Episode 95 - Superman: Earth One with Keith Lehtinen & Josue Aguayo

To talk about J. Michael Straczynski’s take on a realistic Superman origin… the optimistic one that is… Case and Jmike are joined by Keith and Josue from “We Have Issues”!

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Meeting summary:

●      The meeting discussed the 'Superman: Earth One' comic series by J. Michael Straczynski, covering key points such as character development, artwork, themes, and potential future discussions. Action items were assigned to Case Aiken to review the series and prepare for the next podcast episode.

Notes:

●      📚 Introduction to 'Superman: Earth One' (00:01 - 09:41)

●      Discussion on J. Michael Straczynski's storytelling style.

●      Introduction of podcast hosts and guests.

●      Comparison to previous podcast topics.

●      🦸‍♂️ Volume 1 Overview (09:42 - 20:45)

●      Initial impressions of 'Superman: Earth One' Volume 1.

●      Comparison to 'Man of Steel' movie.

●      Discussion on Clark Kent's character and his journey.

●      Introduction of supporting characters: Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen.

●      Analysis of the antagonist Tyrell.

●      📖 Volume 2 Overview (20:45 - 30:33)

●      Introduction of new character Lisa Lasalle.

●      Discussion on the villain Parasite.

●      Clark Kent's relationship with humanity and his struggles.

●      Analysis of key scenes and character interactions.

●      Themes of power and responsibility.

●      🛡️ Volume 3 Overview (30:33 - 40:57)

●      Introduction of Lex Luthor and Alexandra Luthor.

●      Discussion on the villain Zod.

●      Clark Kent's continued character development.

●      Key plot points and resolutions.

●      Final thoughts on the series.

●      🔍 Character Analysis (40:57 - 51:21)

●      In-depth look at Clark Kent's development.

●      Supporting characters: Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Lisa Lasalle.

●      Villains: Tyrell, Parasite, Zod.

●      Relationships and interactions among characters.

●      🎨 Art and Style (51:21 - 01:01:47)

●      Discussion on Shane Davis's artwork in Volumes 1 and 2.

●      Comparison to Adrian Syaf's artwork in Volume 3.

●      Impact of art on storytelling and character portrayal.

●      Favorite artistic moments and panels.

●      📝 Themes and Motifs (01:01:47 - 01:11:47)

●      Recurring themes in 'Superman: Earth One'.

●      Clark Kent's relationship with humanity.

●      Power and responsibility.

●      Comparison to other Superman stories.

●      📅 Future Discussions (01:11:49 - 01:22:48)

●      Potential for a second trilogy of 'Superman: Earth One'.

●      Interest in other Earth One series (Wonder Woman, Flash).

●      Speculation on future projects by J. Michael Straczynski.

●      🎙️ Podcast Wrap-Up (01:22:48 - 01:34:08)

●      Final thoughts and reflections on 'Superman: Earth One'.

●      Plugs for other podcasts and projects.

●      Encouragement for listeners to read 'Superman: Earth One'.

●      Closing remarks and thank yous.

Transcription

00:00
Keith
We mentioned J. Michael Straczynski already, but it's. You can tell this is J. Michael Straczynski story. There's a certain heart to a J. Monica Straczynski story, and you can easily tell this is his. So, yeah, I think. I think it is from his specific lens, which I think is really interesting.

00:41
Case
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Men of Steel podcast. I'm case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, J. Mike Falsen.

00:48
Jmike
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show.

00:51
Case
Everyone is welcome here because today we are talking about the work of a different J. Mike, A. J. Michaels Traczynski, if you will.

01:00
Jmike
There can only be one.

01:03
Case
We have the hosts of. We have issues. We've got Keith.

01:07
Keith
Hi, everybody.

01:08
Case
And we've got Josue.

01:09
Josue
Hello. Hello. Thank you for having us.

01:11
Case
Thanks for coming back on. It's been a little over a year since we talked about the Snyder cut.

01:15
Josue
Yeah, this will be in much better taste.

01:18
Case
Yeah.

01:18
Jmike
I was like, wait, how long has it been? Oh, right, Snyder cut. All right. Memories.

01:25
Case
Yeah. Time flies when you're a desaturated blur. I have mixed thoughts on that one, but I think it gets too much hate from some people because we don't need all that negativity. It doesn't deserve an Oscar.

01:38
Josue
Oh, yeah, sure, agree.

01:40
Case
But too much negativity in general in the world.

01:42
Josue
But.

01:42
Case
So today we are talking about Earth one, which I had never really read. Like, I heard the premise. It was like, okay, it's a more realistic kind of Superman take. And I was like, okay, but we already have Superman's secret identity, and that's, like, one of my favorite comics. Like, can this ever be as good as that? And. No, but there are some really good moments in here. Oh, yeah. Some spots that, like, just fucking floored me. We'll talk about those, especially when we get to volume two.

02:07
Keith
Yeah, I really. So when were talking about doing this, you and I, were kind of kicking around ideas, and I threw this one out, and you jumped on it, and I was like, yeah, let's do that one. Because I really like this, and I have a very specific thing about this that I really enjoy to compare it to. So we'll get into that, I'm sure.

02:24
Josue
But, yeah, like, DC is usually my. Like, it's just completely outside of my wheelhouse. I just more of a Marvel boy. So, especially with Superman, I'll be very picky with what Superman I read, which is why I actually really love following your Twitter account, because it's very insightful on how I should be thinking on that mythos and just the bland superhero guy, but this was actually really fucking cool. I really like that I dove into this.

02:48
Keith
Yeah.

02:48
Case
Very cool setup for a character that is so easy to be overly mythic.

02:53
Josue
Yeah.

02:54
Case
The episode that will drop a couple episodes before this, we did the novel. It's Superman, which is a novel leading up to action comics number one, and having a realistic take on all that. And it's really fun when you kind of allow the artifice, the world War two propagandist elements of Superman, to kind of be stripped away and be like, oh, yeah. No. It's a person trying to decide how to do the right thing with power. And it's cool looking at this, because they are doing a very thoughtful deconstruction of the Superman mythos while at the same time not trying to subvert it too much.

03:30
Josue
Right.

03:31
Keith
Yeah, I agree. And I think also, like, as I said, we mentioned J. Michael Straczynski already, but you can tell this is J. Michael Straczynski story. There's a certain heart to a J. Monk Brzezinski score story, and you can easily tell this is his. So, yeah, I think. I think it is from his specific lens, which I think is really interesting.

03:53
Case
I kept thinking when I was reading this, if this was him taking ideas he had for supreme power and just, like, being like, all right, well, now I can actually play with the real Superman.

04:03
Keith
Yeah. Especially because his dedication at the beginning, you know, this was a dream come true. And I was like, mm. Like, supreme power was him just, like, doing what he can. He's like, wait, you're gonna give me actual Supermande? Like, yeah, definitely. He's like, why? Could do whatever I want. It's. It's not in canon. Oh, man. Let's do this. So.

04:19
Case
So I hadn't read this before. J Mike, had you read this before?

04:22
Jmike
No. I do remember when the first chapter one came out. I remember seeing it on the shelves of, like, the comic book stores and stuff in the before time. Yeah. I was like, oh, that'd be cool. But I have a bad habit of not wanting to start something and having to wait till the next part comes out of. So I was like, I'll just. I'll catch up with that later. And honestly, I actually enjoyed reading this. This was a lot of fun. I really liked it.

04:48
Case
How about you guys? When did you all read it?

04:50
Josue
Just 24 hours ago. I did my deep dive on all three, and I did enjoy it. Don't get me wrong, but just like J Mike, it's at least volume one and volume two are the ones I would just constantly see at the stores all the time. And it's like with just my vague knowledge of. Of DC on the DC side, I would just see a title. Superman Earth one. It's like I'm already thinking that's one of those what to compare. It's kind of like, what if or when they do, like, else worlds or like earth anywhere else on DC. So I didn't know where this one would stick as far as continuity wise. And I never do when it comes to DC, when it's like one of those, like it kind of is new. New origin story, new retelling.

05:26
Josue
So I never know where it's gonna fit. But now that I have the time where it's just like, whatever. It was actually really cool.

05:31
Keith
Like I said before, I read it upon publication. So at the time, I worked at a used bookstore you guys might be familiar with, depending where you are in the country called Hastings. And the employee discount on the used products was insane. So someone sold back the original hardback and it was like $3. And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to get that. So it was. But it was like shortly after it came out. And so I read it then. And yeah, I loved it. And again, as someone, I do lean more towards Kara than Cal. So with this, I was like, wow, this is really engaging and awesome and a Superman story I really enjoy. So, yeah, from back then, I didn't read the first two or the second two volumes until very recently, though.

06:19
Case
Yeah. Volume one has that really striking cover of Clark with like, the leather jacket and the hoodie. Like, opening up his shirt. Like, you know, very. It's both iconic, but it's also. It is changing the style. Like, it's updating the look that we expect. You know, it's. It's super similar, pardon the pun, to man of Steel hash one. But in this case, it's like updated fashions where we're telling a different type of Superman story and we're doing the red eyes thing, which is not a thing I always love for Superman. But you know what? It works pretty well in this particular cover because, like, it does make him feel alien.

06:54
Keith
Yeah. And it's. It's a very. Because I love Shane Davis's art, but it's a very wild storm art, like style art. And so it jumps out of you as not DC, even though it's Superman. You know what I mean? You're like, what's this? You know, it's not your typical Superman drawing. So. Yeah, I really. I like the hoodie. I always love a hoodie. I still think the best costume is Gwen Stacy's.

07:13
Case
So I saw recently they did a version of a Gwynvincival parody cover, and I was like, I need that as a hoodie. Like, because that one, that was just too good. Yeah. So talking about J. Michael Straczynski.

07:28
Jmike
I.

07:28
Case
Have mixed feelings because I. Oh, you're gonna be. This is gonna drive me crazy now. You know how I felt as a classical state, as a classical studies major in college where every latin class, they'd be like, what's the case of this? How about this case?

07:45
Josue
Wow.

07:46
Case
Do you know what it's like to be at an 08:00 a.m. Latin class hungover and hear your name just nonstop? It messes with the brain. All right, Straczynski. Straczynski. Is that. Go, J Mike.

07:58
Josue
J Mike.

07:58
Jmike
We're gonna do it live. We're gonna go with this. Okay.

08:01
Josue
Jamus.

08:03
Case
I always loved rising stars. I thought that was such a fun, cool series. I was a huge fan of Babylon five, so I was already primed to be like, all right, I'm good for this. Supreme power. I have mixed feelings about. I think there's a lot of stuff that's really good. I kind of got annoyed that because I was such a. I was such a fan of the Gruenwald Maxi series that the areas where they, like, kind of deviated and went back to being more dc, like, bugged me. But that was because I was a continuity wonk. And, like, I've since, like, sort of. I've let that go. Like, you know, Hyperion. Being an alien is one where I'm like, oh, but he's an eternal, you know.

08:40
Case
You know, there's all this, like, deep lore stuff that I felt, like, so proud that I knew.

08:43
Keith
Right. And then we're very defensive and protective of it because you're like, no, we know that you can't change that. Now I have to relearn it, right?

08:51
Case
And I've since divorced myself from that. And, like, I think supreme power was a really interesting thing that had, you know, it wasn't perfect, but it was interesting at doing, like, all right, well, what. What happens if an alien crash lands? Like, obviously, helicopters show up in the sky immediately? Like, they have to find out what's going on. That's clearly gonna happen. And this feels like a series where he's doing that, but he's also, he is being more true to Superman in that regard. While a lot of those elements are being stripped away and so forth, it's still a good Clark Kent from Smallville. They're not doing anything where it's like, oh, well, his parents were actually government stooges that were being paid to look after him and raise him as an american or something like that. You're not getting any of that.

