun.
01:30:22
Case
Maybe about bad people. Like, you know, imagine. Imagine Rodriguez directing. Directing, like, reservoir dogs. That have been a lot of fun. And, like, this movie has a lot of those good vibes. Like, I like the scene where Clooney is like, don't tell me that there are no vampires because, like, we're all dealing with vampires right now. Great fucking stuff. I love all of that. I like all these, like, really tense scenes that are in there. And I like the Rodriguez style gunplay that. It's all fun stuff. I just wish it fit better together, but it doesn't. And people keep trying to make it work. Like, there have been a lot of sequels. There are two sequels and then there's a tv show that came off of it. I've heard the tv show is pretty good. The sequels are apparently really bad.
01:30:59
Case
I don't think anyone's really surprised because they were direct to video movies and that's just like, eh. But, you know, it clearly has a cool aesthetic. Like, the sort of, like, mexican vampire vibe is, like, pretty cool. So, yeah, I don't know. It's a property that I think has a lot of fans for a reason, but it's a cult kind of fandom. And, would have been fun if it was a true classic. But it's. It's not quite up there. It's. It's got mixed reviews. It, you know, did fine because it was super cheap. But it's not. And apparently it launched neck tattoos. Like, but I. But it's no one's favorite tarantino movie. It's no, you know, it's no one's favorite vampire movie. It's just. Yeah, it's a.
01:31:37
Case
It's a perfectly fine one that has all the flaws that the creators put in all their works. Yeah. So, v, I feel like we're done talking about this movie. Why don't we talk about you?
01:31:47
V
Yeah. All right. So for social media, I am on Twitter and Instagram. That's t a w r I t e, repeat. And you can get my novel Shadow cast on Amazon. It is a dark psychological thriller about a true crime podcaster who was trying to find her friend who went missing back in high school. And I've got three short stories that will, that are available. Exit 13 January release and legacy employees also can be found exclusively on Kindle.
01:32:23
Case
Awesome. Well, thank you again for coming back on Sam. Where can people find you?
01:32:27
Sam
They can find me here, and I am checking the discord more. So, like, I guess, like, I will try to respond to you there and nowhere else because I actually am a figment of cases imagination. And when answer on the discord, it's just really case answering you and.
01:32:45
Case
Right. She's the voices that I hear in my head because I'm Tarantino.
01:32:48
Sam
Exactly. Except I don't make case hurt anyone more likely or just maybe just himself. Like, get an extra piece of cakes. Cake case. Oh, my God. Cake case. That's a tongue Twister. But, yeah, otherwise you can find case.
01:33:03
Case
At as Sam mentioned, you can find me on the discord. Check that out. You can find it at certain where you have great conversations. We're having this call right now on Discord, but you can also just, like, share memes, chat about your favorite movies, comics, books, whatever. Like, lots of great conversations. Again, find that link@certainpov.com. You can find the podcast on Twitter anotherpass. You can find me on Twitter ace aiken. And yeah, like, we're doing tons of fun stuff, so stay tuned. Sam, what are we actually talking to? Talking about next time.
01:33:35
Sam
Next time we'll be talking about Highlander two, the quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.
01:33:46
Case
Thanks for listening to certain point of views. Another past podcast. Don't miss an episode. Just subscribe and review the show on iTunes. Just go to certainpov.com dot. Cool. Yeah, there's only one time where someone not wearing earbuds saved the day, which was when I did. Everybody wants some. And my, for whatever reason, my file got corrupted and we lost all my audio. But Hans was my guest on that one, and he had it turned up so loud that you could hear me perfectly clearly on his audio track. And I was like, oh, wow, perfect. Yay. Craig stayed with us this whole time.
01:34:43
Sam
What?
01:34:45
Case
I can't remember the last time that happened.
01:34:46
Sam
No, it's like a, it's a dusk till dawn miracle CpOv certainpov.com.