09:38
Case
It's also not what people had told me. It's not secret identity. Like, it's still Smallville. It's still metropolis. It's still a DC world. It's just a new DC world. And I love that. It's what I always wanted. And I'm really mad that I missed these when they came out. But looking at the publication dates, this is right when new 52 was going on, and I checked out.

10:06
Josue
And that's actually where I kind of. I speak out my vague knowledge of DC. I was actually taking a break from Marvel because they were just going to everywhere. And I was. That was like, new 52 is kind of my jumping point for DC for a while, and we all know that trainwreck. So reading this really reminded me of Grant Morrison's initial run of his new 52 action comics. It was like, there's some similarities there. So I kind of. I kind of like that he got these two sides. Or at least, like, in this case, this was like a much more. It was like a fleshed out story of Grant Morris first art, because then after that steel story, and then it just goes. It just goes to garbage after issue.

10:40
Case
Six, once you start dealing with the memetic nature of Superman, issue six specifically.

10:46
Josue
Was like the retelling of its origin story. And it was like, what the fuck are we telling here? It was so bad. So at least, like, this earth one was actually. It reminded me of that one, but with a more fleshed out story. And I like that too, being in that world of metropolis, because I'm not really familiar with it.

11:01
Case
So why don't we talk about volume one? Because that's the first one that came out. That is the concept being put out there. It was interesting looking at it and being like, oh, it's basically the same story as man of Steel, the movie. But they take into consideration that people would have problems with casualties and so forth.

11:21
Keith
So that's one of the reasons why. And you guys know from our previous experience together that I'm not a big Snyder fan, but this book is actually one of the reasons that I cannot stand man of Steel, because they're actually being made at the same time. Man of Steel started production in 2008. This came out in 2010. So they were being made at the same time, and they're really similar stories. And this kind of puts man of Steel to shame. And that's when I'm like, this is what we could have gotten, like. And that's one of the reasons I get so upset. I'm like, this is so much better of a story. Why are we talking about this? And so that's kind of like, the thing I was hinting at earlier is, like, this very much.

12:01
Keith
I can't help but compare it directly to man of Steel when I read it and just get kind of upset. Specifically with. I don't know if we want to jump into specifics yet, but the use of the non Superman characters, specifically Jimmy Olsen.

12:18
Josue
Yeah.

12:19
Case
You know, a great Jimmy.

12:20
Jmike
Yeah, right.

12:22
Keith
Like, I love him. Like, he's. They all have a character. Like, it made me feel like. And again, I don't want to always compare one company to another, but it made the Daily Planet feel like the Daily Bugle. There's a certain energy in Spider man comics with Jonah and Betty Brandt and, you know, all. All the Robertsons and all that stuff going on. It's fun. And, like, I don't see that enough in Superman. Like, this. This crazy, like, packed newsroom feel. And then with this and with them arguing with Perry. I love that. Like, that was some of my favorite stuff in the book.

12:53
Josue
So, yeah, I mean, obviously, the obvious comparisons to man of Steel, down to the fucking drilling to the corner.

13:01
Keith
And the gravity ray.

13:03
Jmike
Yes.

13:03
Case
Yeah.

13:05
Keith
Like, yeah, good.

13:07
Josue
But, yeah, what I really liked about that, too, was exactly what you said. Keith was just, like, exploring Lois and Jimmy. Like, Olson actually having Jimmy in the story and having them be actual characters, like, not necessarily having a love interest plot line, having to go through it or will they? Won't they? That's not even anywhere near it, even though you expect it because you know the history. But I love that it wasn't up and centered. They got to be their own actual characters before we got to get to those moments, which we don't even do, which is really cool. Which is what I liked about the story. We actually take our time with these people.

13:40
Case
Yeah. And it sets up. I mean, like, you know, we're kind of jumping around the story because it is fairly straightforward of, like, Superman shows up, he tries to do some good. Aliens show up, forces him into the spotlight. Like, that structure of man of Steel is pretty much one to one here. It's so close. It's so close.

13:58
Keith
Specifically, alien's there only for him.

14:01
Case
Yes. Yeah. When he shows up on the screen being we're looking for them, I'm like, wait, is this just man of steel?

14:08
Keith
It's like the novelization. It's basically what it is. Sometimes the novelization's better than the movie. I'm just saying.

14:18
Case
But so they, you know, so they show up and whatnot. The thing that I think is really impressive here is that from. It's mostly, like, nailed at the end, when Superman is speaking to Lois about it all, or rather, Clark is speaking to Lois about it all, that humanity impresses him. And it's a theme that continues into volume two and three. I'm gonna know right now. I didn't finish three. I'm sorry. I had a really crazy week. I was reading one. I read one and two. I'm halfway through three when we had to actually start recording. So I'm sorry, but one and two super hardcore nail this theme of Clark Kent, who feels outside of humanity, is impressed by humanity.

15:00
Case
And I like that idea for one of the reasons why he feels he has to give of himself to humanity, because they are a thing that inspires him.

15:08
Josue
Yeah. And going back to what you said earlier, too, about just like, this, it's very small ver. Likes, like, this Clark. I like that about this Clark, too, that I was just. He's obviously is an alien. He's like you said, he's learning from humanity, but he's not, like, just weird, you know? Like, he's like, he grew up with us, so he's able to have conversations, not just like, oh, I don't know about this. Like, just like almost every other alien story. I like how grounded he is.

15:34
Keith
Yeah. I think. I think everything with a lot of good Superman stories, everything goes back to mom, pop, Ken, just the selflessness of two humans taking him in for no reason other than it's the right thing to do kind of sets Clark from his earliest days on the right path. And we've seen that with some else world stories of Superman where that doesn't happen. He's not necessarily the same person morally or whatever. So. Yeah, I think. Yeah. Just maybe the. Sure. I mean, it's never explicitly said in the text, but I always took that into account as, like, he might have just been blown away by the fact these two people brought all this trouble into their lives for no other reason than it seemed like the right thing to do. And that's just this first interaction with humans. You know what I mean?

16:14
Keith
And that's amazing.

16:14
Case
So, yeah, it's, you know, it's always a difficult line to walk when you try to discuss the alien nature of Superman, you know, because, like, the original idea was that, oh, he's just like us, but super evolved. And as you sort of start to realize, like, well, no, I mean, he's an alien. Like. Like, even if you took a different ape and evolved them to some sort of super far down point, they'd be different than us. We already know that chimpanzees are better at certain types of math than we are. They would just be different if they continued down a path to sapiency.

16:52
Case
Did you guys ever read there was a short story in this collection of prose superhero stuff from the early nineties, late eighties called one of the boys, where it's about this woman who becomes obsessed with a superman type character, and she figures out who he is and confronts him at his apartment, only to realize that the apartment is way too hot for people, that the food that he eats all smells terrible because it's this weird mix of chemicals, and that he just doesn't understand people. And that he's just a superhero because that's a thing he can figure out. It's a place where he can feel like he belongs and he feels like he's doing the right thing. But other, like, he. But he doesn't get it.

17:36
Case
Like, he doesn't get that she's coming on to him in the first place because she shows up and he looks a little weird. And his eyes look human enough, but there's something wrong with the pupils, and she can't put her finger on it. And the way his muscles twitch is not human. And when he's not wearing a costume, you can see it. You wouldn't notice it walking down the street, but if you're, like, in a room talking to him, you're like, something fucking weird about you guys.

18:01
Josue
Yeah, it's funny. It's a little close to this book right here.

18:05
Case
Yes, well, and. Yeah, exactly. That's the point. Like, they work with that similar kind of idea here, and they don't cross into the, like, he's so alien that we can't understand him vibe because I think, like, that's. That's too far for Superman. Like, you can do that for an XP of Superman for a Superman analog, but you can't do that for. For your main character. It's just not going to work.

18:28
Keith
Yeah. So, that's really cool. I'm gonna have to actually check that out. That's not really interesting. But, yeah, it's. It's interesting because it's like. Yeah, Superman has always been very human like. And we. Like you said, we've seen analogs that are different. Specifically, we can talk about Martian Manhunter who can hide his appearance but doesn't naturally look like us, obviously. But, yeah, this one, it was interesting because he does. They do a really good job even though he does look pretty human of really emphasizing how, I guess the way you put it is the world's not built for him. You know what I mean? Like, it's the world. The entire world, not just the people. The entire world is fragile. And they focus on in several different ways. And I think that's a really cool way of.

19:10
Keith
Even though he does look very similar to us to emphasizing the otherness of Superman. So.

19:15
Case
Yeah, so, you know, we start to. We established pretty early on that Clark is exceptional. He, like, our opening scene of him is him moving to Metropolis and he crushes it as a football player. Is that it?

19:27
Jmike
Yeah.

19:28
Case
Metropolis Community College. Or I couldn't. Or Metropolis University.

19:32
Keith
No, no, that's. That's.

19:33
Case
That's for the pros. That's for the pros.

19:35
Keith
Yeah, because there's a contract involved. You can't pay college students. Well, you can.

19:41
Case
Well, yeah. But then he applies for all these different jobs. Like, he solves an equation for something.

19:49
Keith
About salt harvesting electricity from salt water.

19:51
Case
Yeah. It's like, how long have they been working on it? And he, like, jots out, like, an equation, take it in there and then, like, rush out. Like, can we. Can we offer you a job? He just, like, they just show him going around and he's like, this is where were, like, oh, yeah, no, he's a superman. Like, he's good at literally everything. Better than anyone could ever be. And I do always enjoy that take on Superman. I don't like dumb jock Superman. And I was a little worried opening with the football scene. That was how were gonna go. Like, oh, he's gonna become a football player. And he's gonna, like, be a celebrity in some regard or whatever.

20:28
Case
And I'm so glad that he basically was like, I'm gonna just put out some feelers and see what jobs want me and see if I can get a vibe for if they like me. And fortunately, he decides not to go with any of the blood sucking parasite organization he wants.

20:43
Keith
He wants the girl that's playing hard to get. He doesn't want the ones that badly want him. He wants the one that doesn't want him. He's like, wait a minute. What's wrong with you? Why don't you like me? No, I'm going for you.

20:52
Case
Yeah, this is a superman who must chase. He cannot be perceived. That's made it weird.

21:00
Keith
Yeah, no, I honestly, that was one of the first things that hooked me with the book. When I first read it was, I was like, yeah, if I had these powers, I would probably try to be as star football player, too. And if I knew that, I'd probably try to make a bunch of money. And then I was like, anyone on such a understandable path, I guess, would be the word I'd use. And I was like, yeah, I would. I wouldn't understand him doing that. And then I understand where he got to. It was a good way to address something that a lot of people would honestly do and also tell it in a logical way that everybody would understand. Say, yes. I might end up at this conclusion as well. So I really liked that, actually.

21:33
Keith
And, like, I have a soft spot for journalists. So the daily Planet thing just, I was like, yeah, go there. Go there. Like that. That's always seemed worthwhile to me. But, yeah, he throws away the.

21:45
Case
Job application at first, and you're like, oh, is that also not going to be the status quo? Because you have no idea when you're looking at this series, like, how is, like, how is this all going to play out? And it turns out it plays out way more closely than I expected to. The usual Superman fair. But, yeah, it really is just like the movie that I want.

22:03
Jmike
Yeah, he said it. And now I'm, like, thinking, I'm like, holy crap, I wish we could have gotten this movie.

22:11
Josue
Or at the very least, like, with the similarities being played out. Like, sans is odd here, how the trilogy could have. Could have played out instead.

22:19
Keith
Yeah, yeah. Plus it's told in a linear style, so that's fun.

22:25
Josue
Yes.

22:27
Keith
That's my last take on Snyder.

22:30
Jmike
Never.

22:33
Keith
But, yeah, I really enjoy it. Like I said, the big thing to me was the interaction, specifically with Jimmy and Lois. I thought especially the resolution at the end with them. And also there's some new characters, and I love her. I don't know what to say.

22:49
Josue
I'm a sucker.

22:52
Case
Up till volume two, though, right?

22:53
Josue
Oh, at the end of.

22:55
Jmike
I thought she shows up. I thought she shows in one.

22:57
Keith
Yeah.

22:58
Josue
At the end when he gets the apartment.

22:59
Jmike
Yeah.

23:00
Keith
Yeah. I thought maybe not. Maybe not.

23:03
Josue
Oh, maybe not. When does he get the apartment.

23:06
Case
I thought he gets the apartment at the start of volume one, but he.

23:11
Keith
Doesn'T need her until volume two. You're right. You're right. My bad.

23:13
Case
Pardon me. Yeah, well, yeah, and, like, that might be a good segue, because volume one, I think, is a really good, like, honestly, this is kind of the Superman book that I have often opined for. Like, the listeners of the show will be familiar with my whole weird ramble of back in the seventies or maybe late or maybe early eighties, there was a Batman story where the phantom stranger took him to another world and he stopped Bruce Wayne's parents from getting murdered. And I always thought, hey, this was right before crisis.

23:44
Case
Wouldn't it have been cool if when crisis happened, they just let that multiverse still exist and you just shift focus to a new multi or to a new earth and just, like, tell your story about, like, this new Earth's Superman and this new Earth's Batman, because that Bruce Wayne was inspired by the thing that saved his parents to train and try to make sure that no one else would ever, like, hurt any people again. And I was like, that's so cool. What if instead of one continuity, we just were like, let's move, focus, and just follow? And I think that's kind of the idea here, right? Because every time they do crisis, every time they do new 52, all these things, they're like, let's throw out some stuff, but all the good selling titles, we're not going touch.

24:25
Case
And so continuity is just a nightmare every time. Because you're like, wait, Batman's no different. Any time.

24:34
Keith
The Green Lantern Corps was entirely intact.

24:37
Case
Yeah. Somehow. Somehow after Crisis on infinite earths, where prior to crisis on infinite earths, Oa only existed one world and they were responsible for the multiverse. And they were like, no, they created entropy. Yeah, right.

24:50
Keith
Yeah. No, no. Like, the fact that they. When I thought it was funny when they did the new 52, I don't want to get off on a tangent, but I have to say this.

24:57
Case
That's fine. This is, that is what we do on the show.

24:59
Keith
Come on.

24:59
Josue
Now.

25:00
Keith
When they did the new 52, I think they were like, okay, we're going to do the new 52 to retcon these things out. And they never asked the questions. I don't think they, because Marvel does these big summits. Now, whenever they're doing a big story where all the writers get together and they, like, spend days hammering everything out, and I don't think they ever sat down and said, wait, wait. If this is this, then. Wait, are you telling me that the war of the lanterns still happened and the black lantern thing still happened and all? Wait, but those people. Those people don't even exist anymore, and they never thought about that. And then they got into the new 52. They're like, oh, no. And then that's when rebirth happened, because they're like, they hit the crisis button again.

25:40
Keith
Dan Didio with the crisis button on his desk. And so. Yeah, but, yeah, not to go off.

25:44
Josue
On a tangent, but so convergence happened first, and then they lost me, and then rebirth happened.

25:49
Keith
But to tie it back to this, one thing I actually really like about this series is the fact there's no hint, there's no tease, there's nothing that there's anything but Superman in this world.

25:59
Josue
Yes.

26:00
Keith
There's no, like, mysterious island in the Atlantic populated by women on a news report or I, you know, masked vigilante in Gotham or nothing. It's just Superman.

26:09
Case
And, like, Batman's such an easy one to, like, put a hint in there. You just say that freaking Gotham, and just move on. Like, and it doesn't even need to change the stakes because Batman's such a smaller figure in terms of, like, the power hierarchy of the world. You know, if there was, like, we've detected weird. Green. Green radiate, like, green light radiating from a spot at, like. Like, somewhere out in the cosmos, like, oh, that's really weird. Our satellites are picking it up over there too. I wonder what that could be. You know?

26:35
Keith
No one's gonna be like, why isn't Batman handling this?

26:38
Case
Yeah, yeah. It's very much like, here. Here is a modern retelling of the Superman story with some actual introspection and some attempts at doing some science. It's all the kind of stuff that Straczynski likes to do. And I'm here for all of that, as long as there's no spider toad. Sorry, I don't mean to dig on Straczynski Spider man stuff. I was like, about, I got you, man.

27:02
Keith
No, yeah. Honestly, my Strzinski realm was Thor. I. That was my.

27:06
Case
That was a really good run. I really, like. I really am trying to be, like, very even handed on this one.

27:10
Keith
I got you. No, I'm not a Babylon five fan, I'll be honest with you. My roommate is, but I was a Star Trek kid, so it was always that versus deep space nine. And I love deep space nine, so, yeah.

27:21
Case
Oh, I love deep space nine more. But.

27:25
Keith
Of course you do. Duh. What am I talking about?

27:27
Case
I'm currently the line producer of a Star Trek fan.

27:31
Keith
Oh, yeah, duh. I know that.

27:32
Josue
So I completely agree. That's what I loved about this series where it was Superman was just a focal point. Superman, Clark Kent. Let's just explore this mythos. Because I started getting, I liked it so much. I started doing, like, my own research on, like, just the earth one series and, yeah, because I knew there's a Batman one and I'm not gonna get that one, but I'm gonna get the Wonder Woman one because I love that. Or, I mean, it's, what was it? Grant Morrison on that one with Yannick. With Yannick Briquette. And it's like. And who? I'm just so, I'm so excited that it's Grant Morrison touching in because I also saw that it was like exploring more, like, on the bondage history of Wonder Woman. It's like, who better than to talk about that than Grant Morrison?

28:11
Josue
Everybody else would just probably botched, like, that topic.

28:14
Case
Oh, yeah.

28:14
Josue
So I want to read that one as well. And I saw there was like a teen titans by Jeff Lemire is like, yo, earth one was pretty dope, but I feel like some of these, I've kind of, they just forgot about. They just kind of stopped doing these because black label and like, I guess, no, everything they want to work on now.

28:28
Case
Yeah. DC branding, I think, is oftentimes the biggest problem with any of these, like, types of stories.

28:34
Keith
DC always has, like, a branding and image issue. Like, I make a joke about it constantly, but the, this logo is the worst logo DC's ever done. I was quick story about that. I think it was man of Steel. It might have been Batman versus Superman, but me and my producer, Liz, my roommate, went to the movie and we, her husband was like, really wanting to like it, and were ready to just trash it. And were like, no, let's not be mean. He wants to enjoy this. We're like, we're going to take it seriously. And the very first thing they show that logo. And she had told me like a week before, it looks like someone opening a condom. And I was like, so the logo popped up. Me her just started laughing uncontrollably the entire time.

29:16
Keith
And he's like, this is going to be the worst movie experience of my life. So I always think of that when I see that logo. I'm like, it looks like a condom. Like.

29:24
Case
It really does. I mean, this is an audio medium, but for anyone listening, this is the I think the current logo for DC.

29:31
Keith
I think they've. I think they went back.

29:33
Case
Okay.

29:34
Keith
But it's. It was like the. The 2010s era. Yeah.

29:38
Case
The rapper style one.

29:39
Keith
It's like a c with the being peeled off. It's. Yeah, yeah.

29:42
Case
I mean a condom one. If you say that. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Now I won't be able to unsee that. Thank you. Let me crack open this Wonder woman bondage issue. Anyway, so let's move on to volume two because volume one, I think, is actually really good. But it is also a very straightforward. Like, aliens come to Earth and Superman reveals himself. And, like, there's some really cool moments leading up to it. I like the costume a lot in it. I really like the yellow line around the s symbol. I think that's like a really cool detail to make it look more like fabric. Recently online, I saw. I think it was Eric Larsen talking about, like, hey, when you picture the Superman s, do you actually picture the black line or is that just a drawing convenience? Like, it.

30:33
Case
Is it. Is it just red and yellow or does it actually have, like, a line around it and it's like, oh, yeah. I guess it is, like, weird to think about on, like, in person. Like, would it have the black line? And I guess, no. And here they do a really good job of having that extra layer of that yellow border around it, I think really sets it apart from the chest a lot better.

30:56
Keith
Yeah, I agree. Also, they make the point. I think it was in the first issue or first volume that Martha made the outfit for him. Was it out of the blanket he was wrapped in? Yeah. She had to take it apart thread by thread to feed it into the machine because it was so tough and stuff. I thought that was really cool. I really liked that idea.

31:15
Case
Yeah. It was a good way of explaining what was always, not always, but has been from the fifties George Reeve show and a lot of the versions Martha has made, it oftentimes from the blankets that he came in. But to actually stop and explain. Okay.

31:28
Keith
Yeah.

31:28
Case
So she had to completely unsew it, to reconfigure it and so forth because it was so indestructible. And that sets up plot points at the end of the volume where Tyrell's people, I guess because they're slightly further from the sun, we're less dependent on the sun and thus we're almost invulnerable under it. And. But Clark's ship is completely invulnerable and is able to, like, just puncture. Right. Through all their shit, like a speeding bullet.

31:51
Keith
I also liked really quick to. Before we jump onto volume two, I do want to say I like that the first bad guy was not Zod. Yes.

31:58
Case
Although thematically, he was.

32:00
Josue
Yes.

32:01
Case
You know, like that. You know, the warrior. Like a war character from your home galaxy or home solar. Home solar system. Because I don't think they establish if it's a different galaxy or not. And galaxies are big guys.

32:15
Josue
Yes, they are.

32:17
Keith
I just think that one criticism I have with DC, even today, and even in the movies I like, is that they jump straight to the main villain.

32:24
Case
Yeah.

32:24
Keith
And I really like that this didn't. Because I know Luther obviously, is the main villain of super, but Saad is up there, you know what I mean? And so build to it. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's. I think that's better, which we'll talk about in a bit.

32:37
Josue
But.

32:37
Case
Yeah, yeah. I mean, like. Like I said, like, thematically, he occupies the same role. I mean, right down to, like, the. The broadcast kind of screen. But he had a very different personality. He was actually, like, kind of, like, snarky. Yeah, I enjoyed that there. When he first showed up, I was like, wait, is he a Czarnian? Because, like, they. They've got that white with, like, black trim kind of thing going on, and he's got the personality that would fit Lobo. Like, I realize all the other Czarnians were, like, really good people and nice and whatnot, and this is like, Lobo if he was raised as a military brat.

33:08
Keith
Yeah, no, I totally had the same thought. I was like, yeah. Is this supposed to be this version of Lobo's, like, people and, like, because I know there's been, like, Lobo Superman struggles in the past. I'm like, that would kind of make sense, but obviously not as over the top, so.

33:22
Case
No, it's funny how, like, they constantly are, like, putting other worlds in the same solar system as Krypton in the animated series. I forget what they called. I think they called them the planet Argo, instead of it being Argo City for Supergirl. And then Daxim, they moved into it for the Supergirl series. And Daxum's always been related to Krypton, but normally one of them is the colony of the other somewhere, as opposed to, like, two separate planets that just happen to evolve to look about the same. And now this. It's just another world where it's like, yeah, also red sun. Also same. Same Z's, guys. But let's move on to volume two, because volume two is where we get Lisa, who is a really cool character but also has some of the straczynskiisms that I was like, Just cuz. So talk about that. We.

34:21
Case
We get parasite, which is like, yeah, all right. He's always a good villain because, like, yeah, parasite's always a good early villain for Superman because, like, he's obviously deadly. And particularly he scales to whatever he's fighting.

34:33
Keith
Yeah, it's a villain Clark has to use his brain against, not his fist.

34:36
Jmike
Yes.

34:37
Keith
That's always useful. So.

34:39
Josue
He's so gross. I love how gross he is. Like, those radiated pus looking teeth. I was like, I love it.

34:45
Case
Yeah, well, and then once he got even bigger and he started having, like, the. The smaller teeth, like, coming out of his mouth, the more. The more classic, like, sucker face. And then inside it was like, the weird, like, goo bag teeth.

34:58
Keith
Yeah. I obviously fell in love with her at first sight, so.

35:02
Case
Yeah, all right. Yeah.

35:05
Jmike
So, Lisa, so quick thing, when I first saw her, I swore up and down that was Lois in the wig trying to get dirt on Clark.

35:14
Josue
I think they specifically are like, it was an accident. They looked so similar.

35:18
Keith
Exactly.

35:18
Josue
That Lois had to have the mole under her eye just a different shape.

35:22
Jmike
She just shows up out of nowhere, and she, like, starts, like, talking to Clark, and I'm like, well, lois, like, three frames ago was like, there's something up with this guy. I'm gonna figure it out. I'm like, that is Lois. You can't. No, it's not Lois. It's somebody completely different. Oh, okay.

35:36
Josue
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And her initials are also ll. Lisa Lasalle.

35:41
Case
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, she's a redhead. Like, she's got, like, the ombre going on, but, like, I assumed it was, like, their Lana lange character. Cause, like, she's mostly a redhead. And often when faces look the same for artists, like, comic book artists, like, have a habit of having samesies faces for a lot of their characters.

35:57
Keith
No, no, I'm just imagining Lois in a bathroom putting temporary tattoos on as part of her costume.

36:02
Jmike
Yes.

36:02
Case
Yeah. Like, the star tattoos on her.

36:04
Keith
You'll fall for this. Certainly. Like, I just love that in my head now.

36:08
Case
Yeah, well, especially because in this volume, Lois is researching Clark Kent. Like, that's one of the big subplots of this all where she's doing the digging. And we actually find out a lot about Clark because she is interviewing his teachers and stuff to be like, who is this guy who had straight c's on purpose?

36:28
Keith
Right? Like, he was the honor student and then suddenly C's across the board. Yeah, she's like, that's deliberate. It has to be. Which I thought, yeah, it's a good way to introduce his background to us via her, which I thought was really good. So.

36:41
Case
Yeah, but we keep, like, alluding to this Lisa character. So she's his roommate, who here's. I like a lot of what's going on with it. She seems very thirsty at first. And like, this Clark actually, like, he's a handsome guy, but he's not. He is not the normal Clark Kent. Like, he's actually kind of scrawny. Like, he's nothing. He's not particularly tall. He might be 6ft, which is like, yeah, sure, tall, but not huge. And I say might be. I don't know if they give a height, but a lot of people are taller than him in the series. And then he's not particularly built. He's in great shape. When he's wearing tights, he looks great. But it's like how a ballet dancer, if he's wearing baggy clothes, you don't really notice.

37:25
Case
And this girl is just immediately into him in a way that, like, I get it. If you're like a six foot five man of just raw muscle, like the animated series Clark Kent, for example, you're like, yeah, everyone sees that I'm into that sexy daddy Superman.

37:42
Keith
Yeah, I listened to that episode.

37:49
Case
And I'm not surprised that she's attracted to him again. It's just, she's like, let me come over. Let's go see the Rocky horror picture show. Let's do all these things. A guy I've just met just now.

37:59
Josue
That'S literally where she won me over. It's like, is that Rocky horror, like, won me over?

38:04
Case
I remember when I first moved to New York and found out that was like, a thing and I was like, yeah.

38:10
Keith
See, I more saw her as an extreme extrovert adopting an introvert, which is happens, you know, so. But yeah, she was definitely thirsty. I'm not gonna.

38:21
Case
She also, like, the first time he's like, he's coming home and she, like, brings him in to have dinner, like, immediately and hops into, like, lingerie. Like, that was the thing. Again, she's very thirsty. Very thirsty. Like, again, all for her being into him makes total sense.

38:36
Keith
I had to remind myself, this is the guy that gave us sense. Eight. And I'm like, yeah, this is okay, I guess.

38:42
Case
But I did find it really interesting how they kind of relate with each other. And, like, the revelation, I mean, that she's a prostitute. Like, I thought that was actually really cool. And to tackle that element of it all, we get a lot of empathy from this superman for people who are oftentimes marginalized either for career or personal decisions that honestly don't have any impact on the world outside. And, like, it's a lot, like, it's really nice that this superman doesn't moralize unnecessarily.

39:11
Keith
There's a bit in the third volume about them that I think speaks well into what you're saying. I don't know if you got to this part where he's talking to Ma kent. And I think it was Malkin. And she said, we're talking about something. Did you find, like, he basically says, I found out something about her. And then Malkin said, did it make you thinking less of her? And he goes, not at all. And I was like, that's. That was the key moment to this relationship to me.

39:34
Jmike
Yeah, because she was like, he's like, yeah. Because he was like, well, she's got a couple of issues. And she's like, well, she has issues. You have like a categorized, like, encyclopedia. Yeah, yeah, so you shouldn't be talking at all. Clerk.

39:46
Keith
Yeah.

39:46
Jmike
He's like, yeah, if she has issues.

39:50
Case
You have a veritable DC infinite universe.

39:54
Keith
But yeah, I love her, obviously.

39:55
Josue
I mean, and I like that even, like, still, like, when that part gets revealed and you think back throughout the whole volume and it's like, yeah, obviously she was, like, thirsty if she was like, from the lingerie. Which again, funny. No, I love that she puts on the lingerie is like, oh, shit's gonna get spicy. How does Clark diffuse the situation till the saddest cat story of all time?

40:17
Case
I want to talk about that cat story. Oh, my God. So that is my favorite thing in this entire book.

40:22
Josue
Okay.

40:24
Case
It's super sad, but I hardcore relate to that experience. Like, I have had many pets. I miss them all. We have not gotten a new one since the pandemic. And it, like, I yearn for another pet. Cause I just, like, love that animal companionship and like, oh, my God, I so relate to that. Like, my dog is cremated and I, like, look at where we have her every time I, like, come upstairs because it's right when I walk up and like, I was like, I just get that moment so spectacularly.

40:54
Josue
Yeah, so little quick bit. I recently had one of my social medias just go away. Not my fault. And one of the big things was because all my dog pictures were there. So reading this today was like, fuck. I just felt like losing all my dog pictures all over again. But, yeah, I really liked that cat story. But it was just so funny how he's like, how he diffused that situation. But what I wanted to get to was that you think back on her and it's like, yeah, she was doing all these plays, but she was always waiting for him to make the next move. She was never, like, over eager, just on him. It was just like waiting to see what Clark would do to see if, because she knew he was like a nice guy or had that sense.

41:29
Josue
But obviously Clark was just going to go do some. Go be Superman, right?

41:32
Case
She goes 90, and instead of going ten, he's like, I have to go, newspaper thing.

41:39
Josue
And she respects it, which is cool.

41:40
Jmike
Yeah, well, the cat story, the whole cat story thing happens. And, like, right after he finishes that, he's like, oh, and by that way, my dad died, like, later that year. She's like, tears, like, oh, my God.

41:51
Case
Oh. In terms of, like, brownie points right there. Like, he's just like, throwing them out there and you're like, oh, yeah, this is a sensitive human being.

41:58
Keith
One thing. This is a good time to bring it up. I think we've talked about a lot about J. Michael culture since. But Shane Davis's art in the first two volumes is great. And the thing I like most is the weightlessness at which Clark flies with his art. And so it's specifically with the cat story. There's this shot.

42:20
Josue
Yes.

42:20
Jmike
Oh, yeah.

42:21
Keith
Where he's flying to the moon. It's Peter Pan. Like, is the only way I can describe it. It's like he's soaring, you know, there's no power behind it. He's not, boom, breaking the sonic barrier or anything like that.

42:33
Josue
He's just flying, lets go of his gravity instead of just fly up. Even in the first book when he's doing his flyers and he's like, fuck, let me just take a break. And he just sees the earth from afar. He does the same thing. He just lets go of gravity. I like that too.

42:45
Case
Yeah. Or when he goes to talk to Jonathan's tombstone and he just goes and sits down in the air right there. Yeah. It reminded me of in the animated invincible. Once Omni man has sort of been revealed to be a less than awesome guy, he stops walking around. He starts just hovering and floating into every room he goes into, even when he's still trying to keep his shit together. And it's really that moment of, oh, yeah, you were just putting that on just to make us feel comfortable. You are completely unbound by three dimensional space.

43:18
Keith
But, yeah, just Shane Davis's art in general. But that specific, I was just like, I really like the way he draws him. The poses he has in midair just gives me such a, I guess a feeling of fancy is the word I would use. Like, it doesn't have all that aggression and strength that sometimes is like, you know, flying forward, fist to the camera kind of thing. It's. It's more like artistic looking. I like that.

43:40
Case
Yeah. It's kind of like anime vibe that, like, has sort of become infused into Superman stuff.

43:44
Keith
Yeah.

43:44
Case
You know, like, initially it was like he's leaping and then he kind of controls his flight and so forth. And there's like, yeah, there might be some energy when he takes off, but it was really like as Dragon Ball Z started becoming popular and stuff with the Matrix started bringing it over to western stuff where you start seeing Superman having those explosive moments. Man of Steel is where we really start seeing that. For Superman stuff, specifically. A while back, were looking at the animated series season two and it was like, oh, yeah, it's interesting that he doesn't have those explosive bits right there. It's much faster. He doesn't seem as floaty as he does in this. But it's just interesting how, like, how we perceive flight and, like, literally, like, defying gravity.

44:27
Case
And if it requires someone to be exploding outwards or if you're just saying no to going down. So Superman. So parasite shows up and when he does show up, it doesn't go well for Superman.

44:42
Jmike
I don't think. Even in, like, the comics version, tv shows, I think those fights never really work out good for him in the beginning.

44:48
Keith
Yeah.

44:48
Case
No, this one seems to be restricted to at least having to make physical contact, which is technically a weaker parasite than other ones we've seen.

44:55
Keith
Yeah, but specifically with Superman because he's obviously, he's draining things around him as he's walking around, like the cars and stuff. He's not touching each of them, but he does have to seem like he has touched Superman. So. Yeah, yeah.

45:06
Case
Well, there seemed to be like some kind of contact because there was like he touched a thing and, like, it looked like electricity was all flowing towards him. Even if it wasn't the thing that he was directly. It doesn't matter. I mean, it's just like he's the parasite. He sucks energy off of stuff. And at first he's like, just out there being like, I need more power. And it's like, oh, Metropolis. Oh, there's Superman. There's so much power there. And he just starts sucking traffic dry until Superman shows up. And that's when Superman gets his ass whooped.

45:31
Keith
One thing I really like about this, and it's for both the. Both the first volume and this volume is in the big climactic battles. Both times, Superman needs the assistance of humans to win.

45:43
Case
Yeah.

45:43
Keith
Like, and I think that goes back again to where we're talking about the admiration of humans, in this case, parasite sister. So I think that's really cool because, again, it's very easy to portray Superman as invincible, all powerful. And to see him needing humans to help, obviously, it's kind of cool. It's kind of like a humbling and, like, relatable, I guess, is what I would say, relatable way to do it. So I really like that. Specifically in volume one, the way Jimmy and Lois save him is just top notch for me. I love that.

46:12
Josue
Oh, yeah.

46:13
Keith
Yeah.

46:13
Josue
Even Jimmy, like, going through, like, the barrier, like, the forest, and be like, yeah, I can't do that shit.

46:17
Case
When he starts to stick his hand in and I'm like, oh, no, your. Your arm's gonna be gone, man. That's a red laser.

46:23
Keith
I know. It's like, I was kind of like, what did he think was gonna happen? I was so confused. But, yeah.

46:28
Case
Was his arm broken? I feel like something must have happened to him from that. But, I mean, he mentions that he's, like, really hurt. But, like. Like that you don't just stick your hand into an energy field that's like punching down Superman, even if it's revealed that part of the thing is just negating Superman's powers.

46:42
Keith
Right. Yeah. Also, because we're talking about Jimmy and we kind of briefly talked about him earlier and how much we love this Jimmy. The. Gotta get the shot. Jimmy is the best.

46:50
Jmike
Yeah.

46:52
Keith
Specifically, this shot with parasite where parasite's up in his face is like, click, click. I'm just like, yes. I love that.

46:58
Case
Well, I left in volume one when Tyrell's like, you're the only one not running. Why aren't you running? Like, are you the alien? Are you the one I'm looking for? It's like, no, I'm a photographer. What is. Hang on. I need to test this hypothesis. But Keith, he brought up the human element, and the end of volume two has the really big moment. It happens earlier, but then Superman's describing his experience of it. At the end. So when he gets drained by parasite and has to steal clothes and stumble home and Lisa takes care of him, and then she's like, thirsty, makes jokes about his dick.

47:34
Case
He describes the experience to Ma kent on the phone and he's talking about how drained of all of his power, seeing all the danger around him, the stuff that he normally doesn't have to think about but all of a sudden did and how just incredibly impressive it was just to imagine that us frail humans could even get up and walk out the door every day like that. Like, if he had to live with that anxiety of the world all the time, that it would be crippling for him and that is why he's so impressed with humanity. I thought, like, that's a really nice articulation of that point.

48:04
Keith
Yeah, I do. I agree. It's a perspective of it. And, like, I think it was in the first volume where he's like, oh, so that's what pain feels like. Like, yeah. And it's like, yeah. And then imagine that, like, yeah, that could happen at any time. You have no control over it.

48:19
Josue
Or it's even like in the beginning of the volume two when you first meet Lisa and she's just like, you just have your door open. And it's Superman. Obviously, he wouldn't care to lock it or close it. So you kind of get it in the beginning. But now it's like him just realizing.

48:32
Case
That Superman should learn to close his door.

48:36
Jmike
Also, we forgot to talk about the ship. The ship plays a key part in this too.

48:42
Case
Yeah. So the ship shows up in the first one and then it's a bigger part in part two.

48:46
Jmike
Yeah, well, it's different than how it usually is because usually they get them in the ship. They're like, oh, it's all the middle of the droid while they're driving. And they put them back in the truck and they take it back to the farmhouse. This one, it lands while they're hiking. And they're like, what is that? Like, oh, it's a baby. They go and like, martha's like, it's. The ship's about to blow up. We gotta get out of here. And then they start running away and all the helicopters and things fly in. And they've been working on the ship, like, the entire time in the background until the lady who I swore I was hoping so bad it was gonna be amanda Waller, but it's not.

49:21
Keith
I don't. I don't know, man. They made Waller White. I don't.

49:27
Jmike
Dang it. It's not her. But they have this whole, like, department they've been working on. Like they did an independence day. They were working on the ship. And then when the aliens show up, it starts lighting up again. But, yeah, like, he comes back in contact with the ship. Well, he first he comes in contact with, like, the piece of metal that his parents gave him that he's been had the entire time. And then, like, it. I'm not explaining it phases or burns or it locks on his consciousness and does something to him where he's able to see, like, flashbacks of his, of him being a baby.

49:58
Case
It, like, starts uploading information directly into his brain.

50:03
Jmike
And then the ship, like we mentioned earlier, ship helps him fight. What's his dude's name?

50:08
Case
Tyrell.

50:09
Jmike
Tyrell, Tyrell. And then it flies off to the. He flies off with it to the arctic and basically sets up like a mini lodge under the ice with like a mini fortress of solitude where it's just him and the ship they're talking, and the ship gives him. It creates the force field suit that he needs to fight parasite, too. Doesn't work very well, but he uses it.

50:32
Case
Yeah, they do some interesting stuff. We're trying to set up how kryptonian technology is so advanced that we actually don't normally see with kryptonian stuff. Like, usually it's just implied. Like, oh, yeah, it's really cool, guys. But they don't really go into details about how it's more sophisticated than just good robots.

50:47
Keith
Right?

50:48
Jmike
I like the super robots.

50:49
Case
I mean, I like the super robots, too. But what was really cool is like, oh, yeah, all the information is literally on every atom. Like, it's all been, like, inscribed. And if you have microsite, you can see it. Otherwise, humanity in volume one and two. Well, volume one, I should say, there is this bald scientist who they never identify, who's usually the person talking to. What's Sandra Lee? Lee is the last name, but I can't think of. And I kept thinking like, oh, is that Lex Luthor? This whole time? Because he's the one who gets this super powerful microscope to actually see on all the atoms. And it's like, yeah, it's a user manual.

51:21
Case
On every atom, there's all this information, but it's also kind of sort of a living ship, or at least it's like a grey goo kind of living ship where it takes energy to convert into matter and fix itself. So it was really badly damaged when it crash landed. And it's been healing over time, particularly when it is active. When this other alien ship comes in near Earth looking for someone, it's cool to set up that kind of difference, and that helps sell that. It's going to build the fortress of Sawsud in the background. Rather than having a green crystal, you have to throw in the water. And then it starts hollowing out this space and making it more sophisticated and developing things for him to use. But keeping that crystal motif that became really popular with Donner movie.

52:08
Keith
Yeah. And I really like the fact that it's the ship he's interacting with, not a hologram of Jordan.

52:14
Josue
Yeah.

52:15
Keith
So over the hologram of Jordan. So I really like, it's the ship, and the ship's a little sassy, which is fun too. Another J. Michael thing. So. Yeah.

52:24
Jmike
Is it a J. Michael thing? I don't know.

52:29
Keith
Damn it.

52:33
Jmike
Oh, that's never gonna get old.

52:36
Case
Yeah, but so the ship, like, creates this, like, carapace that he wears. And they point out an interesting detail, which is that being so locked off that the parasite can't absorb his power, it also means that he's not recharging himself. And so that if the parasite breaches it, he's able, like, and drains him dry enough, he's not going to have a lifeline to sort of, like, keep him alive and thus, like, he's, like, particularly in danger, which I'm like, okay, cool. But, yeah, but, like, once the parasite breaches it, he can start healing a little bit if he gets away at all. So, you know, we'll see how that goes. And it doesn't go well. Like, he gets some good shots in, but parasite starts breaking through, like, panel two, maybe three of them slightly.

53:14
Keith
It is kind of cool that it didn't work because, again, that's another storytelling trope you can fall into is fight bad guy, find bad guy's weakness, build the thing, defeat them, and it's like, no, it wasn't that easy. Like, that didn't work at all. So I really. I actually appreciated that didn't work so straightforward.

53:30
Case
So, yeah, it's not like in the animated series where he just has, like, Saran wrap over his body or the kryptonite suit. Yeah. The one that, like, gets torn or burned in every single appearance.

53:43
Keith
I think. I think the other thing, especially in volume two that it's important to acknowledge is the island of Borata. That was in revolution. I thought that was because that plays heavily into what happens in volume three because a lot of the paranoia of the earth is, what if this guy goes bad? You know, they've probably read incorruptible, so they know that this could be very bad or irredeemable. Irredeemable, yeah, both of them. So. But yeah, they, so, yeah, they're talking about that, which I think is another thing. Like, we dealt with that in bvs and other DC movies where it's like, what if Superman goes bad? But I think this is a lot better way of getting at it where he actually interfered in the politics of a country.

54:28
Keith
Like, and so I think that kind of sets up volume three really well and doesn't make us just look like frightened apes, you know, just being like, Superman bad burned. Like, you know, like, we're like, oh, he's kind of imposing his will. Maybe that's not good.

54:43
Case
So I like, but it was an interesting balance to strike there, though, because, like, so it starts at the beginning of the volume where he goes off and it was like, what, a tidal wave that was going to wipe out or, yes, you know, that was going to kill a bunch of people. And they're like, this is our sovereign territory. You're not allowed. And if you come any closer, we're going to start murdering our own civilians because you're flat out not allowed. So, like, let's be very clear that this is a fucked up nation, right? Of course they are 100% in the wrong. So the question isn't, is superman like, interfering with, like, good people or like, conflicted issues? It's definitely bad. Like, he's going in. It's real bad. And he, you know, it lingers with him throughout.

55:27
Case
And, like, ultimately at the end of the issue, like, he comes in, but he doesn't do it all by himself. Like, what he actually does is he goes in and he finds the civilian populations that are being, like, oppressed by this regime and basically frees them after, like, getting, like, shot at, like, crazy by, like, their military.

55:43
Josue
You just made them use all their ammo, basically.

55:46
Case
Yeah. And then, like, arms them and then allows them to kind of just like, do their thing. He basically empowers the people to, like, rise up against the dictatorial powers holding them down. And I think that's even more terrifying than if he had just come in and, like, overthrown a dictator and said, I'm in charge now. Because from a government standpoint, if all of the people that you're trying to oppress all of a sudden are empowered by a person that you can't put down, like, that's terrifying. If I'm some sort of fascist, I.

56:17
Keith
Like the passive way he did it. He literally. You don't see him throw a punch or attack anybody. He literally walks in. They attack him, realize they can't kill him. They run, and all he does is bust the prisoners out. That's it. He doesn't do anything offensive himself. And I like that. And that also kind of gave it a gray area where it's like, did he really do anything wrong? You know what I mean? Like, he literally is just giving the people the ability to do what they need to do themselves. So I thought that was really cool. But it does set up volume three pretty well. And then, yeah, that guy's just come back and deserve to be deposed anyways. Yeah.

56:50
Case
Yeah. That's the thing. Like, he definitely. Everything he did was technically right. The only question is if he overstepped and his overstepping wasn't super aggressive on that one. It's very much toeing this line of, like, I'm not really. I'm not doing anything, guys. I'm not. You're just shooting at me. I'm not. I'm not fighting back. Like, I'm just gonna walk through here.

57:08
Josue
And if there's a wall in the.

57:09
Case
Way, I'm just gonna do this.

57:14
Keith
I'm gonna swing my arms like this. It's your own fault.

57:19
Case
Yeah.

57:21
Josue
And then with everything, it's, like, almost, I guess, like, we're kind of close wrapping up this volume, having said all this. And, like, Superman doing everything. I kind of, like, where it closed off or. Yeah, he couldn't save everyone even though he knew about it. Like, there was one instance where it's, like, he saw it, but he was so busy with, like, the more important things and just, like. And ultimately, like, the weight of, like, this loss was, like, almost, like, greater than, like, had he just made bail out on the. All the other ones.

57:47
Case
It was really good neighbor who was obsessed with him, who was a heroin addict, and he knew it. Like, he just. But, you know, how much are you gonna, like, interfere with a person when, like, they've got problems, but it, like, the thing that's so dangerous is their way of coping with the other problems in their life.

58:02
Josue
Yeah.

58:03
Keith
Yeah.

58:06
Case
A superman that deals with addiction. That's not a story we see very often.

58:09
Josue
Right.

58:10
Keith
Yeah. There's a lot of street level stuff that's dealt with in this book that we don't normally see. It's usually a green arrow. Like, even. Not even Batman. It's usually, like, a green arrow level kind of thing. Your word is a junkie, you know, kind of. Right. So it's so.

58:25
Jmike
It's so refreshing to see stuff like this happen in the books because we're so used to like, all the interplanetary cosmic universal threats that Superman has to deal with. Well, like he started off with like inner gang and stuff like that.

58:37
Josue
Yeah. Or like. Or this is. This is such a, like a Gotham problem or a gothic scene. Like it would. Metropolis so clean. Like you're just. It's so. Yeah, it could happen anywhere.

58:47
Jmike
The city of the future.

58:49
Keith
Yeah.

58:49
Josue
And then like, reading this one, I guess, like, I feel like I could finally get the movie I would want. Like, ever since I first saw like the. The first headline years ago. But obviously it's never happened. It's never happened. And like, how we say, like, volume one is straight up man of Steel. I pretty much got my Matthew Vaughn movie out of volume two. I want a Matthew Vaughn man of Steel two. And all this, all the sexual touches with Lisa and all like, the story arc and like, the ending. Like, Matthew Wang would have done a great job with this movie, with the story.

59:15
Case
Maybe if it was like set in the sixties or something. So you could like it's Silver Age Superman and have it like, have like a real like sixties mod kind of look.

59:24
Josue
Oh, yeah.

59:26
Keith
Shaggy hair and stuff.

59:29
Case
I can't cut it until I go into the red sun.

59:32
Keith
I'm just imagining like a disco wing styled Superman. Oh, God, that'd be incredible.

59:41
Case
Well, that's. That's Mikhail Thomas, the. The star man of the seventies, who was like the disco star man.

59:47
Keith
But yeah, I mean, so that's pretty much it for the volume two. Oh yeah.

59:53
Jmike
Yeah.

59:54
Case
At the very end.

59:54
Keith
Yes.

59:55
Jmike
What's up?

59:55
Keith
Too?

59:55
Jmike
I was like, wait, because once again I saw. I saw the brown. I saw that. The blonde hair chicken. I was like, oh, it's. It's the, it's the army chicken. I was like, she's in a relationship with Lex. Wait, nope, there's two of them.

01:00:08
Case
Lex squared.

01:00:10
Keith
Lex squared. Yeah. I thought that was so cheesy, but I loved it.

01:00:14
Case
Yeah. I mean, speaking of someone who has a name that is not particularly gendered, I may have made out with people with my own name before. It's like awesome.

01:00:24
Keith
Hell yeah. Yeah.

01:00:25
Case
I think that's all cool.

01:00:29
Keith
I think that's cool because I mean, obviously, I think at this point they knew the next volume was going to be the last. And I mean, you got to wrap it up with the big ones, you know? Like, I said, you don't do it too early, but you got to wrap.

01:00:39
Josue
It up with the big ones.

01:00:40
Keith
And I thought it was a refreshing look at them, which we'll talk about as we talk about volume three.

01:00:43
Josue
You know, I feel like the Lex squared was, like, such a ultimate comics touch. Like, a little out there, a little cheesy, little corny, but it's just so on brand.

01:00:51
Case
Yeah. So why don't we move on to volume three? So now, as I mentioned, I only actually got halfway through this when we actually had to start the call. So apologies. I can only talk for so long about this part, but, hey, we're finally doing Zod, and hey, we're finally doing the Lex Luthors all in one.

01:01:07
Jmike
Lex Luthor's.

01:01:10
Case
All right, so here's my read on this. Having not finished it, by all means, spoil it for me, because it's my fault for over scheduling myself. My read is that the actual Lex Luthor in the scenario is the wife. It's Alexandra Louv. Yes. And that Lex Luthor is actually, like, because he doesn't seem to be that bad a guy. He's just good at math and just.

01:01:30
Keith
And just loves his really hot wife.

01:01:32
Jmike
Yeah.

01:01:34
Case
Again, Straczynski is, like, very much into being, like, let's have some, like, some sexy moments here. And I'm like, would they really talk that way? I don't know.

01:01:42
Keith
It should be noted, first of all, that volume three, the art does change.

01:01:46
Josue
Yes.

01:01:47
Keith
So it's Adrian safe with central hope doing the inks, so. But, yeah, it's different, but it's not jarring. It's not like a massive change of art. So it still felt like a single story.

01:01:58
Case
And, yeah, reading it back to back, I didn't even process it until I was looking at the actual, like, credits on it all. Not that it's not that so similar, but just that it's close enough that it, like, if you're not really looking for it didn't stand out to me.

01:02:11
Keith
Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you're needing to find somebody to wrap up an arc, you find. You try to find an artist with similar styles. So they did a really good job doing that, so. But, yeah, so, yeah, obviously, we deal with the fact that Zod shows up, and he's been made abundantly clear as completely different than Superman. So it sets that up pretty well. You get more Leeson stuff. So I really enjoyed volume three. Yeah. Case didn't finish it, so there's a lot that happens. So let's just say in the end. Superman needs to be saved by a human again.

01:02:42
Jmike
Yes, twice.

01:02:43
Keith
Yeah, so it just keeps happening. Which, again, I love that idea. I love the consistency in the story, too. That. That keeps happening. In this case, it's Lisa. So she ends up saving him, which was really interesting.

01:02:58
Jmike
Oh, she also. The reason she saves him, because she, One of the times that she's in there throwing out these thirst traps for Clark, she drops her earring in the sofa. And then, like, she gets the landlord to open it up. And she's like, oh, yeah, I got an interview. So I put my lucky earring on in this mirror with the closet open right behind me. Oh, what is that? Is that red and blue back there? What could that be? Oh, my God. It's.

01:03:22
Case
She's Superman. That's such a big leap right there. I mean, obviously it's necessary for the convenience of the plot, but, like, look, just looking in my own shot, I have a quilt behind me that is red and blue. I'm like, it's not that giant of a leap.

01:03:36
Jmike
Well, at least she walks into the closet and opens up the bag and she pulls out the costume and she's like, oh, my God.

01:03:45
Keith
My first thought would be like, this person really likes costume. I wouldn't immediately.

01:03:50
Josue
How are we not doing it right now with role playing?

01:03:53
Case
Yeah, well, I've seen that shit before too, where it's like, oh, that's a nice Superman shirt. I forget where I've seen that. But, like, recently I've seen that in comics, so.

01:04:01
Keith
But, yeah, more Lois and Jimmy, same thing. But, yeah, I really dig it. I like. Because this is where we start dealing with the world's World Security Council, I think is what they call them in DC, which is basically the undead. How they're dealing with the fact that, you know, again, Superman might be a bad guy. And Zod shows up. He's like, hey, I'll take care of your problem. We just gotta work together. Brings in the lexus and stuff, and we'll just kind of lay. I'll lay out the plot of what happens for case so we can all talk about it.

01:04:30
Jmike
How's that?

01:04:31
Case
Yeah, yeah, go for it.

01:04:32
Keith
Okay, cool. So basically, Lex. Well, you saw the part where Lois made the Superman signal, right? Yeah, yeah. Which is the bad signal puts for Superman. I love that. And so they use that to draw him in. And Lex shoots him with the little ray that takes away all of his powers. And then Zod starts just kicking the crap out of him and he runs away. Yeah. Just and so Lex actually ends up realizing he did the wrong thing and shows up and shoots Zode to save Superman. And that way, they're like uneven ground. They end up fighting, and Lex ends up getting killed by Zod. And then Alexandra, the other Lex, blames, of course, Clark for this, for killing her husband, even though he didn't.

01:05:23
Keith
And that's kind of like, what leads to what's going to, presumably, would be the traditional Lex versus Superman conflict. And.

01:05:30
Case
Yeah.

01:05:30
Keith
And then, of course, at one point, as I mentioned, Lisa did end up saving Clark by hitting Zod with a.

01:05:34
Case
Truck, which humans with trucks save people in the series a lot.

01:05:40
Keith
Yeah. But, it's really good. I think. Honestly, it's really good. But I think the highlight of it is, in the end, Clark ends up with Lisa.

01:05:48
Jmike
Yeah.

01:05:48
Josue
Yes.

01:05:49
Case
Okay.

01:05:49
Keith
Like, that. That's really interesting. And she meets his mom and stuff, and it's just like, it's really interesting. And I really like that. I was like, she felt like, oh, she's gonna die. Like, she's gonna die stupidly. It's gonna be bad. I'm not gonna like it. She did.

01:06:05
Case
Like, she's gonna be a sacrificial lamb. I was, like, a little worried.

01:06:08
Keith
I was like, where's the fridge?

01:06:11
Josue
They specifically put the lucky earrings on. And when she crashed, it's like, no, she's gonna live. I need it.

01:06:16
Jmike
I was like, yeah, she had death written all over.

01:06:20
Case
This is great. Like, I love Lois as a character, always. Like, I adore her. She's one of my favorite characters in comics. But, like, I really liked Lisa in this story, and I'm very happy for the story to be, like, to find out. Like, yes, guys, thank you.

01:06:34
Jmike
It was looking really hairy there for.

01:06:36
Josue
A while, but whereas, like, it doesn't have to be a rushed thing with Lois, either. Like, have him build his career at the Daily Planet. Have her notice him, that he can write at the. He can be a reporter and have that be, like, what interests, like. And not just be like, oh, because he's Superman. No, I like that. How he ended up with Lisa, too.

01:06:54
Jmike
Well, he actually confronts Lois about the whole spying thing, too. What's this about? And then she goes, oh, you know, sorry.

01:07:04
Josue
Not sorry.

01:07:04
Jmike
Yeah, whatever. I guess I was a little jealous. No need to go getting upset. I might have gone a little overboard with everything, but, you know, we can be friends. And he's like, cool, cool.

01:07:19
Keith
I like the part when they had that conversation. She was like, everything I did was legal. I'm like, you were hacking into stuff. I know you were. You said that.

01:07:27
Josue
Or also, like, all your. I'm sure some of her excuses on getting those interviews were. Might account as fraud.

01:07:33
Case
Yeah, like, I mean, she, like, for his was a guidance counselor or teacher, whatever, from school. She says that she's lowest lane from personnel and that she's doing background checks on new employees. So, like, though, you know, that's at the very least, like, presenting herself fraudulently, shall we say, so. So, yes, Josue. Fraud.

01:07:56
Josue
Yes. I knew it was gonna trickle down at some point. Or also, like, also the third villain that is in this book that also didn't have to be a rush thing that could have waited for the third. The third volume is kryptonite.

01:08:09
Jmike
Yeah.

01:08:10
Josue
Like, it didn't have to be a killing point in volume one or two. We could save it. And I like how it's presented with Zod being like, yeah, now I've just been hugging this fucking rock around and then cruise by a yellow sun. And it's like, then I got started fucking me over. So I know how to kill you now. And it's just like a whole motherload of kryptonite.

01:08:26
Keith
The other. The other big thing was that I don't know if you saw this part case where they revealed that Zod is the one that made the deal with Tyrell and his people in the first volume.

01:08:35
Case
Oh, no, I didn't get that far. Literally, the last panel I got to before we had to start was when he unveils the kryptonite on his ship and superman starts going down. And I'm guessing this is villain monologue would happen, like, one page later.

01:08:49
Keith
Yeah, shortly after that. But, yeah, he basically revealed he's the one that got Tyrell's people to do that because he. We get the whole flashback of him and Jor El and how Jor El's like, I'm a scientist and a good person, and he's like, war, everywhere war. And then he's, you know, kicked out of Krypton and then sees it blow up, and then he's like, good.

01:09:07
Josue
It plays out the same scene that Tyrell explains it, but through Zod's side, how, like, Tyrell kind of cuts off and like, oh, and then he came. It's pretty much like his side of that part. That side, yeah.

01:09:18
Jmike
It's also cool that they point out that Lois figures it out, too, because she figures out that Zod isn't a good guy really quickly.

01:09:26
Case
Yeah, well, that seemed pretty obvious where it's like, why did that bridge just fail? I mean, sure, it's America, and our infrastructure is terrible. Terrible, which also J. Michael Straczynski would talk about. I don't put that one past him. But, you know, bridge just fails, and all of a sudden, another kryptonian shows up.

01:09:47
Keith
Also, there's a Martha moment in this, too, that isn't awful. So it's yet another instance where they do it better than the DCEU. Or Zod finds Martha's address, and Clark's like, no, don't attack my mother. And it wasn't just because her name was Martha. There was a massive coincidence that she didn't get killed or something. So I thought that was funny, too, that also happened.

01:10:08
Case
Well, so that's actually closer to in actual man of steel. Like, Superman has to, like, go and, like, stop. Is it Zod who's, like, comes. Comes to the Kent farm, or is it the lady?

01:10:19
Josue
I think it was the other two.

01:10:19
Case
Yeah, yeah, either way. But there's, like. Because he's like, don't you dare touch my mom.

01:10:24
Josue
Yeah. Just talks it through.

01:10:25
Jmike
Yeah, he doesn't get the small, though. He just smacks him down right there in the street.

01:10:31
Keith
Well, yeah, after. After he takes out Zod, the other big cliffhanger whose we talked about kryptonite, is he went to dispose of the kryptonite, and it's gone mysteriously. So presumably, Lex squared has it also very much, I guess you'd say, spider man style. Lex is actually in a tube being healed by Alexandra, so very much like Harry Osborne, Mister Freeze. Yeah.

01:11:00
Jmike
What is the cryo tube thing.

01:11:01
Keith
Yeah, perfect.

01:11:03
Josue
See, this is where they. This is where they would actually do the whole dceu thing, the man of steel thing, and put the. They would put the kryptonite seer or DNA into that legs, and he'd be bizarro.

01:11:14
Keith
Yeah, there you go.

01:11:15
Case
Or the crypt night man.

01:11:17
Keith
Yes.

01:11:18
Josue
I was just like, the super smart Lex, just reverting to a bizarro.

01:11:22
Case
I do now wonder, like, so at the beginning of the issue, there's a spot where it's like. And people ask, like, why? People ask me why I love you. And they're like, people ask that. And she's like, I always respond. And then, like, it, like, goes, like, micro on the text. So you can't read what Alexander's, like, whispering to him. And I'm wondering if she's, like, whispering to the tube, like, you've got the best, like. And then.

01:11:45
Josue
It'S still only you, buddy, in there. Yeah. It was kind of open ended. Like, I kind of expected volume four with, I mean, he is kind of still writing again. He did it. He did a book for Awa upshot recently.

01:11:58
Keith
He, yeah, he retired from comics and came back because he had the eyesight problem. Funny story. So I was at San Diego Comic Con, and my buddy, who's a comic book artist, he's like, I don't know a lot about writers. I want to start doing some writing myself, taking some panels, and I'm like, okay, we're going to see J. Michael. We went there, sat down, and he announced his retirement from comics. And I'm like, what? He's like, my eyesight's failing and all this stuff. I'm like, what is happening? I just saw him announce his retirement completely unhead of time. So I was there for that. But he's, since come back, but I don't think he's done anything for the big two. I think he's just done personal stuff he wanted to do.

01:12:36
Case
Well, I mean, that's fair. I think that he has a lot of interesting stuff to say. And like I said, one of my favorite comics was rising stars. So him wanting to do his own properties, I'm like, I'm all for, yeah.

01:12:48
Keith
Plus, I mean, he's done television, he's done movies, he's done comics. He's done everything he's wanted to do.

01:12:53
Case
He created she rare.

01:12:56
Keith
He can basically do whatever he wants at this point. So, like, I have more power to him, you know?

01:13:01
Case
Yeah. When, when people announce their retire and I really respect their career, I don't get mad, because it's just like, yeah, fuck, yeah. You, you have earned whatever time you want.

01:13:08
Keith
Like, yeah, I, another funny story. Because. Just because I don't really get to tell this very often, but, so we saw that one, and then there was actually a writing workshop with J. Michael Zelenskyy later that day. So went to that one, too, and I got to see him shut this dude down. It was the funniest thing I've ever seen. This guy went up there, really pompous, talking about his personal projects. He's like, I've already been published. My first book, my second book's coming out soon. He's, like, going to this whole thing. It was basically a brag. It wasn't a question. But then he turned it into a question of, how should I, once I start receiving offer or, no, I've received offers for, like, theatrical or television adaptations and basically asked, what should I do about that?

01:13:45
Keith
And JMS is just sitting there nodding quietly, and then he goes, well, let me tell you how you already fucked up. And I was like, oh, my God. And he's like, you're never hotter than before. Your first book comes out, and the dude's like, you could see he's really annoyed that he's getting talked down to. And he's like, jms goes through all this different stuff. The guy goes, thank you. And then he walks out of the panel. He doesn't go back to his seat. He walks out of the room. One of the funniest things I always remember. Jms for that. But anyway. Sorry.

01:14:11
Case
No, no, it's, anyway, so I would say I really liked this. The 2.5 parts that I have read and what you have told me makes me very excited for how it's going to conclude. So, like, I, I was pleasantly surprised by this whole thing. I figured I'd, like, I'd probably enjoy it enough, but, like, you know, I wasn't sure if I was gonna really, like, live up to some of the other, like, sort of similar vein Superman stuff I've looked at before. And like, yeah, this is great. I really enjoyed it.

01:14:40
Josue
Yeah, it's not like, it's because I'm not wanting to sound like anti DC, but it's like I was looking for stuff to knock on it, but I couldn't really find anything, like, I thoroughly enjoyed, like, the whole series.

01:14:52
Keith
It's a really good first Superman story for non fans, too. That's. I like, again, our producer, Liz, I handed it to her. I'm like, read this. I bought her a copy of it and I'm like, read this. She's like, this is really good. I'm like, I know. And I think it speaks to the fact that, again, I always talk about how I prefer Cara and now John. I really like John Kent, but I think it's just the age issue. I think he's just like a full on grown adult man if you just age him down a little bit. I actually find him kind of interesting and fascinating. So I think that's one of the things I really liked about this, plus the whole groundedness. I've always leaned more towards grounded heroes than larger than life, you know? So, yeah, I really liked this.

01:15:30
Keith
I'm glad. Glad we did this one, to be honest.

01:15:33
Case
Yeah, I have a follow up question, actually, about that. So I've commented how I really like early Superman, where he's, like, getting his bearing. I love super boy, whichever Superboy we're talking about. But I really like the idea of either living up to the shadow or just knowing that you have this incredible power. Like, those stories are great. Smallville was great for, like, you know, obviously it went off the rails at lots of spots, but, like, Smallville was great in terms of premise. And, like, I love that. And, like, that whole concept is so cool. I also really, like, omit the word sexy from this daddy. Superman. Like, Superman and Lois, I'm really enjoying him as a father. Like, those elements there, I think are really relatable. I was really digging when it was before Jonathan got aged up, like, rapidly like that.

01:16:17
Case
Like, I like Jonathan, but, like, it was like, I really liked him as, like, a ten year old boy whose dad is Superman. And, like, that felt such, like, a relatable moment right there where, like, the torch has been passed to Superman as a dad from, instead of Jonathan or Jor El. Those parts there, does that work for you? Because, like, I think that's a different dynamic than just, like, I'm 30 and I'm Superman and I'm good at everything.

01:16:40
Keith
Yeah. So once. Once you. So when I say, like, adult Superman, I'm thinking of him as, like, the hero, but as a person, I love adult Clark. Adult Clark is great. Him as the father John was really good. I really enjoy that. I like him, especially in group settings, as an older character, specifically being kind of the voice of reason with the Justice League sometimes, you know, I really enjoy that. And then obviously, we look into the future, and we see stuff like kingdom come, where I'm like, this is fascinating, this older man, you know, and, like, stuff like that. I'm fine with that. I think it's just, like, just a general idea of an older, like, adult Superman is really bland to me. And that. And I know you and I have contributed to an argument online about, is Superman boring?

01:17:29
Keith
Like, where people don't understand, like, he's not boring. He's just Superman. If you're the archetypal superhero, then all superheroes are compared to you. You know what I mean? So, like, you're boring because you're not different than what people think is a superhero, but it's because you're the superhero. Like, like, how could you stand out from that without doing something ridiculous like, kill a bunch of people?

01:17:54
Case
So you create the genre.

01:17:56
Keith
Yeah. So he's kind of a default, you know? And then again, like I said, one of the big things to me is, again, I always trend towards street level heroes. I'm a big, like, moon Knight, iron Fist, daredevil kind of person, love Green arrow. Flash, which, even though he's incredibly powerful, is really kind of street level for the most part with his rogues, so.

01:18:16
Case
But there's a lot of time travel involved.

01:18:19
Keith
Yeah. Yeah, that's the weird thing. It's like I stop a diamond heist, but then I have to go back in time to save reality. It's like, I love that dichotomy about Flash. And I maintain flash rogues are the best rogues in the world. Don't get me started. So with grown Superman, I think it's just, it's going to depend on the creator. And when it, when certain creators get their hands on him, that's what I'm like, ooh, like, Oh, my gosh. I know. You'll know the name of this. And it dropped. What's the one Alan Moore did? The last Superman story.

01:18:47
Case
Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?

01:18:48
Keith
Yes. I actually really enjoyed that. And I actually really liked the background behind that, too, which I love the story he tells where he's talking to the editor and I can't ever think about doing this. And he grabbed him by the throat and said, I will kill you if you let anyone else do this besides me. Like, I don't always agree with that one more, but that was hilarious. So, yeah, I think it just depends on the creator. And I honestly think adult Superman works a lot better in a group situation is what I would say. I don't, I'm not really digging a solo Superman book, but Superboy, I tend to like a lot of Superboy books and supergirls. I mean, Cara's my girl, so. Yeah, I hope that answered the question. It was a little bit rambling.

01:19:29
Case
No, I think so because I generally agree in that established Superman has done his arc, you know, like, he's figured out how to do the best he can. And you can tell interesting stories where he's a player in that. But I often, like, find myself being more interested in, like, what Lois or Jimmy or characters around him are doing with him in the background. But then once you move into him being a dad, I think that's such a, like, it's a new arc has started, you know, so oftentimes, I think, like, the monthlies for Superman, not so much right now because he's trapped as a gladiator on an alien world at the moment.

01:20:02
Case
But the monthlies for Superman oftentimes feel like the space in between the main stories that you would tell, like the stuff in between man of Steel and Batman versus Superman or whatever you want to say about it just to keep it on the DCEU side.

01:20:17
Keith
Yeah, no, I got you.

01:20:19
Case
Yeah.

01:20:19
Keith
And I think, I honestly, I think the biggest impact Superman has is as an icon in the DC Universe. So I don't know how much of future state you read. Did you read the house of L?

01:20:31
Case
Yeah. I love that.

01:20:32
Keith
That was one of my favorite books in all of future state, and it blew me away. I was like, this is cool how he, like, all this came from him, you know? And I thought that was so cool. I liked the idea of him being the icon. Everything started here, even though technically Wonder Woman was first according the new timeline. But, you know, he's the hero everybody thinks of, and I like him more as a legacy than an actual person.

01:20:53
Case
Yeah. The further I get into Superman, like, into Superman fandom, and, like, the more I, like, really, like, think about it critically as part of this show, I find myself thinking about how, like, him as that first superhero is so important to the character, like you said.

01:21:07
Keith
I mean, Superman analogs, there's a billion of them, because he is the. He's the prototype. You know, he's. He's the, he's the diecast. You know what I mean? Like, now we. We take him, but this, but this, but this. So, he's the default. So. Yeah.

01:21:23
Case
Well, I feel like we've said what we need to say about this. So any closing thoughts? J Mike, I love Lisa.

01:21:30
Jmike
That is all. No, this. This was a fun ride. My favorite stories about Superman, or when he. A lot of them are when he's first starting out and he has to earn his lumps in order to become the hero later on. And this is one of those. This is, well, three of those stories.

01:21:47
Josue
Yeah.

01:21:47
Jmike
And, and, yeah, this is really good. I'm gonna have to add this to my ever growing, books I have behind me. My shazam book just came in.

01:21:58
Josue
But, dude, you're preaching the choir. All of these are unread.

01:22:02
Case
Yeah.

01:22:05
Jmike
But, yeah, this is a great ride. And at least it's just a fun character, especially when she went on her, like, what do you know? If somebody has a secret and they want to tell that person the secret?

01:22:18
Josue
Are you trying to come out of the closet? It's like. No, but, yes.

01:22:24
Keith
It'S definitely a closet involved.

01:22:26
Jmike
Yeah. Lisa and Martha, one of my favorite characters in these books.

01:22:29
Josue
Yeah.

01:22:29
Jmike
And Jonathan having his flashbacks with Jonathan as he's growing up and his dad's, like, laying the wisdom and the foundation of who Clark is going to be. Also, the. He has, like, the sex talk with Clark, and Clark's, like, being, like, an actor and he's like, no, dad, don't.

01:22:45
Case
Do it to me. Oh, we didn't even talk about that.

01:22:47
Josue
This is a little weirder. This is a little weirder than normal.

01:22:51
Case
Yeah, we talked about that before we started recording, but we actually didn't talk about that in. So they dropped a reference to the man of Steel, woman of tissue paper that was written in, what, like the nineties or whatever. Like that. I was like, yes, of course we all want to talk about that thing. You can't really talk about it in a Superman comic. And I like that Clark is just uncomfortable, or just as uncomfortable as all of us.

01:23:10
Keith
Yeah. That was actually one of my favorite conversations between him and his father ever. I was like, that's incredible. It reminded me of. I don't know if anyone else watched the OC.

01:23:19
Case
Yeah, yeah.

01:23:20
Keith
But there was the part where Sandy tries to talk to Seth and give him the talk, and it's the most awkward moment of television ever. And I got that same cringe. I was like, oh, this is so bad. Like, and I loved it. And just. Yeah, it's so awkward.

01:23:32
Jmike
Well, son.

01:23:35
Keith
Dad, please, no, don't do this.

01:23:39
Jmike
Oh, yeah, this was a fun ride. I can't wait to add this to the collection of books I have now and add this to the thing.

01:23:46
Case
All right, Jose, closing thoughts with.

01:23:49
Josue
Honestly, I enjoyed the ride as well with jms kind of working at a kind of slower pace, but with him back, I would actually like a second trilogy of his earth one. But at the same time, because he was. He was also, I guess, before he announced his retirement, he was also slated for a flash Earth one series as well, but then obviously took a break, so that would be pretty fucking cool, too. But this. This series was very good. And again, like, I'm not a huge Superman, like, into, like, that lore, but when I. When I get my good gems, man, do I really just sink my teeth into them?

01:24:20
Case
Yeah, I think that's the crazy thing. Like, there's. There has been an ongoing Superman book or multiple ongoing Superman books since 1938. And so there's so much stuff out there that it is easy to forget just how many there. How many great gyms are out there, because, like, oftentimes you're just like, you gotta get a comic out. And, like, sometimes it's fine, and sometimes it's good. But, like, if they weren't scrambling to get the next issue out, they may have been able to refine it a bit more. And this is one where, like, clearly, like, jms could, like, take his time and, like, really put out a solid work.

01:24:54
Josue
Yeah, they're like, yeah, exactly. I like how he would get these certain stories to pick out from and then just, like, redo himself or modernize them or hash them out in his own way. But, like, yeah, like, I'm curious to see what else he would touch on, especially now with, like, some modern takes, too.

01:25:07
Case
Keith, closing thoughts.

01:25:09
Keith
I'm just glad to be able to talk about this book with you guys. Cause like I said, it was one of my favorite DC books for a while. This is really good. And I reread it several times back in the day. The first volume, that is just, I really liked it. Again, reading the second two volumes with you guys now, too, because, again, I hadn't really read those until recently, so I thought that was really great. And just, you know, again, going back to the Superman is boring thing, there's so much out there. Like, just give it a chance. There's a Superman story for everybody. I guess what I'll say shout out to one of my weird loves is Superman Gen 13. That crossover was amazing, and it really addresses the problem a lot of people have. Superman. Superman's boring. Yeah, that's the point.

01:25:56
Keith
Like, that's literally what the series is. Yeah, that's the point. He's supposed to be there for you. He's not. It's exciting if he just doesn't show up sometimes. Yeah, that's exciting. Is that what you want? You know, like, so. I really like that. But no, this just talking about with you guys, it's a lot of fun. I always like talking comics with people who have a passion for them, so. And Jamaica Straczynski, Shane Davis with the amazing art. And like you said, that iconic first cover. I mean, that's just something that'll hook anybody instantly.

01:26:22
Case
So awesome. Yeah. I'm so glad to have finally had a reason to read this. Like, you know, there's so much media always, like, that's kind of why I do these podcasts, so that it's like an excuse to be like, oh, yeah, I can actually, like, sit down and rewatch a movie, or I can actually force myself to read a story that I either haven't or haven't in a while. And, like, I'm really glad that this was an opportunity to read a story that I thought was really cool and did a really good job of doing a 21st century update for the Superman mythos. So, yeah, thank you guys for coming on. Like, give your plugs. Who are you? Why are you here?

01:26:59
Keith
So I'll go first. So I am the host of a comic book show with my buddy Josue called we have issues. So you can find it at whipodcast on Twitter. You can find me at Whipodcast Keith, and you can find our producer Liz at Whipodcast, Liz. So you can find us on there on Twitter. We're on every major, you know, platform you normally listen to your podcasts on. And we go up every Saturday morning, usually right in the middle of the night because I stay up and just do it after midnight. But basically what we do is we review new comics every single week and we, as always, make the joke. We seemingly review every comic that comes out that week, excluding a couple things. We don't, we don't really deal with problematic people.

01:27:46
Keith
We don't deal with publishers who've embraced nfts a little too much. Yeah, but like, yeah, like, the only major publisher we don't really deal with is dynamite just because they really get the comics gate thing and nfcs. But any other than that, listen to us. We love some independent comics and especially vault. We're big fans of vault now, which check out vault comics. I cannot plug them enough. They're amazing. And occasionally we do interviews and stuff, but that's really sporadic. It's when we really feel like we need to. So check us out and again on Twitter whipodcast, and I'll let Jose handle the rest of the plugs.

01:28:23
Josue
And I am the host to Jupuk's Vertigo, which is a music sharing, playlist building podcast where every episode it's a different theme and we all, and Keith is obviously there with me and we just come together and just share songs based on that category and then I add them to a public playlist and so everybody can enjoy it that way. And as far as social media, I'm on Twitter. Also at hostwayplays. No, hostway reads hostway. And sometimes you can catch me on Twitchway plays hostway.

01:28:52
Case
Nice, I gotta say. So in terms of, we have issues. I love how much you guys actually do go into those indie books. Like, it's so easy to get bogged down by the big two stuff and you save that for the very end. And it's been really great. Like, you guys really get in there for everyone. Like, you talk about source point, press like, friend of the show, my buddy Ben Goldsmith is a writer for them. And it's like, oh, yeah, it's fun to actually hear coverage about the company he's working for just because it's like, so easy to, like, you know, like I said, just get, you got image, like you got DC and you got Marvel, and then you have image and then you have everything else. And it's how it feels a lot.

01:29:28
Case
And it's like, very nice how much attention you give to all the people who are really trying to put good products out there.

01:29:33
Josue
And those people that are trying to try to put good products out there are the best books out there.

01:29:39
Keith
Yeah, some of the best books are. I would say the best. Top three books last year weren't made by DC marvelous. And our end of the year awards definitely reflected that when we did them because we do them by publisher, because we want every publisher to get a spotlight. It would be easy for X Men to beat everything in a vote. You know what I mean? So. So that's why we did it that way. And our hottest contested competitions were best indie book, best boom, book, and probably best vault. Yeah, I think it'd be the top three were the most competitive and that's the ones that got the most votes. So, I mean, that's what people are reading. You know that a lot of people are reading those books. And yeah, you're. If you don't, you're missing out. Like the.

01:30:18
Keith
Especially, again, I hate to. I'm not trying to get a job vault, I promise. But vault is strictly genre. It's horror, Sci-Fi fantasy. That's all it is. There's no superheroes and there's one superhero book, but it's not really a superhero book. And we talk about that our show. But yeah, check out independent comics. They're amazing and there's a lot of really good stuff. I wish we could buy more. We just don't have the money because we literally buy every comic we review. We don't get, we don't get advanced copies because it's literally like, what do we think is worth spending our money on? And also, another thing with our show, I know some people might not like this, but we don't do bad reviews.

01:30:59
Keith
If were to comic and really don't like it, we just don't talk about it because our goal is to tell you about things you should enjoy, not tell you not to enjoy things. So that's why we do it the way that we do it.

01:31:12
Case
So, yeah, and I really appreciate that positivity. Like, there's a lot of negativity out there. This podcast was founded because we wanted to have some positivity about Superman when our co hosts on scruffy nerve herders would just like, dump on him every chance they got. And we're like, and we had two choices. We could do a fuck Batman podcast or we could do man podcast. And I don't have that much of a, like a fuck Batman energy. Like, I might make a joke every now and then, but like, I just wanted to, like, spread the love and like, talk about stories that are fun and like, I hate dumping on a story if I can help it. So, yeah, I really appreciate your show.

01:31:47
Case
And I think comics fans who like that positivity because, like, you guys have gotten me to check out stuff that I wouldn't check out otherwise. And I really do appreciate, even if it's a thing that I don't have time to check out or my local comic shop isn't carrying it to still hear about it and just be tuned in. So, yeah, really love listening to you guys. Everyone should check you guys out.

01:32:06
Keith
Oh, that's awesome to hear, man.

01:32:07
Case
Thanks, j Mike. Where can people find you?

01:32:09
Jmike
I don't have anything as fun as that to follow it up with you. Just find me on Twitteraymike 10 one.

01:32:17
Case
You can find me on twitterace aiken. You can find the show at menofsteelpod. You can find episodes of this show@certainpov.com comma, with lots of other great shows. But today we're just going to be plugging. We have issues because, y'all, it's nice to have you guys back on. It's been too long. So check that out. But then head back over to certainpob.com dot. There's a link to our discord there. You can come. It's a great time. We're building a cool community. We're doing sneak peeks for upcoming shows. We're having chats about video games and all the fun pop culture buzz. So check that all out. But then, until next time, stay super Mandev.

01:32:52
Jmike
Men of steel is a certain POV production. Our hosts are J. Mike Folson and case Aiken. The show is edited by Matt Storm. Our logo is by Chris Bautista. Episode art is by Case Aiken, and our theme is by Jeff Moon.

01:33:11
Keith
Alright, Jose, let's go through our new comic day stack.

01:33:14
Case
We have a lot to review.

01:33:15
Josue
I know, maybe we've gone too far.

01:33:18
Keith
Let's see. Marvel, of course DC.

01:33:21
Josue
I got image. Dark horse.

01:33:23
Keith
Black mask. Boom. Idw.

01:33:26
Josue
Aftershock vault, of course.

01:33:28
Keith
Mad cave Pony, valiant scout, magma behemoth. Wow, that's a lot. Oh, all we need now is a name for our show. We need a name for a show about reviewing comic books every week. Something clever. The Natu club.

01:33:45
Josue
Like a pun. It's kind of cheesy.

01:33:47
Keith
Yeah, something that seems funny at first but we might regret later on as an impulsive decision. A few dozen episodes in.

01:33:53
Josue
Yeah, I would think of something.

01:33:54
Keith
Join Keith and Oswei for we have issues, a weekly show reviewing almost every new comic released each week. Wherever you listen to your podcasts.

01:34:04
Case
Cpov certainpov.com.